2015 ram 1500 Lifter failure… dreaded

[Barr2255]

I’m new to the forum as far as posting goes…
Back story- I bought a certified pre owned ram 1500 5.7l hemi four years ago with 70k miles. Its a very clean truck. At 90k miles I started hearing a strange “light tapping” which brought me to these forums. I switched to redline 5w-30 and ran a KNN filter. The tapping subsided for about 10k miles then on a road trip home I noticed a weird vibration to the point I thought a wheel was ready to fall off. Pulled over, had it towed home and discovered a broken valve spring on driver side cylinder 3 intake.
Put back together and ran great. A year or so later it developed an exhaust leak from passenger side exhaust manifold at cold start at about 110k miles. After talking to a couple local shops and hearing quotes of up to $1k to replace the exhaust manifold gasket and drill out broken studs I took it upon myself. (I’m mechanically inclined and confident in my know how.) so I jacked up the truck pulled fender liner and pulled the manifold off, classic two broken bolts flush with the block at the back of the exhaust manifold. Welded on a couple nuts and the bolts came right out. Took probably 2 hours start to finish work wise. I did take the exhaust manifold to a machine shop to have them sand it on a table sander to make sure it was true. $50 for Dorman bolts and $50 to have the machine shop level the deck of the exhaust manifold, another $50 to get felpro exhaust manifold gaskets (both sides). Put back together and quite as a mouse and saved lots of money, the wife was happy. Now at 114k miles I started hearing a light tapping noise(most prominent on driver side wheel well), different than an exhaust leak. Tapping at hot idle not cold. Pulled valve cover on drivers side, all rocker clearances checked good no broken springs turned the motor over all springs compressed evenly. Put back together and told myself I’m not buying any parts until it throws a code.
I did put a few ounces of seafoam in to see if it would “loosen” up the “stuck” lifter. That did not work so changed the oil after running the seafoam for a bit and the noise persisted. After the fresh oil the noise was dang near identical but seemed to deminish at times.
Now fast forward a few weeks at 115k miles it started “chirping” yes chirping, like a slipping belt, and the same tapping continues. It seems to struggle when you rev the engine at idle but still no check engine. Its loud enough I’m not going to drive it any distance. But drivability as well as mileage seems fine.

So the weird things I noticed…. Hood open you can barely hear the tapping, but from drivers side wheelwell or underneath the truck it’s very present.

When under acceleration in the cab you can barely hear it but it’s there and the tapping becomes rapid (tied to RPM). The chirping noise is new as of tonight.

Idk if the lifter is failing or its a spun rod bearing. Its not knocking but rather a light tapping noise.

I checked with a hollow pipe all the areas on the drivers side. No noise from the valve cover itself, a solid tapping noise from the fron’t of the head and a loud tapping noise from the exhaust pipe cross over. Other than that everything is normal noise “whooshing oil and steady mechanical movement”.

I change the oil every 5k miles if not sooner most of the time 3500 miles, when I’ve had it apart the top of the head is spotless, I mean not even a bit of varnish.

What could this be? Does a collapsed lifter make a light tapping noise and chirp? Or is a chirping noise indicative of a “spun” bearing on the crank?

I’m leaving on a road trip (rental car) here soon so I will be tearing into the motor when I return. I will be sure to post pics and share what I learn when I pull the motor apart. If it’s bad lifters/ chewed up cam l’ll post pics of the disassembly and assembly if it’s a spun rod bearing I’ll still do the same but will most likely swap it for a crate engine.

 

[Barr2255]

So I returned from my trip and tore into the motor. Took about 5 hours to get both heads off (my first time doing this). Sure enough bad lifter on cylinder 3. Next weekend I will pull off front timing cover and document accordingly. I didn’t mention in my original post that I have been running redline 5w-30 as a preventive for the last 30k miles (way before this noise occured). With that said I’m sure it’s helped some people but regardless the lifter failed and with how much redline cost if you set that aside every oil change you will have the cash to either do it yourself or have someone make the repair for you. I’ve had multiple vehicles run 200k miles plus with just Mobil 1 and KNN oil filter with no major issues. So $40 vs $140 per oil change. I will say where I’m located the summers are consistently 100 degrees every day so I will continue to run 5w-30, 5w-20 is like water in these operating temps especially towing or driving in hill areas. I had 1 lifter that was completely damaged. See picture. The rest had wear and some had weird scoring marks. I’m more inclined to believe the camshaft is a bigger issue than the lifters. I know some of you will disagree but either way we know these engines are ticking time bombs when it comes to this issue regardless of the maintenance or what oil you use. Some people get lucky probably the majority but yet here we are.

At the end of the day I know this truck is way more capable than my brother in laws 2015 f-150 since we deer hunt together and he frequently leaves his truck behind to jump in mine after pulling him out of the mud on multiple occasions. I love this truck and hope to see 300k out of it like most of my other vehicles in the past.

 

[Wild one]

The other option is maybe Redline gave you that extra 30,000 miles,who's to say if it wouldn't of went south 15 or 20,000 miles ago on a lower level oil.

 

[Barr2255]

This is true, it very well could have.

 

[ramffml]

It's also why I also suggest running premium oils immediately when you get your truck (brand new is best!), not when the tick starts to sound. The damage might have been started well before you changed over to redline and oil choice can only do so much.

Tick aside, we also can't quantify how much longer an engine might run on better oils. You want to have this truck for years, a premium oil is a great first step so the additional cost of running redline over mobil 1 (your choice of oil) gets lost in the TCO of the truck.

Very unfortunate but you appear to have the skills to fix this so you have a leg up on many of us keyboard warriors, I change my fluids and some other basic maintenance but I can't tear into an engine; no garage, no tools, no time, and to date no skills in that area.

Since I'd be paying a garage to fix my tick, that changes the balance of your argument as well and tips it in favour of running premium oils; it would cost me many thousands to fix a tick, an extra $30 to $50 twice a year to run a more premium oil is absolutely nothing against that risk of paying a garage to fix it.

 

[Daniel from Texas]

So I returned from my trip and tore into the motor. Took about 5 hours to get both heads off (my first time doing this). Sure enough bad lifter on cylinder 3. Next weekend I will pull off front timing cover and document accordingly. I didn’t mention in my original post that I have been running redline 5w-30 as a preventive for the last 30k miles (way before this noise occured). With that said I’m sure it’s helped some people but regardless the lifter failed and with how much redline cost if you set that aside every oil change you will have the cash to either do it yourself or have someone make the repair for you. I’ve had multiple vehicles run 200k miles plus with just Mobil 1 and KNN oil filter with no major issues. So $40 vs $140 per oil change. I will say where I’m located the summers are consistently 100 degrees every day so I will continue to run 5w-30, 5w-20 is like water in these operating temps especially towing or driving in hill areas. I had 1 lifter that was completely damaged. See picture. The rest had wear and some had weird scoring marks. I’m more inclined to believe the camshaft is a bigger issue than the lifters. I know some of you will disagree but either way we know these engines are ticking time bombs when it comes to this issue regardless of the maintenance or what oil you use. Some people get lucky probably the majority but yet here we are.

At the end of the day I know this truck is way more capable than my brother in laws 2015 f-150 since we deer hunt together and he frequently leaves his truck behind to jump in mine after pulling him out of the mud on multiple occasions. I love this truck and hope to see 300k out of it like View attachment 550373View attachment 550374View attachment 550375most of my other vehicles in the past.
View attachment 550372

I have a 2014 Ram and last August I replaced the cam and lifter, also the oil pump (it had 192k) and only use Mobil One. If the lifter is gone, the cam has to be replaced, it is definitely damaged. I would drop the pan and use a high powered magnet to look for any metal in the pan. The whole job should cost less than 2K. You can get the lifters (OEM) online and save, the cam (I bought ) straight from Ram and the complete gasket set wasn't that much. I also replaced the water pump, had it off and didn't want to have to tear it apart again just for that.

 

[Barr2255]

Dropping the pan in my truck is pretty difficult according to the forum since I have a 4x4. But once I have the front timing cover off I will have a bit of access to the front of the pan so I will stick my wand magnet in there and fish around. Also I’ll pour a bunch of fresh oil to try an flush it as best as possible. Not sure if I want to tackle oil pump but will decide once I’m in there, I can use my bore scope to look at pick up screen to ensure it’s clean of debris.
I think it’s also worth noting in my case my motor only tapped for about 15 miles before the ticking turned from a very light tapping to a loud tapping and chirp.
I plan on replacing water pump as well. They are cheap and I much as I like wrenching not something I want to have fail 10k miles from now. I plan on pulling the front timing cover tomorrow and will post pics. Placing order tonight for oem cam and lifters.

Does anyone have any input on felpro headgaskets? I’ve always been happy with felpro but not sure about their head gaskets also thinking about getting their head bolts as well. I know ARP is the top of the line head bolts but for stock applications is the price point really nessacary?

 

[Barr2255]

@ramffml

I guess it could of been damaged prior… that’s a big assumption of course. I bought it as a certified pre owned, 1 owner prior. Your right though, who knows how it was taken care of. I do know though to be certified pre owned he never broke warranty while having ownership which means all services and recalls were completed.

I’m not arguing that redline is a great oil and has helped many people. I just don’t think it’s a magic oil that makes engines better than they were designed. Mobil 1 is considered a premium oil and has served many more engines and many more severe applications very well and longer than redline oil ever has or ever will.

I’m not going to get into the topic of ester based or semi synthetic group 4 or group 5 oils, thats been beat to death in plenty of other forms.

I will say I have an infiniti g37 thats speced for a high ester based oil. I’ve only run Mobil 1 in that engine since 20k miles and it has 120k. I got it when I was 19, I can assure you that motor has been beat on harder than most people have used their trucks on this forum and to this day I still haven’t seen a check engine light. I can happily say the “stunt” driving is way behind me these days as I have a wife and kids. But my point is a hemi isn’t speced for a high ester based oil but the Infiniti is and hasn’t had an issue without…. Yet… lol

The point is the hemi has a design issue, rather it’s the camshaft being placed higher in the motor, the camshafts having improper heat treatment or the lifters being inferior. No oil will ever help or fix a design issue.

I can understand running redline this post isn’t to dog it but to try an shine some light on a topic that has many variables and to share my experience and my opinion.

I am very blessed to be able to have the space, tools, and desire to pull an engine apart. When this noise first occured my wife said “can’t you just put some thicker oil in and trade it to a dealer” I said heck no I’m not pawning this off on someone that either can’t afford it or doesn’t know how or have the ability to fix it when I do.

I’m a licensed engineer here in Comifornia and grew up with sprint cars in my garage holding the light for my dad so repairs are right up my alley. With that said no I wouldn’t try an work on an Audi or Mercedes lol.

 

[Ken226]

Alot of guys here, maybe the majority even, recommend running higher viscosity oils to reduce the chances of lifter failure, hemi tick, and other issues.

While this is the more common school of thought, there are others as well. I neither agree nor disagree with it, but have been curious enough to research it. I've been using the manufacturer recommended viscosity in my Ram 5.7 and my Wifes Durango Citadel 5.7. I'm @ 90,000 with no issues, and her Citadel is at 110,000. Granted, those mileages are low enough that it doesn't tell anyone much.


The more common school of thought is that the thicker oil works better.

The other is that the thinner oil splashes onto the cam better, flows down better, etc. Also, the hydraulic lifters were designed for 5w20, so thicker oil changes the lash and results in harsher interaction between the cam and lifter.


Here is a screenshot from this webpage: https://jalopnik.com/chrysler-built-hemi-engines-with-a-major-engineering-de-1842400890 ,

about 5/8 of the way down the article:







Thoughts?

Don't shoot the messenger. I neither agree nor disagree with his assessment. I research things via google the same as you guys, and make decisions accordingly.


A poll would be interesting. Maybe a poll of those who have had a lifter **** the bed, to gauge the percentage of them running 5w20 vs 5w30.

 

[Hemi395]

Dropping the pan in my truck is pretty difficult according to the forum since I have a 4x4. But once I have the front timing cover off I will have a bit of access to the front of the pan so I will stick my wand magnet in there and fish around. Also I’ll pour a bunch of fresh oil to try an flush it as best as possible. Not sure if I want to tackle oil pump but will decide once I’m in there, I can use my bore scope to look at pick up screen to ensure it’s clean of debris.
I think it’s also worth noting in my case my motor only tapped for about 15 miles before the ticking turned from a very light tapping to a loud tapping and chirp.
I plan on replacing water pump as well. They are cheap and I much as I like wrenching not something I want to have fail 10k miles from now. I plan on pulling the front timing cover tomorrow and will post pics. Placing order tonight for oem cam and lifters.

Does anyone have any input on felpro headgaskets? I’ve always been happy with felpro but not sure about their head gaskets also thinking about getting their head bolts as well. I know ARP is the top of the line head bolts but for stock applications is the price point really nessacary?

This video goes over how to remove the pan on a 4x4 truck.

2014 Ram 1500 4x4 5.7 Oil Pan Replacement

Continued work on this Ram, now the oil pan.

youtu.be

I haven't used any Felpros on my truck but I've used them over the years and I've always had good luck with them.

 

[Barr2255]

That’s a very good point, I’m more interested in real world situations than what is on paper, as real world imparts countless variables.

It’s so interesting thinner oil flows better and may cover better but does it cling as well? Thicker oil may cling better but doesn’t splash as well. So many variables lol

The lash is a good point, thicker oil would cause more of a harsh enviroment for the lifter especially in cold climates.

I can say in my truck when I got it… whatever the oil the dealer had put in it, the oil pressure was 48- 50 or so while cruising at highway speeds and at idle would drop to 28 or so. My first oil change was Mobil 1 5w-30 because I’m a bit old school and had surfed the forums after purchasing and that was general consensus… oil pressure went up to 53-56 while cruising and 34-38 while idling. MPG were reduced by about 1mpg average (I know highly variable) but non the less it was pretty consistently lower. Next oil change and from that point forward switched to redline 5w-30 for many thousands of miles (changed based off following the forum here) mpg dropped another 2mpg on average but also added the camper shell so maybe that had an impact. Oil pressure was substantially increased 56-63 at highway speed and 43-48 while idle.

With that said PSI is not nessacarily a measure of volume of flow but a measure of resistance. Redline 5w-30 is inherently “thicker” than a standard 5w-30.

It’s all interesting stuff. I’m glad your rigs are doing well.

 

[Ken226]

Oil pressure was substantially increased 56-63 at highway speed and 43-48 while idle.

With that said PSI is not nessacarily a measure of volume of flow but a measure of resistance. Redline 5w-30 is inherently “thicker” than a standard 5w-30.

It’s all interesting stuff. I’m glad your rigs are doing well.

If i'm not mistaken with regard to the 3rd gen Hemi, the oil pressure would be mostly irrelevant when it comes to the prevalence of cam/lifter failures anyway, as the cam, lifters and roller needle bearings are entirely lubed by splash from the crankshaft and from oil flowing back down through the lifters and lifter bores.

I tend to switch back and forth between the large and small diameter Mopar oil filters, depending what Oreilly's has in stock at the time. I've noticed though that with the small filter I get 25-27 psi hot idle, and about 55 at highway speeds. With the large diameter filter I get about 35 hot idle and 60-65 at highway speeds.

Kinda odd, and i'm not sure how the filter is causing the difference, but i does seem to be.

 

[Barr2255]

That is interesting, not sure what the size of the filter would have to do with regarding oil pressure but that is the kind of stuff I find interesting and love to hear about.

In regards to the crank splash oiling the camshaft I agree that’s the majority of the oil that lubricates the camshaft. With that side I learned a lot when pulling the heads and running the truck with the valve cover off prior to disassembly. Oil gets pumped out of the rockers and squirted on the valve springs. So I still don’t know… does the oil travel up through the push rods to squirt the springs? Then it obviously drains back down…

Also something else I noticed when pulling the lifters, the front lifters closest to the front of the motor had a light coat of oil, the rear lifters were absolutely drenched in oil. In my case the lifter that failed was right in the middle and had a decent amount of oil on it. Even sitting over night and into the next day by the time I actually pulled it out of the block.

Thinking out loud, in my case oil amount shouldn’t of been an issue for the lifter that failed. I’m more curious at this point if it was the camshaft that had more of an issue. Other lifters I pulled (the ones drenched in oil, towards the rear of the motor) had some weird scoring marks on the roller bearing. It will be interesting to see the cam when I pull it tomorrow.

 

[Wild one]

Wonder how he explains the 6.4's calling for a 40 weight oil then,or how he'd explain this note in the 700 page printed manuals.

 

[Barr2255]

The article did say a 10w-30 type oils would would be thicker at a colder temp like cold starts. A 0w-40 would be thinner at cold starts and act “heavier” under severe conditions like flooring it often which we can all relate to every fully decked out challenger that passes us at 100mph +. Also for the the trucks it’s assumed they are being used as such, “work” trucks. Plus I could imagine being a heavier truck 2500 series and greater their oil temps would be hotter by nature. I think that’s the intention behind the heavier weight speced. I do find it interesting though because once you start making those big spreads like 0w-40 that oil isn’t performing great at either of those drastic swings but it’s capable of performing at them it doesn’t mean it’s great though.

Remember a 5w-30 or any of the like are created from a standard weight with modifiers to help it behave differently at different temps. Key word “behave”.

Just my 2 cents and how I interpret.

 

[Ken226]

Wonder how he explains the 6.4's calling for a 40 weight oil then,or how he'd explain this note in the 700 page printed manuals.

Don't the 6.4 engines use 0w40? Is that thicker or thinner than 5w30?

I looked it up and the 6.4 uses 0w40, and it says it "must" meet ms12633 standard. I'm not sure what that means either.

ETA: After spending some time reading up on 0w40 ms12633, it looks like the most relevant feature may be something added to improve "cold cranking pumpability".

 

[Wild one]

The article did say a 10w-30 type oils would would be thicker at a colder temp like cold starts. A 0w-40 would be thinner at cold starts and act “heavier” under severe conditions like flooring it often which we can all relate to every fully decked out challenger that passes us at 100mph +. Also for the the trucks it’s assumed they are being used as such, “work” trucks. Plus I could imagine being a heavier truck 2500 series and greater their oil temps would be hotter by nature. I think that’s the intention behind the heavier weight speced. I do find it interesting though because once you start making those big spreads like 0w-40 that oil isn’t performing great at either of those drastic swings but it’s capable of performing at them it doesn’t mean it’s great though.

Remember a 5w-30 or any of the like are created from a standard weight with modifiers to help it behave differently at different temps. Key word “behave”.

Just my 2 cents and how I interpret.

Oil viscocity is measured at 212 degrees,so an advertised 0W-40 should be a 40 weight at normal operating temps,load has nothing to do with it,as the car 6.4 also calls for a 40 weight

 

[Ken226]

I noticed in that Dr. guys article above, he specified "under certain operating conditions". I wonder if perhaps the viscocity @ 212 isn't the temp where the lash issue may occur, but under some other condition.

Since the 6.4 uses 0w40, but it "must" be ms-12633 certified, and the one feature of ms-12633 that effects the Cam/lifters seams to be it's "low temperature pumpability",

i was looking up the spec sheets of the oils mentioned, just to see under what specific condition does 0w40 more closely match 5w20, and deviate most from 5w30.

The below spec sheets are from Schaeffer Oil.

So, here is 0w40 ms-12633. The Cold Crank Viscosity is 4347:

https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/316-9040-td.pdf

I'll compare that 0w40 ms-12633 that the 6.4 Hemi uses to spec sheets from the common 5.7 oils, 5w20 and 5w30.


Here is Shaefer's 5w20 spec sheet. The Cold Cranking Viscosity is 4582. The number is a little higher than the 0w40 ms-12633. Anyone know if higher means thicker or thinner? Either way, it's so close that it probably doesn't matter:

https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/254-9004-td.pdf

Now comparing the 0w40 ms-12633 to 5w30 for the same Cold Cranking Viscosity. So, if 5w30 has a Cold Cranking Viscosity of 5104, it seems to more significantly diverge from the 0w40 ms12622's CCV of 4347. So, does 5104 mean that 5w30s CCV is significantly thicker than the 0w40 and 5w20? If so, does that mean that it would effect the lifters lash more at low temps, and maybe flow more slowly down to the needle bearings? At low temps, until it warms up.

https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/247-9003D-td.pdf

Since the 5w30 has a higher cold cranking viscosity number than the other two, i'm assuming that higher is thicker. Still not sure though.


Or, maybe I'm reading that backwards and it means the opposite. Or nothing at all.

 

[Wild one]

He also mentions oil being fed to the lifters roller bearings,the only lifters that feed oil to the bottom of the lifter and it's bearings are Johnson lifters,stock lifters and the majority of aftermarket lifters don't feed any oil to the bearings.

You missed copying this

Though not familiar with the Hemi’s MDS, Randolph says he doesn’t think the cylinder deactivation system is playing a role based on what he’s seeing here. In addition, both he and the R&D engineer don’t think this failure should lead to a bent pushrod, though Randolph did add that it could happen if “the lash increases sufficiently for the pushrod to be displaced from the cup in either the lifter or the rocker arm. Once displaced, the pushrod could easily become overloaded and bend.” That’s what I think happened, but that’s just a guess.

 

[Wild one]

After reading the article,there's no real facts other then from Steves Machine,the rest is all speculation.
Throw in the fact they go from 5W-20 right to 10W-30,with no mention of using a 5W-30
Burla posted Steves article several years ago