2014 hemi air intake?

[PJ1521]

Hey guys I'm new to forums but I've been looking at them for info for years. So I have a new 2014 5.7L Hemi in my Ram (Big Horn) and I am wondering what kind of a milage difference it makes to install an Air Intake &/or spacer, as well as an exhaust. Also, does doing any of these things void warranties? Just out of curiosity as well (if any one knows), Why did Chrysler separate RAM and DODGE?

 

[Talon_66]

Hey guys I'm new to forums but I've been looking at them for info for years. So I have a new 2014 5.7L Hemi in my Ram (Big Horn) and I am wondering what kind of a milage difference it makes to install an Air Intake &/or spacer, as well as an exhaust. Also, does doing any of these things void warranties? Just out of curiosity as well (if any one knows), Why did Chrysler separate RAM and DODGE?

No they wont void warranty.

The stock intake is very efficient, and an aftermarket exhaust is not much more then a noise maker.

If you buy an CAI and Catback for say $800 total, it will take you years of driving to see a return from the slight MPG gain

 

[WhiteExpress]

Welcome to RamForum.

There are mixed results with Cold Air Intakes / Exhausts.
I have never heard of a TB spacer being a useful addition to the Hemi trucks.

You'll get a marginal amount of top end added with a nice (S&B or Varram) intake and a replacement muffler (Mufflex etc). Day to day driving, you'll just have more tone to your truck. You MAY see a 1 or 2 MPG increase, but don't count on it.

The factory is doing a really good job with intake/exhaust these days, it's more for sound and braggin rights IMO.

 

[PJ1521]

Thank you guys. I kinda figured as much as this seems to be a typical response "not much gain" But i do appreciate your time and knowledge.

 

[JohnD72]

Don't forget, on those throttle body spacers - installing the manufacturer's sticker will double the horsepower gains.

 

[Heywood]

You'll get a marginal amount of top end added with a nice (S&B or Varram) intake and a replacement muffler (Mufflex etc). Day to day driving, you'll just have more tone to your truck. You MAY see a 1 or 2 MPG increase, but don't count on it.

Might get a little less mpg's once shut your MDS off. All depends on your exhaust system and if you eliminate the resonators by the tail pipes.


To the OP:

If your not going to put a tune in it, then the CAI isn't going to do anything. The ECM will re-learn and go back to the stock targets in your map. Your butt dyno may notice an advantage, but that will more than likely go away after 50 miles of driving.

Spacer = snake oil in Hemi's. A Ported throttle body is a better investment, but without tuning..... meh. Little advantage. Maybe better throttle response.

Buy the exhaust for what you like sound wise.

It's up to you. Your truck & your money. IMHO, unless you put a tune in it, your not taking advantage of the performance mods. (CAI & TB).

The tuner is the key to take advantage. Otherwise, just change the exhaust to what you want to hear and leave the rest alone until your comfortable with the thought of getting a tune for your truck.

Now, if you are thinking about a tuner down the road... then by all means, go ahead and change them to what you want. It won't hurt anything. Just know that your not going to get much difference performance wise until the truck has a proper tune in it.

 

[Casper]

A ported throttle body adds air flow. A TB spacer lightens your wallet for no performance gain at all.

Contrary to above, the factory intake is crap. It is designed for ease of vehicle assembly at the factory and noise mitigation--not air flow.

I really don't care whether anyone adds a CAI or not, but you would have to rip my S&B CAI from my cold dead fingers. I'd say the same about a Vararam if I had one.

Folk who bash CAIs are usually thinking about open noise makers like K&N or AFE--those aren't worth it unless you just want throttle noise to make your truck louder.

Exhaust from the factory is a big heavy muffler that is cheap wholesale and will outlast your rust warranty, but definitely costs you some power from weight and flow obstruction and does not have the best exhaust note.

Because of the catalytic converters, you don't have to worry about loosing low end torque from a more free flowing and better sounding muffler. The cats preserve enough back psi.

Ram is a nice OEM truck, but a CAI and exhaust are two of the best ways to personalize it without endangering your warranty at all.

 

[popcenator]

I noticed the difference between the cheaper tube open element intake I had and the Vararam I have now. The VR is definitely worth it.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

 

[-Arana-]

I have the Vararam Intake and in my opinion its worth it... I went to local racing shop where they brought in a stock 2014 Hemi 8 speed with the active grill shutters and Vararam themselves came in and dynoed it stock and then they installed the Vararam Intake and it added 16rwhp. The dyno machine was not giving accurate numbers do to the fact they did not have the 8speed program and they didn't put fans in the front to mock up the "air grabber" effect

 

[bmapes25]

I have a K&N with a throttle body spacer. Slight performance inhancer and it sounds badass whistling down the road


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[swargo]

Throttle body spacers are an absolute rip off, no gains what-so-ever. You need to understand where it is physically situated, where the fuel(!) is introduced to the combustion process, with this info and an understanding why throttle body spacers are used on older NA carburated engines you see precisely how $100+USD is a total waste of hard-earned cash.

In fact, if you can hear it making noise, it is actually impeding airflow by creating parasitic drag..

OEM throttle bodies on the 5.7/6.1 flow in excess of 900cfm. Aftermarket machined units that still retain the OEM butterfly and 80mm internal cross section are just as much a rip-off as throttle body spacers. Bigger in fact...because you pay more for the privilege of owning one.

In aerodynamic terms (I won't elaborate unless someone asks), the smallest cross-sectional area dictates maximum rate-of-flow. At 30Hg these devices are no different than the OEM (unmachined) units.

Surprise surprise...no one will tell you this though, but they will definitely take your money. The existing rhetoric (in print) is overwhelming and disgusting; the HP/TQ gains are fabricated. It is a well-known that one can put the bone stock HEMI on a dyno and by making a pull at 140-150F from a cold-start can show 20+ HP/TQ without touching or changing a single part or programming parameter compared one another run at or near heatsoak. Instant performance values have now(!) been generated for those unscrupulous enough to employ them in their advertising. Sounds harsh I know, but this is one of the realities of online buying.

Now the standard value used for OEM throttle bodies that have been machined, is 85mm. Five extra millimeters...if you look at the wall thickness of a cast throttle body, you will see with your own eyes this is impossible. So how do they come up with this value? Simple, and cheeky to-boot; if you look at a side cross section of a throttle body you will see that at idle the butterfly resides at ~10 degree angle off of vertical. The 85mm measurement is derived from the top roof of the inlet side of the throttle body butterfly to the bottom floor and backside on the outlet side. What makes this 85mm possible is the throttle bore is not a straight shot from front to back, it's offset(!) at the butterfly. Now I can't speak for you good folks, but personally I despise being ripped off. The absolute true maximum amount of diameter increase possible on these stock cast throttle bodies by machining is ~3mm. To me that means the bore has gone from 80mm to some value less than 84mm. Get your slide rule/calculator out and figure out the percentage increase over an OEM unit. Again...given the stock butterfly is still present along(!) with the surrounding 80mm (unmachined) wall area, it matters not. There is zero increase in rate-of-flow over an unmachined unit. The principles of fluid dynamics in closed-area apertures has not changed in over 100 years.

Now throttle bodies that have actually increased the I.D. along with a larger butterfly (new - billet bodies as opposed to the OEM cast units); again, no gains. Folks over on another Forum who are doing their own dyno testing are unfortunately finding this out. Without proper tuning the speed-density systems Chrysler employs on our platforms means the lower velocity present within the intake plenum forces the MAP sensor to O/P a value to the PCM that is not indicative of actual rate-of-flow.

The above statement only true if the another physical shortcoming has been addressed, that being the I.D. of the intake manifold itself. If the entrance to the manifold is smaller than the new larger I.D. throttle body, then there is no point even installing one.

Although no one does it, the composite (5.7) intakes can actually be machined (no more than 85mm I.D.), the 05' to 08' version's runner length/volume start impinging airflow above 5300rpm and are all done at around 5800rpm. The 09' (Eagle) composite intake is similar to the aluminum 6.1 in flowrate, but the 6.1's flange area can be easily machined out to 90mm, even 100mm. Add to this the plenum area can be accessed to modify the runner entrances as well as the exits at the cylinder head face make it possible to continue working up past 7K.

On those intakes where the flange area has been machined to accept a larger TB, the inherent algorythmns the PCM's employs to control A/F are now incorrect. Short/longterm fuel tables struggle to adapt/maintain 14.7:1 AFR's at anything below WOT. CMR tuning can compensate, but(!) that tuning is ironically mimicing the values that would be associated with...you guessed it...the OEM throttle body.

Again...900cfm is available with the OEM throttle bodies. Work out at what rpm the 6.1 or a stroked 392ci would be restricted by an aperture of 80mm I.D.

Finally, the extra (just off-idle) zip folks feel after installation of a machined throttle body occurs as a direct result of the butterfly opening to a point just off-idle where it crosses the demarkation between the OEM 80mm ID and the new larger cross section that has been machined into the front and rear portions of the OEM throttle bodies, the end-user interpretes this as new-found power. It's a placebo.

Because our vehicles employ electronic actuation of the throttle butterfly (as opposed to the traditional throttle cable), when the your foot depresses the throttle pedal and the PCM moves the butterfly an expected angle, all is well. But when it crosses that threshold I mentioned, extra air is suddenly consumed by the engine creating a momentary lean condition. THIS is the extra zest folks are feeling. The 02 sensors are (now) going WTF...they in turn immediately add extra fuel...but the lean condition has already passed. The ironic (and funny) thing is...the long term fuel tables eventually adapt to this anomaly...and the whole placebo-effect eventually disappears.

Save your money folks, there are other items out there for your HEMI that are actually effective at producing more HP/TQ than modified OEM TB's and TB spacers. There are lots and lots of 500+ RWHP HEMI's over on another forum that employ the OEM throttle body.

 

[swargo]

This is a quote ^^ sorry. Taken from a Charger forum. I would be inclined to take these statements as fact. It has been well know in the 5.7 world that ported throttle bodies are a waste on vehicles with basic bolt-ons. I was kind of shocked when I found the exact opposite rhetoric on here.

Nevertheless, to each there own.

 

[Heywood]

If your not going to put a tune in it, then the CAI isn't going to do anything. The ECM will re-learn and go back to the stock targets in your map. Your butt dyno may notice an advantage, but that will more than likely go away after 50 miles of driving.

The tuner is the key to take advantage.

Pretty much the same thing as I said.... but with less words

It has been well know in the 5.7 world that ported throttle bodies are a waste on vehicles with basic bolt-ons.

Nevertheless, to each there own.

I came over from the Challenger side for the last 4 years. I try to take from there to here as the engines are basically the same. Let someone else do the leg work and adapt it to my truck.

As for a TB being a waste of money? Time will tell. There are some differences between the Rams and the LX's. Intake, fuel rails, cam, and tune. That's the main reason the trucks have a higher rating than their 5.7 car cousins.

I just want to see how the TB works out. I lost more money on worse things....lol

 

[Hemi450hp]

swargo, I have to disagree with most of what you have copied and pasted from another forum. We have had TRUCK owners dyno anywhere from 8-18hp gains from a throttle body alone...even had 1 customer show 26hp on his independent dyno, but that number is so high that I am skeptical about his gains. We also have a handful of customers who have dropped anywhere from .1-.2 seconds off their 1/4 mile times by adding the throttle body. While the car and truck motors are similar, they are not the same and they do not respond the same to mods.

I have seen about 100 threads over the years that say the exact same thing about how a cold air intake does nothing, yet we continuously prove that wrong every time we go to the drag strip. Many guys will preach about what a textbook tells them should happen as apposed to what results we are actually seeing in real world situations on the track and at the dyno. There are internet racers, and then there are real racers. The guys going to the track often that truly want the best performance they can get all have an aftermarket intake and ported throttle body.

 

[swargo]

I completely understand your resentment to all what has been posted. I also never expected some who actually sells these products to agree. That would be silly.

I am in no way speaking as someone who has independently researched any of this. All I wished to present is the other side of a discussion. For instance, logic dictates that claims of increased airflow by a modified throttle body with the same 80mm bore at the butterfly cannot be true. And, as stated on your website, a true 85mm will sacrifice air speed, but for the sole reason that the machinery behind the throttle body does not have the capacity to use that extra airflow. If it did, a strait bore TB would not slow down the air speed, it would work as intended and increase airflow without sacrificing speed. It's in your own writing.

Nevertheless, I am not here to tell people not to buy your products. If you believe in them, spend your money on whatever it is you like. I am simple stating why I choose not to buy them.

 

[Hemi450hp]

The stock 80mm blade is there to keep the computer happy and prevent any engine codes. By increasing the size of the bore in front of the blade, we are letting more air in. We then taper it back down to 80mm at the blade which now causes that extra air to also increase in velocity. This means more air, moving faster through the blade, and that in turn results in the power gains I mentioned as well as the increased throttle response that most people feel with the TB as well.

Going to a true bore 85mm TB will move more air through the TB, but it will move slower which gives gains in the upper rpms, but creates a loss of tq in the lower rpms. The extra airflow coming in at idle also creates the very common high idle codes that are associated with these true bore TB's. This style of TB is more designed for the guys with boost or those that are spraying a lot of nitrous.

Our stance on business is that we will not sell a part to a customer that we would not use on our own vehicles. That is why we do not currently sell any of the TB spacers that are available. That part I do agree with you. Vararam has just designed and released a new spacer though that is far from the "swirl" spacers that are available now. It is a 3/4" tall smooth bore spacer that uses a very similar taper to what we do with our TB's. Like everything else, we told them that we would not offer them for sale until we had tested it ourselves and made sure that we were seeing the gains they claim. We are not in any way trying to sell a scam or push parts just to make a few dollars. We are more concerned with knowing each customer is happy with the part they buy than how much money we can make selling it. You don't build a business with repeat customers by selling junk, and that is why I feel so strongly about this. If these parts were not showing the gains that we expect, then we would not even offer them for sale.

Everyone is always entitled to their own opinion though, so no harm in you feeling that a TB is not right for you. That is why it is nice to have options with all the parts that are available.

 

[Heywood]

While the car and truck motors are similar, they are not the same and they do not respond the same to mods.

I have seen about 100 threads over the years that say the exact same thing about how a cold air intake does nothing, yet we continuously prove that wrong every time we go to the drag strip.

Agree.

I have seen a very noticeable improvement in the performance of my truck. Especially on the highway. There's some variables that can't be mimicked on a dyno. The air flow, IMO, has a ton to do with that.

I choose not to run a CAI on my car. The heat soak of the tube, and position doesn't justify the cost vs. benefit. I use a simple drop-in as there's more thought put into the design as it is geared towards performance. That's a reason that they are putting SRT8 air boxes on 5.7's in the LX forums. Same with putting SRT Shorty headers on 5.7's

If there was a similar design as the Vararam for my car, I would use that. Unfortunately, there's no room. I like the sealed breather above the TB.

I agree with not looking too hard at numbers from manufactures. They all have ways to bend the numbers in their favors on a dyno.

Even the dyno's make a difference, Dynojet vs. Mustang. Elevation as well. heat soaking, turning off fans and closing the hoods... more tricks to bend the numbers than I can think of.

I did enjoy the clip and paste post. Although I personally do not agree with everything that's there, I like the questions it brings up. I did have these same thoughts, coming from the Challenger side, before I mapped out the mods for my truck. I won't even change the rims unless they are lighter than the factory Alcoa's.

Makes me feel better about the choices I made with my mods. All 4 working together made a huge difference now that I've got some seat time with the set-up. (Vara CAI, TB, Exhaust, and Tuner/Tune). Last would be headers before getting into the engine.

Would I expect the same results on my car with the same mods? Doubt it. It's already designed for performance. Needs more than simple bolt-on's. The tuner and exhaust help.


Enjoyed the theory, but the practice and execution are different between the 2 worlds. (LX/Ram)

Just my personal opinion.... you need to tune it with these mods to get the full effect.

Lol...Heywood

 

[swargo]

You cannot increase the speed of the air passing through that 80mm diameter simply by enlarging the area in front of it. That only works if the pressure moving the air into the engine is coming from the inlet side of the TB (a forced induction system). The velocity of the air is not dictated by the size of the opening at the blade, or the conditions created in front of that, but by the atmospheric pressure acting against the vacuum created by the pistons intake stroke. That constant dictates how much area travels into the engine (through the biggest restriction in the induction system, of course). If the throttle body was the biggest restriction (smallest diameter) then a true 85mm TB would react in the exact opposite way that it does. It would result in the same air flow as an 80mm TB with more volume. And, as you state (and I assume have independently tested) the true 85mm TB slows down airflow. This can only mean that it is not the biggest restriction in the induction system, and therefore is futile to enlarge it. I cannot simply disregard the laws of physics because someone claims a product defies them.
I don't mean to sound like a jacka**, I apologize if it came off that way. And I don't want to get in a ******* match with a respected vendor. I can only state what I know to be fact, and I'll leave it at that.

 

[ddblackdout5.7]

You cannot increase the speed of the air passing through that 80mm diameter simply by enlarging the area in front of it. That only works if the pressure moving the air into the engine is coming from the inlet side of the TB (a forced induction system). The velocity of the air is not dictated by the size of the opening at the blade, or the conditions created in front of that, but by the atmospheric pressure acting against the vacuum created by the pistons intake stroke. That constant dictates how much area travels into the engine (through the biggest restriction in the induction system, of course). If the throttle body was the biggest restriction (smallest diameter) then a true 85mm TB would react in the exact opposite way that it does. It would result in the same air flow as an 80mm TB with more volume. And, as you state (and I assume have independently tested) the true 85mm TB slows down airflow. This can only mean that it is not the biggest restriction in the induction system, and therefore is futile to enlarge it. I cannot simply disregard the laws of physics because someone claims a product defies them.
I don't mean to sound like a jacka**, I apologize if it came off that way. And I don't want to get in a ******* match with a respected vendor. I can only state what I know to be fact, and I'll leave it at that.

I am an engineer and have to say that you are completely wrong. Here is the equation for you Density*Area*Velocity at inlet = Density*Area*Velocity at exit. Therefore if you increase the area at the inlet your exit velocity is going to increase. Density is going to remain constant so is inlet velocity and exit area. So increasing your inlet area has to increase exit velocity, since those are the only two variable remaining. These are basic fluid dynamics equations.

 

[grantmcw]

^^^Correct