2009 Dodge 1500 with 5.7 Hemi: Shudders when accelerating (uphill/hwy and when in cruise control)

[shanonnew]

Hello all. Save everyone from the long story but hoping someone has solved for this before the dealership tries and take me for more money without diagnosing it.

Truck seems to shudder when accelerating uphill, when accelerating to get to hwy speeds, and when in cruise control. RPMs are around 1800 (and over) to experience this and can replicate the issue easily. Shudder is slight, easily noticed but does not cause any issue with driving. If I release the pedal or push to accelerate through it then it will stop shuddering and return to a very smooth drive. In all honesty the truck drives very strong and smooth other than this one issue.

I replaced the Throttle Body and air intake sensor. No improvement in the shudder. Rear strut assembly replaced, front ball joints and wheel beerings replaced, and tires rotated and balanced. Just doing everything possible to eliminate the easy stuff upfront that I knew needed done anyways. Decide to get a diag from the dealer which is when things started to go down a rabbit hole.

Dealer was/is convinced it is the engine. Mind you I was not throwing any error codes and would not necessarily describe it as a "miss" definitely more of a shudder. They told me it was cracked boots on the coil packs, replaced all boots and packs, and replaced the spark plugs. Issue still exists, seems almost worse. They noted that the machine did not pick up a miss and there were no carbon tracings on the plugs. At this stage I pressed for further diag and to consider the torque converter. They continue down the path of the engine and did the cylinder balance test, injector kill test, and inspected the balancer on the crankshaft - all good/pass - they were surprised, I was not. They are still almost defiant at this stage about considering the torque converter. Which fine, I may be wrong, but so far they have charged me $2,000 for diag and parts that ended up having nothing to do with the issue.

So, checking here to see if anyone experienced the shudder before and determined that something OTHER than the engine caused it. If so, what the final solve for it? All help appreciated. Thx!

 

[Burn2k12Ram]

To me sounds like the beginning stages of failed lifter eating into cam. Best way is to do oil analysis. That will tell you if internal engine issue.

 

[Burn2k12Ram]

I could be completely wrong though. My friend had a 2016 Ram that started with that issue and got noticeably worse before actually throwing the dreded missfire code to find out was lifter destroying cam. He traded that truck in

 

[pacofortacos]

I have seen a u-joint act like that during the early failure stage.

 

[BigRed06]

Have the oil checked out, I use this company for all my vechicals.

Blackstone Laboratories
416 East Pettit Avenue
Fort Wayne, IN 46806
260 744-2380 (8-5 EST)

Blackstone Laboratories

Learn what's going on in your engine with oil analysis. Our free kits are easy to use and we explain the results in plain English!

www.blackstone-labs.com

 

[socalexpeditions]

Oil analysis will help as others have said!

 

[LeeD]

Since the engine checks out so we’ll I’d definitely be looking at the transmission. I’ve had vehicles shudder like that and it’s always been the transmission.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Hello all. Save everyone from the long story but hoping someone has solved for this before the dealership tries and take me for more money without diagnosing it.

Truck seems to shudder when accelerating uphill, when accelerating to get to hwy speeds, and when in cruise control. RPMs are around 1800 (and over) to experience this and can replicate the issue easily. Shudder is slight, easily noticed but does not cause any issue with driving. If I release the pedal or push to accelerate through it then it will stop shuddering and return to a very smooth drive. In all honesty the truck drives very strong and smooth other than this one issue.

I replaced the Throttle Body and air intake sensor. No improvement in the shudder. Rear strut assembly replaced, front ball joints and wheel beerings replaced, and tires rotated and balanced. Just doing everything possible to eliminate the easy stuff upfront that I knew needed done anyways. Decide to get a diag from the dealer which is when things started to go down a rabbit hole.

Dealer was/is convinced it is the engine. Mind you I was not throwing any error codes and would not necessarily describe it as a "miss" definitely more of a shudder. They told me it was cracked boots on the coil packs, replaced all boots and packs, and replaced the spark plugs. Issue still exists, seems almost worse. They noted that the machine did not pick up a miss and there were no carbon tracings on the plugs. At this stage I pressed for further diag and to consider the torque converter. They continue down the path of the engine and did the cylinder balance test, injector kill test, and inspected the balancer on the crankshaft - all good/pass - they were surprised, I was not. They are still almost defiant at this stage about considering the torque converter. Which fine, I may be wrong, but so far they have charged me $2,000 for diag and parts that ended up having nothing to do with the issue.

So, checking here to see if anyone experienced the shudder before and determined that something OTHER than the engine caused it. If so, what the final solve for it? All help appreciated. Thx!

It's a shame that this industry has lost the artisans of yesteryear. The men, yes, I say "MEN" of the great generation who were my early male mechanic role models would not take a dime unless the vehicle was ACCURATELY fixed and/or diagnosed. These guys taught me and others that putting one's name on one's work was paramount in the work. It was a rite of passage to the moniker called "Master". We grasshoppers were well trained by these irreplaceable treasure troves of automotive acumen.

Today, people are WAY too avaricious. They worship the almighty dollar, make excuses/ justify charging for incorrect diagnosis, especially when the tools and equipment proliferate so's a guy CAN diagnose properly. On the flip side, there are those in the consuming public who are unwilling to pay for proper diagnosis.... and since you're 2 grand into this, I believe you really want it fixed.

I'd strongly recommend that you spend some time finding a non-Bozo to properly diagnose your issue. You can go onto the iATN website and (it's free) find a conscientious mechanic in your vicinity to properly diagnose your problem.

I get vehicles routinely from hundreds of miles away from Houston, because the vehicle's owner simply cannot find anyone capable to diagnose their problem.

One of my peers said recently that lack of training is a big issue. Be that as it may, it is greed of dealers and indie shop owners that drive these problems from a "hurry up and get to the next one" pressure. There is a reason that surgeons LOCK the damned doors to the operating room while they fix your innards. Since I give a sheet about people's safety and well being, I do not let pressure to "get to the next one" sway me for even a second.

Granted, I've lost customers who regard the importance to their car in the same realm as a garbage disposal, laundry equipment, etc. Oh well.

The training I got from WW2 and Korean War vets, along with the Rolls Royce master who mentored me when I was young and had hair is incalculable in terms of lifetime value.

I'm not the only one our here who has passion and caring about this as MY Profession. The earth shoe wearing low spark techs so rampant in dealers today make me feel a certain amount of sadness for the consuming public. But so do the folks (consumers) who have such hubris as to espouse low value to "meekaniks".

This is made crystal clear by the urban notion that somehow, a computer (scanner) can tell us what to fix.... yeah, right!
How's THAT one working out?

As to your shudder... there are several things which come to mind as to what is wrong. All of these things are easily diagnosed... with the HELP of tens of thousands of dollars in diagnostic equipment, AND diligence at least on my part (and others) to GET the training to use to their full potential these pieces of equipment.

 

[Jeepwalker]

I'm not there to feel the shudder, but is your truck acting differently than is used to? Or is it the same, just starting to annoy you?

It might be the normal transition of the Ram struggling to "decide" if it should stay in MDS (cylinder de-activation) mode or just coming out of the MDS. Wait ...do '09's have MDS mode? These trucks often shudder like that at that specific point, under certain conditions, like on an incline. Mine does that, always has. They all kind of do that. You'll read a lot of similar posts here if you do a search like what you described. Try repeating the drive on the same route, but take the tranny out of the Eco mode, or lock it in your truck's highest gear (manually). In other words Non-MDS mode. And see if it does the same thing. If not, then it's just the MDS doing what it does. GM's do that too. That's assuming your truck has MDS (cylinder deactivation).

If it's a new thing I'd start by inspecting all the plugs and replace if they need it. Clean the throttle body, clean (or replace) the MAF sensor, Ohm out the coils & make sure there aren't any cracks at the bottom where a spark could jump (Sounds like the dealer did this). Ohm out your trucks temp sensor (or look via a scanner when cold & hot) to ensure your Tk's temp sensor is reading accurately. A drifted temp sensor (and yours is an '09) can screw up the air-fuel programming enough to cause driveability issues. Replace with an OEM if it needs it.

PCV hoses can crack. ...kind of look over the basics which can cause driveability issues. On an 09, you might expect some hoses to get brittle and crack ...MAF sensor to weaken to the point of being 'barely good' ...things like that. I've had MAF sensors which their voltage was barely within the "good range" (but still technically in the low end of the good range), where replacing them with a new Bosch put it square in the good range & resolved operation problems. Try cleaning the MAF before replacing.

But first drive the same route with the tranny locked in it's highest gear (manually) which will keep it out of the MDS mode. It might be just the normal annoying MDS shudder we all feel, but amplified due to the hill.

 

[Sherman Bird]

I'm not there to feel the shudder, but is your truck acting differently than is used to? Or is it the same, just starting to annoy you?

It might be the normal transition of the Ram struggling to "decide" if it should stay in MDS (cylinder de-activation) mode or just coming out of the MDS. Wait ...do '09's have MDS mode? These trucks often shudder like that at that specific point, under certain conditions, like on an incline. Mine does that, always has. They all kind of do that. You'll read a lot of similar posts here if you do a search like what you described. Try repeating the drive on the same route, but take the tranny out of the Eco mode, or lock it in your truck's highest gear (manually). In other words Non-MDS mode. And see if it does the same thing. If not, then it's just the MDS doing what it does. GM's do that too. That's assuming your truck has MDS (cylinder deactivation).

If it's a new thing I'd start by inspecting all the plugs and replace if they need it. Clean the throttle body, clean (or replace) the MAF sensor, Ohm out the coils & make sure there aren't any cracks at the bottom where a spark could jump (Sounds like the dealer did this). Ohm out your trucks temp sensor (or look via a scanner when cold & hot) to ensure your Tk's temp sensor is reading accurately. A drifted temp sensor (and yours is an '09) can screw up the air-fuel programming enough to cause driveability issues. Replace with an OEM if it needs it.

PCV hoses can crack. ...kind of look over the basics which can cause driveability issues. On an 09, you might expect some hoses to get brittle and crack ...MAF sensor to weaken to the point of being 'barely good' ...things like that. I've had MAF sensors which their voltage was barely within the "good range" (but still technically in the low end of the good range), where replacing them with a new Bosch put it square in the good range & resolved operation problems. Try cleaning the MAF before replacing.

But first drive the same route with the tranny locked in it's highest gear (manually) which will keep it out of the MDS mode. It might be just the normal annoying MDS shudder we all feel, but amplified due to the hill.

You are ABSOLUTELY correct in your admonishment as to the basics. BUT! He PAID so-called professionals for that very consideration. Shame on them for NOT communicating that they DID go through those basics as well as provide a report as to which technical tests they ran with data as to the findings.

One very basic test I'd run using VERY sophisticated equipment is called a "NVH" analysis. This is a Noise/Vibration/Harshness diagnostic. What does this test do? It uses a tool which identifies the frequency of this "vibration/shudder", so the technician can refer to a chart of correlation as to which particular system or component is a participating element within that frequency (Read in Hz or Khz). This narrows down and directs the technician to eliminate, say, a defective torque converter, a misfire, a bad motor mount, etc. Scanners are NOT going to provide this diagnostic data, AND NVH equipment is an ESSENTIAL tool required by GM and Ford as my experience bears out. This tool among many are REQUIRED by the manufacturer for the dealer to have for technicians to be able to ACCURATELY diagnose beyond the basics.

Years ago, I worked at a mega Ford Dealer here in Houston. I was an automatic transmission specialist. This means that I had to have drivability skills to diagnose the "shudder" as a symptom in it's proper source to narrow down whether the trans had anything to do with the symptom.
A newbie heavy line powertrain tech came to me one day with a Mustang (then new under warranty). He was attempting to fix this car which happened to have a shudder in the 1200-2000 RPM range. This shudder was present both in the service bay with the car in "Park or neutral" as well as in gear (auto trans) going down the road.
He had replaced all the trans and motor mounts, the harmonic balancer, aligned the exhaust, the serpentine belt with it's tensioner and idler pulley. Non of his efforts helped at all.

I asked him if he'd done an NVH test on the car. He had not. So, he and I found the tool and hooked it up and drove the car. It turned out to have a bad torque converter. However, this "shudder" could have also been a bad COP coil or a bad spark plug, among other issues. So we put the scope on the secondary ignition and eliminated that as a problem.

Bottom line is that we used specialty tools to narrow down where the possible culprit was and, with me taking this greenhorn under my wing, taught him a very valuable lesson in "Pinpoint" diagnosis. It gave him direction as to the value of it as opposed to "shotgun" repair tactics (loading the parts cannon).

I had a Honda Accord EX in my shop a few years ago with a vibration in the car with the trans in "Drive" but not so much in neutral/park. This 4 cylinder V-Tec engine/ auto trans has 4 motor mounts on it. One of them is VERY expensive and employs a vacuum chamber operated by the PCM to address vibration. This expensive mount has a known pattern failure to cause this vibration.
I used my NVH tool and found one of the least expensive mounts to be the culprit; saving my customer money, and saving me time. The problem was fixed accurately the first time. This wouldn't be possible with out proper training and tools.

 

[Jim BB]

It's a shame that this industry has lost the artisans of yesteryear. The men, yes, I say "MEN" of the great generation who were my early male mechanic role models would not take a dime unless the vehicle was ACCURATELY fixed and/or diagnosed. These guys taught me and others that putting one's name on one's work was paramount in the work. It was a rite of passage to the moniker called "Master". We grasshoppers were well trained by these irreplaceable treasure troves of automotive acumen.

Today, people are WAY too avaricious. They worship the almighty dollar, make excuses/ justify charging for incorrect diagnosis, especially when the tools and equipment proliferate so's a guy CAN diagnose properly. On the flip side, there are those in the consuming public who are unwilling to pay for proper diagnosis.... and since you're 2 grand into this, I believe you really want it fixed.

I'd strongly recommend that you spend some time finding a non-Bozo to properly diagnose your issue. You can go onto the iATN website and (it's free) find a conscientious mechanic in your vicinity to properly diagnose your problem.

I get vehicles routinely from hundreds of miles away from Houston, because the vehicle's owner simply cannot find anyone capable to diagnose their problem.

One of my peers said recently that lack of training is a big issue. Be that as it may, it is greed of dealers and indie shop owners that drive these problems from a "hurry up and get to the next one" pressure. There is a reason that surgeons LOCK the damned doors to the operating room while they fix your innards. Since I give a sheet about people's safety and well being, I do not let pressure to "get to the next one" sway me for even a second.

Granted, I've lost customers who regard the importance to their car in the same realm as a garbage disposal, laundry equipment, etc. Oh well.

The training I got from WW2 and Korean War vets, along with the Rolls Royce master who mentored me when I was young and had hair is incalculable in terms of lifetime value.

I'm not the only one our here who has passion and caring about this as MY Profession. The earth shoe wearing low spark techs so rampant in dealers today make me feel a certain amount of sadness for the consuming public. But so do the folks (consumers) who have such hubris as to espouse low value to "meekaniks".

This is made crystal clear by the urban notion that somehow, a computer (scanner) can tell us what to fix.... yeah, right!
How's THAT one working out?

As to your shudder... there are several things which come to mind as to what is wrong. All of these things are easily diagnosed... with the HELP of tens of thousands of dollars in diagnostic equipment, AND diligence at least on my part (and others) to GET the training to use to their full potential these pieces of equipment.

Sherman I couldn't have said it better!