2018 Power Wagon - I need some ideas for better performance

[Down the Tubes]

So.....Now that I've recovered from Christmas and buying a Power Wagon......
I love everything about the truck, except for how slow it is on the highway and in town.

2018 Power Wagon
Fully loaded, with every option
4" BDS lift (some people crap on it, but that's what the truck came with)
37" Nitto Trail Grappler tires
XD Custom Wheels (too pretty still, not enough scratches yet)
-24 Wheel Offset
Pedal Commander (without this, I would have sold the truck already.....)

I've been reading a lot of forum threads about exhaust, gearing, and one guy suggested a torque converter change.

I don't need a dragster or hot rod, but I definitely need to be able to pass people going uphill.
Currently, the truck doesn't downshift very well, which I understand is part of the problem with the 6 speed transmission........

Here are my questions:
1. Gearing - If I re-gear, does this affect the high end speed (occasional freeway driving)
- How badly does this affect fuel mileage

2. Exhaust - I've been reading about Cat Delete/long headers voiding the warranty
- Do short headers and Cat Back exhaust actually make a difference?
- I don't even have 5,000 miles on the truck yet so I don't want to void the warranty yet
- What is the best bang for buck setup

3. Torque Converter - How much power/proper shifting is gained?
- I don't have the space or tools to drop the transmission, so I would have to pay someone to do this

4. What else should I think about

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

 

[Travelin Ram]

IMO nothing you mentioned other than gears is worth doing.

Most mods only give you minimal gains in one particular rpm or load situation while decreasing power or torque in some other area of the power curve. Which is not conducive to a better all around daily driving experience.

Proper gearing will optimize your power AND fuel economy, I’m sure you’re not getting great mileage now. Of course with a PW, you never will!

 

[Down the Tubes]

IMO nothing you mentioned other than gears is worth doing.

Most mods only give you minimal gains in one particular rpm or load situation while decreasing power or torque in some other area of the power curve. Which is not conducive to a better all around daily driving experience.

Proper gearing will optimize your power AND fuel economy, I’m sure you’re not getting great mileage now. Of course with a PW, you never will!

I'm told that it's all about the "Smiles per gallon......"

What gear ratio would you recommend?
I was reading about Mopar replacement gears and how they potentially do not void the warranty.
I'll have to look that thread up again.

 

[Travelin Ram]

Well, that’s subjective to some degree. My approach on regearing for tires is to first decide on what ratio would I prefer in a given vehicle all stock. Then adjust up by the percentage change in tire diameter. And pick the next common ratio higher than that, assuming the calculation doesn’t hit dead on an available ratio.

So, question 1, would a six speed PW be ideal with the 4.1, or would you prefer something different? For me, I’d probably go with 4.56 as an ideal for stock.

Q2 how much change in tire? 37/33 is a 12% increase. So parity in my example would be 4.56 x 1.12 = 5.11. So I’d probably go with either 5.13, or if I felt I wanted more off road bias or towing ease I’d move up to 5.38

Now an unexplored question is what gears are actually available, and are they from quality vendors you trust?

Also, I usually break out a spreadsheet and get out the specs for the transmission in question, and calculate approximately what the RPM will be at common operating speeds, and how that compares to the current situation. Strictly as a supposition, say you’re designing for a rig that’ll run 2800 RPM @ 70 mph in top gear. So what gear (3rd, 4th...) in the current situation will most closely simulate that? Figure it out, and go for a drive, limiting the trans to that gear. Why? Because you’re looking to get a feel for what it’s like, and in particular any issues with resonance or vibration. The last thing you want to do is end up with a situation where your daily commute makes you spend 2 hours at 2650 RPM and that coincidentally is an unpleasant rev range to operate in.

Yeah, it’s a lot more work than just taking my recommendation or anyone else’s. But you’re going to spend a lot of money. Measure twice, cut once.

 

[SeppW]

I don't understand how it could be a dog. it's a HD truck and not meant for burning up the road. Perhaps the Raptor or Ram TRX is better suited for your need. My truck is pretty much stock except for Ported 87MM TB, MagnaFlow catback, and a Green filter n stock air box, It gets on down the road when mashing the gas; granted, I'm still running the OE 33s and 4.10:1.

In your case, I reckon the 37s are driving the RPMs down if you're still running 4.10:1. My throttle response is pretty instantaneous too.

Did the dealer reprogram the transmission? I assume the lift and tires were dealer add-ons.

Re-gearing is not cheap, depending on your disposable income, and finding someone that knows what they're doing is required. I had 2 gears swaps in other vehicles done over time, one a dealer and another at an alleged competent axle shop and both jobs were botched. Probably another $3-5K after it's all said and done for re-gear, depending on where you're at.

I read ProCharger has forced induction kit for these HD 6.4L now. They're claiming 530+ HP is possible, but does require a PCM swap and tune, maybe headers. Plus you need to run premium gas to get those gains. Pretty much bolt on. Would it void warranty? Who knows. You can bet it ain't cheap either. I'm thinking at least $8-10K just for the kit, add installation if you don't DIY. For a little more you could drop a Hell Cat crate engine in and have one bad ass PW or at least bragging rights.

 

[Down the Tubes]

Travelin Ram,
That makes a lot of sense. I started paying attention to rpm's and gears today.
I did notice that it performs much better if I lock the top gear at 4 when going up hill.
I work about 15 miles from my house, but it's up hill from here.
I'm never in the right gear/rpm range to pass anyone if I just put the truck in Drive.

I had to work on the transfer case linkage today. I had to build my own out of aftermarket Jeep parts because the dealer royally F'd it up.....
I had removed both of the rubber bushings, which caused a rattle at 2,000 rpm in the shifter. I changed that up this afternoon.
When I took it out for a test drive, I started messing with the gears and keeping it at 4 or lower.
The truck seems to shift much better like this for some reason, maybe it's just me.


SeppW,
I test drove a Raptor for about 2 minutes before I got the PW. The dealer was such a jerk, and I didn't get a good test drive.
He let me drive it to a neighbor lot where they keep their stock. What a ****. I would have bought it if I had been able to drive it and liked it.....
I live on an island, it costs a lot to go anywhere and test drive things.

The dealer did use a HyperTech to recalibrate the speedometer for 37's. Not sure what else, if anything, was done.
I am still running stock 4.10:1 gears.
I don't mind spending the money on gears. Just want to make sure that I am not wasting money.

I think that I really would have liked a stock truck more, but my wife REALLY liked the lifted Power Wagon that we bought.
I had to explain to our oldest son that his mom talked me into buying a "Compensator."


I guess my thing is, the truck looks mean as hell, but doesn't have the balls to back it up if that makes sense.


I would love to have better throttle response and more zip when I need it.
It's not gutless, but more like confused and timid at times.......
Thank you guys for your input!

 

[Rick Ram-jet]

GEARS! Probably 5:13`s w/37`s
Plus, try a drop-in K&N filter and see how she feels!

 

[Meister]

Supercharger

 

[Down the Tubes]

GEARS! Probably 5:13`s w/37`s
Plus, try a drop-in K&N filter and see how she feels!

I was just re-reading this thread: https://www.ramforum.com/threads/37-mts-with-which-gear-4-88-or-5-13.126016/
OEM 5.13 gears from AAM
I'll try to locate them tomorrow

Page 2 & 3 show the part numbers, thank you WY.Ram!

 

[Down the Tubes]

Supercharger

My son and I were talking about that when we were test driving this afternoon! One of these days we just might do that!

I can't believe that I only have 3,900 miles on it and I'm thinking about spending $5k at a time instead of paying it off......
Guess you only live once!

 

[BigLazer4u]

Add a X pipe and a dual exhaust, my 19 wagon hauls ass with 35’s not sure why yours is slow up a hill....

 

[SeppW]

The Islands? I'm surprised they even have Power Wagon shipped there. I can imagine what the mark up would be. Lariat trim with all options is pushing 70K on the mainland. I'm at O'ahu 3 or 4 times a year and a Power Wagon sighting is indeed a rare occurrence.

 

[Down the Tubes]

Add a X pipe and a dual exhaust, my 19 wagon hauls ass with 35’s not sure why yours is slow up a hill....

I think the lift and 37's has a lot to do with it.
It's not that the truck is slow when I wind it up, it's just that it takes a lot to wind it up.

The Islands? I'm surprised they even have Power Wagon shipped there. I can imagine what the mark up would be. Lariat trim with all options is pushing 70K on the mainland. I'm at O'ahu 3 or 4 times a year and a Power Wagon sighting is indeed a rare occurrence.

There are about 6 Power Wagons on Maui.
I got mine from a dealer in Burlington, WA.

I really love the truck, just wish it had more get up and go.
My son is always telling me that I should have bought a Raptor instead, but I just don't like Ford very much.

 

[ALRedneck]

Those tires are 50 percent heavier than the stock tires. That’s eating up a lot of power to turn. Realistically, those tires will perform much better on a diesel truck that has significantly more torque if turning them fast is what you want. Would be cheaper to move over to a diesel than trying to make the gas engine more powerful.

 

[Down the Tubes]

We have a diesel truck as well, I definitely agree that it has WAY more power. I like the way gas drives better for here. No chance of long trips, the island is only 74 miles across. Plus, diesel is hard to find, there are only 2 stations that sell it up the mountain. If we go down to sea level, there are plenty of stations, but it's 25 minutes out of the way. If I lived on the Mainland (one day I will!), I would definitely have a diesel as my daily driver!

I'm not looking to turn the truck into a hot rod, just looking for better passing and more power on demand.

I keep reading about CAI, Cat Back, etc., and it seems like there is no real answer with those items.
Some people claim that they don't work. Some people claim that they are the best things in the world.
I just want to be able to pass people and get out of the way if I need to.

 

[62Blazer]

One thing to keep in mind that when the OP states the truck is slow or has no power that is all subjective based on what they feel it should be, or what they are comparing it to. Not saying they are wrong but it is their personal opinion.

The first thing I would say is to make sure that the ECM has been correctly reprogrammed for the larger tires. Going from 33" to 37" tires will cause transmission shifting issues, mainly shift points. I know the OP stated the dealership reprogrammed this but I would double-check that. The second thing is that even if the ECM is reprogrammed the tires and lift are still adding a significant amount of stress (or power requirements) to move the truck around. The tires are larger diameter so it takes more power/leverage to move them plus the are heavier....they are also rotating mass which is worse. Adding 200 lbs. in the bed of the truck is nothing, but adding 200 lbs. of rotating mass (i.e. tires and wheels) can make a big difference. The lift kit is increasing the aerodynamic drag on the truck.

Based on the above and the use of the truck (doesn't sound like any long road trips!) I think that regearing the axles would be the best thing to do. It is the biggest investment in dollars but you will actually be able to feel the difference. I would also invest in some sort of tuner that will enable you to adjust the gear ratio and tire size. Second thing would be a custom engine tune from somebody like Hemifever.

From my personal experience with my '16 PW I really don't have any complaints on the transmission shifting. I ran it with the stock 33's and then upgraded to a heavier and more aggressive 35" tire. Both empty and pulling a smaller 4,000 lb. trailer I thought the transmission shifted fine. When pulling the small trailer it will downshift into 5th fairly soon, which is to be expected, and on a longer and steeper hill on the freeway it might hit 4th. I mean, when you started pulling a grade or gave it gas to pass a vehicle it downshifts.....I have seen people complain about their transmissions and when test driving them the complaint was that they did downshift in those situations. Seems like some people thought the transmission shouldn't have to downshift??? Also have to ask, but the OP is giving it more gas when going up hill, right??

Another question the OP asked was how axle gears affect top speed. If you calculated it out on paper than putting lower axle gears (higher numerically) would lower your top speed, you would still hit the top speed limiters well before you would reach the theoretical top speed when using the redline of the engine versus gearing. With 5.13's and 37" tires the truck would theoretically hit 170+ mph at 5,500 rpm....but you would hit the speed limiter well before than, and even if the speed limiter was removed the truck wouldn't have enough power to go that fast anyway.

 

[ALRedneck]

We have a diesel truck as well, I definitely agree that it has WAY more power. I like the way gas drives better for here. No chance of long trips, the island is only 74 miles across. Plus, diesel is hard to find, there are only 2 stations that sell it up the mountain. If we go down to sea level, there are plenty of stations, but it's 25 minutes out of the way. If I lived on the Mainland (one day I will!), I would definitely have a diesel as my daily driver!

I'm not looking to turn the truck into a hot rod, just looking for better passing and more power on demand.

I keep reading about CAI, Cat Back, etc., and it seems like there is no real answer with those items.
Some people claim that they don't work. Some people claim that they are the best things in the world.
I just want to be able to pass people and get out of the way if I need to.

Sounds like you live in paradise! Bet your elevation is hurting your power too. I would just say screw passing someone and enjoy the scenery! LOL

 

[ALRedneck]

One thing to keep in mind that when the OP states the truck is slow or has no power that is all subjective based on what they feel it should be, or what they are comparing it to. Not saying they are wrong but it is their personal opinion.

The first thing I would say is to make sure that the ECM has been correctly reprogrammed for the larger tires. Going from 33" to 37" tires will cause transmission shifting issues, mainly shift points. I know the OP stated the dealership reprogrammed this but I would double-check that. The second thing is that even if the ECM is reprogrammed the tires and lift are still adding a significant amount of stress (or power requirements) to move the truck around. The tires are larger diameter so it takes more power/leverage to move them plus the are heavier....they are also rotating mass which is worse. Adding 200 lbs. in the bed of the truck is nothing, but adding 200 lbs. of rotating mass (i.e. tires and wheels) can make a big difference. The lift kit is increasing the aerodynamic drag on the truck.

Based on the above and the use of the truck (doesn't sound like any long road trips!) I think that regearing the axles would be the best thing to do. It is the biggest investment in dollars but you will actually be able to feel the difference. I would also invest in some sort of tuner that will enable you to adjust the gear ratio and tire size. Second thing would be a custom engine tune from somebody like Hemifever.

From my personal experience with my '16 PW I really don't have any complaints on the transmission shifting. I ran it with the stock 33's and then upgraded to a heavier and more aggressive 35" tire. Both empty and pulling a smaller 4,000 lb. trailer I thought the transmission shifted fine. When pulling the small trailer it will downshift into 5th fairly soon, which is to be expected, and on a longer and steeper hill on the freeway it might hit 4th. I mean, when you started pulling a grade or gave it gas to pass a vehicle it downshifts.....I have seen people complain about their transmissions and when test driving them the complaint was that they did downshift in those situations. Seems like some people thought the transmission shouldn't have to downshift??? Also have to ask, but the OP is giving it more gas when going up hill, right??

Another question the OP asked was how axle gears affect top speed. If you calculated it out on paper than putting lower axle gears (higher numerically) would lower your top speed, you would still hit the top speed limiters well before you would reach the theoretical top speed when using the redline of the engine versus gearing. With 5.13's and 37" tires the truck would theoretically hit 170+ mph at 5,500 rpm....but you would hit the speed limiter well before than, and even if the speed limiter was removed the truck wouldn't have enough power to go that fast anyway.

Yep, perspective is everything. Just like the 6 speed, I‘ve never had anything with more speeds so I think our 6 speed is awesome. Especially after having a Cummings with a 4 speed. Tow/haul limited to a 3 speed! I’ve also owned a 950 ft/lb diesel so knew what I was giving up to gain off road ability. With my 6,000 fiberglass boat, I lock out 5 and 6 gears so it’s in its peak torque zone and I drives more like a diesel by not down shifting all the time.

 

[donivan]

Pedal Commander (without this, I would have sold the truck already.....)

This is a bold statement for a $300 device! I'm going to have to look into this...

Back to your question I would look at re-gearing first. In another thread on here (benefit of 8 speed) someone mentioned a transmission tune helps out significantly...may want to investigate that.

 

[Booms]

W-H-I-P-P-L-E

You're welcome