2022 Cummins Regen Issues

[johnsaye]

I have a 2021 Ram 6.7 , same problem. Regens started being an issue at 36,000 miles. To many regens will degrade the oil leading to major engine problems down the road . Went to the Ram dealer in Santa Fe today and was told it’s a problem with most Cummins equipped Rams! I was told they were backed up with these problems and it would be at least July before they could get to my truck! What am I supposed to do ? Try another dealer or park the truck for 2 months? This is a problem the factory is aware of with so far no answers.

 

[nlambert182]

It's more than just Cummins.... you fail to remember that the same equipment is on EVERY modern diesel engine and all of them suffer from similar problems. It doesn't matter what you own, you're going to run into this eventually.

You can thank the EPA. There's only one way to solve the problems and it's not a way that they like.

Powerstrokes:




Duramax:




Heavy Equipment:

 

[2003F350]

I have a 2021 Ram 6.7 , same problem. Regens started being an issue at 36,000 miles. To many regens will degrade the oil leading to major engine problems down the road . Went to the Ram dealer in Santa Fe today and was told it’s a problem with most Cummins equipped Rams! I was told they were backed up with these problems and it would be at least July before they could get to my truck! What am I supposed to do ? Try another dealer or park the truck for 2 months? This is a problem the factory is aware of with so far no answers.

How is a regen (where it's literally raising exhaust temps after the turbo) going to degrade the oil that you're supposed to be regularly changing out? Beyond that, the engine/oil temp doesn't go up during a regen, JUST exhaust temps. Then I believe (I could be wrong on this, I know more about older DPF systems) that it injects diesel fuel into the DPF to burn off the accumulated soot.

Yes, Cummins says you can go 15k on an oil change. I go 7500, some guys are going 10k, others 5k. Regardless, if you're changing it regularly and keeping an eye on it, it's never going to degrade to a point where you'll have issues anyway.

Edit: reading the above post, looks like a LOT of the issues are from people not paying attention to how their trucks are operating and using cheap/bad fuels. Imagine that - if you don't take care of your vehicle and treat it well, it starts having issues!

As for what to do? Yes, I'd try another dealership, you may also want to look into a completely different diesel mechanic.

 

[Choupique]

Cummins doesn't use exhaust injectors. The exhaust temperature is raised in cylinder. The added fuel and added heat is definitely hard on oil. Riding around in perpetual regen is very hard on everything.

 

[nlambert182]

Cummins doesn't use exhaust injectors. The exhaust temperature is raised in cylinder. The added fuel and added heat is definitely hard on oil. Riding around in perpetual regen is very hard on everything.

Well, they do.. but it is a DEF injector versus a diesel injector. DEF is injected after the DPF based upon the amount of soot that the sensor sees. That injection creates a reaction with the nitrogen oxides in the exhaust and turns it into nitrogen and water. You'll sometimes see a stain trail on the bottom of the inside of the exhaust pipe. This is why.

Once the DPF reaches an internal temp of close to 600 degrees F, a passive regen will occur naturally. When a full on regen is required, fuel is injected on the exhaust stroke and pushed into the Nox canister where it is ignited. That increases the temps to 1100-1200 degree F. Once the cycle reaches 40%, active regen shuts down and passive regeneration takes back over until you're back to zero.

The heat isn't raised in cylinder (cylinder temps remain roughly the same) since the fuel is ignited in the exhaust between the engine and the DPF. It does not impact your oil.

 

[nlambert182]

How is a regen (where it's literally raising exhaust temps after the turbo) going to degrade the oil that you're supposed to be regularly changing out? Beyond that, the engine/oil temp doesn't go up during a regen, JUST exhaust temps. Then I believe (I could be wrong on this, I know more about older DPF systems) that it injects diesel fuel into the DPF to burn off the accumulated soot.

Yes, Cummins says you can go 15k on an oil change. I go 7500, some guys are going 10k, others 5k. Regardless, if you're changing it regularly and keeping an eye on it, it's never going to degrade to a point where you'll have issues anyway.

Edit: reading the above post, looks like a LOT of the issues are from people not paying attention to how their trucks are operating and using cheap/bad fuels. Imagine that - if you don't take care of your vehicle and treat it well, it starts having issues!

As for what to do? Yes, I'd try another dealership, you may also want to look into a completely different diesel mechanic.

It doesn't.

I agree that some issues are caused from user error, but more often than not it's the system itself. It's overly complicated and things like the DPF are considered replaceable. They're not intended to last the life of the vehicle. Quality of fuel, additives, how the truck is used, etc... have an impact on how long it lasts. There are just too many variables for the computer to adjust enough to extend the life. It has baselines that it follows. If you fall outside of those baselines (like a daily commuter that uses poor quality diesel and dumps in a bunch of unnecessary additives while stretching fuel filter changes) then you're likely to see a failure sooner.

 

[Choupique]

Well since you opened the can, there's a few corrections needed. Don't take it the wrong way, trying to make sure the information out there is accurate. Some of your understanding of how this works is crossed up.

DEF is injected at a rate determined largely by the NOx tables in the engine calibration. It is reading its environment measurables, comparing those to a software table that says how much def to squirt in those conditions, verifying it against the NOx sensor readings. The only smoke sensor you have is DPF inlet pressure and is mostly independent of NOx control. PM control and NOx control are totally separate, and you can have one without the other in some applications.

Exhaust temp raised in cylinder just means there isn't a fuel injector in the pipe. All of the post injection and goofy timing going on is a major driver of fuel dilution in the lube oil and id venture to say becomes the primary issue with frequent regens. Perpetual operation in regen is mechanically hard on everything because the engine is running stupidly, you are having fuel washing the cylinders, and some really high temps everywhere.

DPF life is theoretically only limited by how much non-combustable stuff gets shoved down the pipe or how much catalyst poison goes through it. When you are in active regen too much, the heat cycles can break it.

 

[nlambert182]

I don't disagree with you and I tried to over simplify it but I don't think I crossed anything up. It's essentially what I was trying to say. The only part I disagreed with was the cylinder temp increase. There's no noticeable increase in that because the heat that drives the regen happens in the NOx canister. But yes, frequent regens will eventually kill the DPF. Regens do happen based on the amount of soot that the DPF acquires so if you're running bad fuel, granny driving, etc..... then the regens are going to be more frequent and they are going to shorten the life of the DPF.

To my original point, ALL diesel engines have a similar system so it really isn't up to Cummins to fix a system that no one else has figured out. The industry has a method that works for a while and that's about the best anyone can hope for. The EPA is the cause and is killing engines that once would go 250-500k miles relatively trouble free. So like I mentioned before, the only way to make this a trouble free engine is to get rid of it.

 

[johnsaye]

Cummins doesn't use exhaust injectors. The exhaust temperature is raised in cylinder. The added fuel and added heat is definitely hard on oil. Riding around in perpetual regen is very hard on everything.

Exactly

 

[johnsaye]

Exactly, too many regens will definitely degrade the oil. Dealers have been replacing a lot of DPF's, but the problems will continue. These trucks are being sold to a lot of people who don't tow heavy loads all the time and they as well as mine are used as a daily driver! I was never warned when I purchased the truck that would be an problem

 

[turkeybird56]

^^^ ALL ABOVE ^^^, Why I got rid of my 2015 ED and went with the Hemi. Also, my ED was a Gen II, with EGR and other issues popping up, and Regen issues, but I was fortunate, I knew to run it hard once a week down the highway, which I did till I traded up. I monitored temps so I knew when in a passive and active regen cycle.

 

[nlambert182]

Exactly, too many regens will definitely degrade the oil. Dealers have been replacing a lot of DPF's, but the problems will continue. These trucks are being sold to a lot of people who don't tow heavy loads all the time and they as well as mine are used as a daily driver! I was never warned when I purchased the truck that would be an problem

How?

The temps are not raised in cylinder. It's raised in the Nox canister. Fuel is dumped on the exhaust stroke where it is ignited in the Nox canister. Not the cylinder.


You shouldn't need to be warned. Do the research. They're designed to tow heavy. Manufacturers nor dealers need to hold your hand and explain all of this. How you choose to use it isn't up to them. Use it for what it was meant for, or don't.

This isn't a new thing and is not specific to Cummins. ALL diesel engines have the same type of systems, and all run into the same types of problems. If you want to use one strictly as a daily driver and never as a tow rig, you'll pay to play.

 

[Choupique]

How?

Fuel dilution

 

[kevin48]

I bought a 2022 Ram with the 6.7 new in the summer of 2022. At first, for the first year, the truck performed flawlessly. Now I have 75,000 miles on the truck. I took it in because it seemed to be regenerating frequently. Got it back from the dealer three weeks ago, now it constantly regenerates with intervals of no more than 30 minutes in between. Took it in again, this time apparently, the master mechanic is looking at it. The first time I took it in, they charged me $1200 and did some warranty work on it as well. This time they apparently found some other parts that need replaced that will cost another $1500. Oh, when I bought it, the salesman never informed me I was only allowed to drive long distances and pulling loads. Of course, I do use it that way but, sometimes I need to run to the store and now, I'm supposed to drive around and wait for the regen process to finish. Are you kidding me? I think they sold it to me under false pretense. My plan is to get it back, hopefully functioning correctly and if not, I will go to the General Manager this time and demand answers. I don't think they have any. I am currently calling area attorneys to see if I have a case against them for false advertising, selling faulty equipment, and selling under false pretense. ANY THOUGHTS?

 

[nlambert182]

I bought a 2022 Ram with the 6.7 new in the summer of 2022. At first, for the first year, the truck performed flawlessly. Now I have 75,000 miles on the truck. I took it in because it seemed to be regenerating frequently. Got it back from the dealer three weeks ago, now it constantly regenerates with intervals of no more than 30 minutes in between. Took it in again, this time apparently, the master mechanic is looking at it. The first time I took it in, they charged me $1200 and did some warranty work on it as well. This time they apparently found some other parts that need replaced that will cost another $1500. Oh, when I bought it, the salesman never informed me I was only allowed to drive long distances and pulling loads. Of course, I do use it that way but, sometimes I need to run to the store and now, I'm supposed to drive around and wait for the regen process to finish. Are you kidding me? I think they sold it to me under false pretense. My plan is to get it back, hopefully functioning correctly and if not, I will go to the General Manager this time and demand answers. I don't think they have any. I am currently calling area attorneys to see if I have a case against them for false advertising, selling faulty equipment, and selling under false pretense. ANY THOUGHTS?

I don't think you have much of a case unfortunately. Sorry.

Most salespeople don't know shinola about a diesel truck. They just want to sell a truck and if you like it, they'll put you in it. If you're going to own a diesel, best to educate yourself and not depend on a salesperson.

There are multiple levels of regen, and unless it's in an active regen you don't have to keep driving around from a grocery trip to let the regen finish. If you're getting constant active regen notifications, then yes, you have a problem. But... once the warranty is out on the emissions system, there's nothing the dealer can/is going to do to help you.

Find out if it had the emissions recall 67A. A lot of folks have had issues with regen once that recall got completed. If it has been, talk to the service manager about it and see if you can get a case opened for FCA to investigate it. @RamCares might be able to help.

You say that you do tow heavy loads long distance. What does that mean? How long, how often in comparison to putting it around town?

Not saying you don't have something funky going on, but the emissions systems on all diesel trucks can be problematic. It's one of the costs of ownership.

 

[06 Dodge]

I don't think you have much of a case unfortunately. Sorry.

Most salespeople don't know shinola about a diesel truck. They just want to sell a truck and if you like it, they'll put you in it. If you're going to own a diesel, best to educate yourself and not depend on a salesperson.

There are multiple levels of regen, and unless it's in an active regen you don't have to keep driving around from a grocery trip to let the regen finish. If you're getting constant active regen notifications, then yes, you have a problem. But... once the warranty is out on the emissions system, there's nothing the dealer can/is going to do to help you.

Find out if it had the emissions recall 67A. A lot of folks have had issues with regen once that recall got completed. If it has been, talk to the service manager about it and see if you can get a case opened for FCA to investigate it. @RamCares might be able to help.

You say that you do tow heavy loads long distance. What does that mean? How long, how often in comparison to putting it around town?

Not saying you don't have something funky going on, but the emissions systems on all diesel trucks can be problematic. It's one of the costs of ownership.

I recall the 67A recall only applies to 2013 to 2018 model trucks, yes some 2022 are having problems with frequent regens but I thought the DPF system was covered under emissions warranty for 7/80K so not sure why he was charged to fix it unless there is more to the story, also recall there is a star notice out that some 2022 built after I think it was 6/22 to early 2023 had problems DPF so his may need the to be replaced depending on what code # it throws...

 

[oledirteh]

if you want to know the ins and outs of how regens can affect a truck check out this thread.

Too much oil and poor dealer help

My truck is 2022 3500 SRW S.O. 43K miles. Last Friday I had my mechanic change my oil and fuel filter change. When he drained the oil it filled a 5gal pan with really thinned down oil and over flowed a bit. Approximately 2 gallon extra fluid, he told me to take it the dealer as I probably...

hdrams.com

Dinky has been fighting this for a year now, and ram has dumped more money into the truck then what he paid for it at this point. Regens every 40 miles. Its sad however fascinating to read.

 

[jejb]

See this RAM TSB. I don't think there is any limitation on miles in it:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2024/MC-11008226-0001.pdf

 

[nlambert182]

TSBs can be open indefinitely, but a TSB can often be performed at the expense of the owner and not under a recall.

OP - how many miles are on your truck? If it were under the 80k mile mark I also find it odd that you were charged by the dealer.

 

[oledirteh]

TSBs can be open indefinitely, but a TSB can often be performed at the expense of the owner and not under a recall.

OP - how many miles are on your truck? If it were under the 80k mile mark I also find it odd that you were charged by the dealer.

depends on the state. some states are 80, while others are 5/50