2019 Ram 3500 brake controller question

[Lorimeyer]

We're towing a 15k 5th wheel with the brake set to Heavy Electric and at 10 gain. The 5er wheels dont lock and there's just a slight pull back when braking. I read online that the brake controller has to be programmed for a 5th wheel. Should I try the Heavy electric Hydraulic setting first?

Thanks for your help.

 

[crash68]

Have you checked the actual trailer brakes to see if they need to be adjusted? Just like a car they need to be adjusted also.
I always wonder why people are fascinated by wanting trailer brakes to lock up? Once those wheels stop spinning that trailer does what it wants. The factory brake controller uses braking force and vehicle speed to determine how much trailer brake to apply. If your feeling the trailer pull back on the truck, the brake setting is too high.

 

[stevenP]

I have the same exact issue with my 15K fifth wheel RV. With smaller lighter fivers, the IBC was barley adequate. With my newest larger fiver, the brakes were really a joke all maxed out like yours. The RAM IBC, is a pulsed DC type, so maxed out it will only push around 8 volts to the brakes on the RV. If you measure the DC voltage with a DVM, at the spare 7 pin at the back of the truck...thats what you will see.

I went and installed a tekonsha P3 after market brake controller, with the optional RAM wiring harness . It by passes the IBC in the truck. Ya I know this seems stupid, but it is what it is. Now I can lock up the brakes on the RV no problem. It is night and day different in braking power. And when the controller says there are 11, 12 even 14 volts being applied to the brakes...it actually is. Took about 20 minutes for the install, and it was cheap.

 

[BossHogg]

The RAM IBC, is a pulsed DC type, so maxed out it will only push around 8 volts to the brakes on the RV. If you measure the DC voltage with a DVM, at the spare 7 pin at the back of the truck...thats what you will see.

I went and installed a tekonsha P3 after market brake controller

It is very difficult to get an accurate voltage measurement from a pulsed powered circuit (usually called PWM) like the brake controller. Because the voltage is switched on and off for a varying amount of time and the meter has its own sampling time, you don't know when the meter decides to take a voltage reading. Does the meter sample during an on event (12 volts) or an off event (0 volts), you don't know.

High-end meters can measure time periods and hertz, looking at the time period on the brake line will tell you the percentage of on time. If, for example, the voltage is on for a 50% duty cycle, the effective DC voltage is half of the battery voltage (less a small drop). The other method is using an oscilloscope to measure the time period and duty cycle. In either case, the trailer brake controller needs to see an inductive load before it will output so you need to monitor the brake circuit while the trailer is connected.

The Tekonsha and most modern brake controllers all use PWM to send braking effort to the trailer's brakes.

Often, poor trailer brake performance on a new trailer is the fault of the brakes not yet bedded. I made this mistake and my RV dealer never said anything. It took a bit of an effort to bed the brakes and since, I do not have issues with the ITBM. The best way to test the trailer's brakes is to use the break-away switch and see how much braking resistance the trailer provides to the tow vehicle. Don't leave the break-away engaged for too long since heat will build up in the brake magnets.

 

[stevenP]

I removed and tested every braking component on our new landmark fiver when this brake issue persisted. Like most peple, I assumed there must be some issue on the RV..wiring, magnets ,connections etc. Everything checked fine. Everything was new. I went so far as to actually have another persons truck (ford), hooked up to and test tow with my fifth wheel and it worked fine with aggressive braking on the RV.

By-passing the stock ram IBC, with the tekonsha on my 3500 made all the difference in the world. I replaced no other wiring, or components on the truck or RV. Night and day difference on the ability to apply effective braking. The stock IBC sorta worked ok, with my 10K weight fiver, with the 6K dexter axles. My current fiver has 8K axles with much larger brakes and pads. The brakes were set at 10 with heavy electric setting, and the braking was dismal at best. I really didnt want to have to by pass the IBC in the truck, as it is a hassle. But the braking on this 15K fiver was non-existent all the way home from the dealer in Wisconsin. Pulling the emergency stop braking switch did make it lock the tires, but obviously that is just a testimonial on the wiring, and if was is correctly connected.

 

[BossHogg]

By-passing the stock ram IBC, with the tekonsha on my 3500 made all the difference in the world.

RAM years before 2015, the ITBM worked fantastically. Beginning with 2015 production they broke it, many complaints on the various RAM forums. The complaints were so numerous, the smart folks at Tekonsha designed and release a Prodigy cable that plugged into the ITBM connector. It affected those pulling heavy, mostly above 10,000 pounds. The big issue was the ITBM backed off trailer braking when the travel speed fell below 30MPH. In November of 2016, a flash for the ITBM and the ABS was released that corrected the ITBM so it would perform as expected.

I don't understand RAM's reasons for the operational design change. I wrote them and did receive answers but the answers were ambiguous and non-descriptive. I can tell you from my look into the ITBM issue back in 2015, RAM changed the period of the PMW trailer brake signal out to 250 milliseconds. Compare that to the Prodigy's at 5 milliseconds. What that means is the Prodigy can send a tight group of on/off signals to the brakes than the ITBM but that is a double-edged sword, I'll come back to this. Think about the mechanics of the trailer brakes, at least the shoe brakes which is what I have. The brake controller pulses energy to the brake magnet, this causes the brake shoes to move. The mechanical action of the shoes is much much slower than the magnet energizing and de-energizing. This provides faster control over the brake shoes.

Back in 2015 I installed my Prodigy P2 so I could stop. After RAM updated my truck I removed the Prodigy. This exposure gave me a good opportunity to feel the difference in both brake controllers. The double-edged sword I mentioned, the ITBM is much more refined than the Prodigy, this doesn't make the Prodigy a bad performer, it isn't. It simply means the ITBM has access to the vehicle's dynamic data allowing the ITBM more precise control of the trailer brakes.

Sorry for the long post, your trailer stopping experiences paralleled mine when I bought my 2015 3500. This is the first I've heard of trailer braking issues since the 2015 issues. I hope they didn't break the brakes again. One more thing, dealers are completely clueless on how to test or troubleshoot the ITBM's output. Ask me how I know

 

[2500HD]

This factory brake controller issue has me concerned as I just purchased a 2019 2500. I hooked up both my horse trailer and RV TT today and went for a drive with each and had no problem adjusting the gain to completely lockup the brakes on both trailers.

 

[BossHogg]

This factory brake controller issue has me concerned as I just purchased a 2019 2500. I hooked up both my horse trailer and RV TT today and went for a drive with each and had no problem adjusting the gain to completely lockup the brakes on both trailers.

Why? Your brake controller is doing its job. Don't be concerned over my post, as I said, my issue was on my 2015 which was corrected by a software update.

 

[2500HD]

The title of this post says 2019 and someone mentioned 2015 and above IBC has an issue. I needed to hookup and make adjustments anyway.

 

[Dknice70]

When you installed the Prodigy P3 did you have to have the computer flashed before it would work? I have a 2016 3500. Thinking about purchasing the P3.