2025 1500 RamCharger. Is it an EV?

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Fake-Account27

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This is the solution to those of us that Tow. I do not drive much and 100 miles of EV range will work for 99% of non towing commutes. Then when I basically get a gas vehicle. If this had a small diesel engine in it, I would want it even more, but I know that does not make any sense.
 

bballr4567

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It's a range extender, not a drive forever generator. It doesn't put out enough amps to stay ahead of the battery drain, hence why it has a 690 mile range. Otherwise, why have a battery at all? Yeah, sure you could pull over and stop to allow the generator to recharge the battery. But you will eventually drain the battery. Even faster when under a tow/haul load.
Incorrect. It's a generator that will run as long as you have gas. So in that sense, yes, you can drive forever as long as gas stations are to be found. The vehicle will never be have power sent to the wheels directly from the generator. A lot of you are simply guessing as to how it operates when there are already plenty of information out.

It has a 690 mile range because that's when you'll run of gas to charge the battery.


As far as tow/haul, Ram figured that out too. :D
Those 145 miles of battery range will likely drop to less than half that when towing, but the generator keeps the rig rolling after that. The generator in question is rated at 174 horsepower of continuous output. That doesn't sound like any way to keep up while towing 14,000 pounds, but a Ram powertrain engineer we spoke to says this is plenty. On generator power, you can cruise a flat interstate at 65 mph with a max load trailer until the fuel tank needs to be refilled. Tow something like 7000 pounds, and it only gets better.

The ups and downs of rolling terrain are covered by dipping into the unused portion of the battery on the upslope, then shuffling some power back into the battery when easing off and regenerating on the downslope. If the load gets more intense, the system can run the generator up to its peak output of 255 horsepower. But there's always battery power standing behind that, so the occasional short bursts that need more power than that should always be possible.

Headed for the mountains? Select Tow mode, and the charge-sustaining set-aside percentage is increased to 35 percent, up from the normal 16 percent. The V-6 engine and generator set will come online earlier, and the generator will run closer to peak output more of the time. Between that and the enlarged Tow mode battery reserve, Ram says the Ramcharger should be more than able to tackle the kind of long, steep grades found in the mountain West.

That checks out, because we've towed up long western grades with EVs, and the upslopes don't last nearly as long as you imagine. Electricity use certainly spikes up, but we're not talking dozens of miles at a time with no letup. There are always ups and downs, and there's always more left at the summit than we expected. Here an engine and generator have your back, and you'll gain a lot back on the way down the other side.
 

Stavinksi

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Specs said 130 kW generator. That should be plenty to power the truck until it runs out of gas regardless of battery charge. Unless you’re like my grandpa and drive up hill in the rain both ways on the way to your camp site.
 

DanAR

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Still going to have one of those eco-disaster, hyper expensive, non-recyclable, exploding lithium battery packs to haunt your life. Of course our e-torques have a mini-me version too. :rolleyes:
 

TestPilot57

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Incorrect. It's a generator that will run as long as you have gas. So in that sense, yes, you can drive forever as long as gas stations are to be found. The vehicle will never be have power sent to the wheels directly from the generator. A lot of you are simply guessing as to how it operates when there are already plenty of information out.

It has a 690 mile range because that's when you'll run of gas to charge the battery.
How about simple physics?

What kind of magic is between the gas engine and the electric motor that "creates" 600 HP out of (okay, guessing here) 300 HP? This would be even beyond the fallacy of perpetual motion, because there have to be losses between the engine and the motor.

Back to guessing. The range assumes starting with a fully charged battery and a full fuel tank. You are found on road dead when both are drained.

As for the comparison to locomotives, it's similar, in that the ICE does not directly power the drive wheels, but locomotives don't run the drive wheels off batteries, they are powered directly by the generator. Taking this example to the range issue discussed above, if the battery were taken out of the equation in the Ramcharger* how are you going to get 600 HP and 690 miles range simply by running a generator off a V6? There is no magic box involved. It requires a battery and you need to start with it fully charged, and it will get drained as you drive.

*More naming failures by FCA/Stellantis. First, making Ram a brand instead of a model, now using a name from one vehicle type and using it for another.
 

runamuck

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It sounds like the vehicle will have the weight of the battery plus the weight of a good size motor and generator to deal with. also sounds like instead of a nice storage area up front where a motor used to be (like the ford ev trucks), there will still be an engine bay full of parts to service. I have not seen this proposed vehicle so could be way off base on this.
 

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Specs said 130 kW generator. That should be plenty to power the truck until it runs out of gas regardless of battery charge. Unless you’re like my grandpa and drive up hill in the rain both ways on the way to your camp site.
That's not going to be enough to power the electric motors under load for long. Put 8-10k behind it and the efficiency of the electric motors plummets in to the gutter. We see that with the current EV trucks where the motors are pulling 200+ kW from the batteries while towing. Then you are in a situation where the battery is being drained quickly and that generator is not going to provide enough power to drive those motors at full tilt.

I'd suspect it'll put the truck in to some kind of reduced power mode until you can get somewhere to charge.

I look forward to the testing on this truck.
 

Stavinksi

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Right but you aren’t going to be going full throttle continuously on the electric motors and I would think tow/haul would start the gas engine well in advance of an empty battery. All guessing of course, I also look forward to seeing what it actually does.
 

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I sold my '17 RAM 3 months ago. I've been 2 months into a Rivian R1T (absolutely loving it btw).

I don't take long trips, but I'd like to in the future (more camping/road trips). So if the charging infra hasn't improved in the next 2 years, I may hop back on the RAM train. This Ramcharger is going to do well. Hopefully, it's priced appropriately and Stealerships don't **** us consumers over.

Another thing I loved about Rivian, the purchase XP was amazing. I do miss my RAM though and those hemi cold starts during the Winter season... <3
 

bballr4567

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How about simple physics?

What kind of magic is between the gas engine and the electric motor that "creates" 600 HP out of (okay, guessing here) 300 HP? This would be even beyond the fallacy of perpetual motion, because there have to be losses between the engine and the motor.

Back to guessing. The range assumes starting with a fully charged battery and a full fuel tank. You are found on road dead when both are drained.

As for the comparison to locomotives, it's similar, in that the ICE does not directly power the drive wheels, but locomotives don't run the drive wheels off batteries, they are powered directly by the generator. Taking this example to the range issue discussed above, if the battery were taken out of the equation in the Ramcharger* how are you going to get 600 HP and 690 miles range simply by running a generator off a V6? There is no magic box involved. It requires a battery and you need to start with it fully charged, and it will get drained as you drive.

*More naming failures by FCA/Stellantis. First, making Ram a brand instead of a model, now using a name from one vehicle type and using it for another.
It's a COMBINED 663 HP from both electric drive motors. The front EDM has 320ish and the rear EDM has 340ish. There is no "engine" per say as it's SOLELY a power plant for the generator on board. The EDMs can scale how much power they provide just like how an ICE can as well. You don't make all of the rated power at 30% throttle.

I think you need to do some basic research on EDMs and how they work. Specifically check out the motors from Tesla in the Model S Plaid. They don't even have an engine and produce over 1000HP. If you consider the Ramcharger magic then what is one of the fastest production cars in the world.
 

mikeru

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You know the (now defunct) Chevy Volt?

Think of it as something similar to that. You can plug it in and run pure electric for short trips. For longer trips a gasoline "range extender" engine kicks in to keep the batteries charged. So if you go on a long trip you don't need to worry so much about finding a charging station.

IMO still a waste. If you only drive short trips why carry the weight of the gas engine and associated equipment around? If you drive longer trips why lug around a battery? It's a halfway house vehicle that, ultimately, satisfies nobody. Reason GM no longer makes the Volt. The concept was tried a decade ago and failed.
The volt had a couple things against it. The biggest being the battery range. First gen numbers wouldn't get me to work and back. Gen 2 range was better, but by then the writing was on the wall. Second, and some may dismiss this, it was endorsed by a very polarizing president. I know people who said they'd never buy an "Obama mobile". I wasn't interested in the car at the time. But gas prices (hell, prices of pretty much everything) were much lower then. And with over a 100 mile battery range with the Ramcharger I'm much more interested in that technology now.

One of the more attractive features of the Ramcharger for me is the ability to use it as a home generator, like the Ford Lightning. But unlike the Lightning it has the ability to maintain that indefinitely without the need to plug it in to charge the batteries. This probably isn't something that appeals to most potential buyers, but the power at my house has been less reliable the past couple years. The portable generator I have now doesn't quite cut it for extended home use. And for those who like to camp you'd have a truck to pull your camper and a built in generator, although maybe overkill for that purpose.
 

TestPilot57

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I think you need to do some basic research on EDMs and how they work.
Actually, no. I don't need to.

AND my entire post was regarding the statement about range. I stand by my statements. Physics don't lie. Oh, and By the way, I was rejected from taking Physics 101. They made me take 201 because 101 would have been "way too easy" for me. Yes, my IQ is above 80.
 

OutpostRam

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Lots of questions, areas of concern, for when this vehicle goes from Vapor Ware to an actual on-the-lot item.
Sorry long reply.

The Ford Lightning weighs in at 6500 lbs. Add a Pentistar v6 and Generator to that weight and the truck is upwards of 7500lbs?
Price?? this will be a very expensive vehicle. Will Ram loose money on every REV sold like most other EV manufactures?
Four wheel drive or all wheel drive?
Over the air updates, or do I have to take it to the dealer like VW, because they can't perform OTA updates?
Since the truck has a V6 Pentastar gas engine, will I have to take it to emissions like my other gas vehicles?
Still have all the maintenance issues of a gasoline engine: oil changes, air filtration, radiator, etc.
We owned a 2018 Chrysler Pacifica with the V6 Pentistar engine. Great mileage on the road, common to hit 31mpg. After 69,000 miles, we had a cylinder head/head gasket go bad. Researching this issue online, many people are having this issue. The engines are made in Mexico and USA. The VIN can be decoded to find country of manufacture. There is a high occurrence of this issue on the engine with engines built south of the border. $4600 later at the local Chryco dealer, and only 2.5 days time, the vehicle was back on the road. Chrysler Cares was contacted and sent us a check for the full amount. Kudos to the dealer on the turn-around time.
Since this engine has 2 cylinder heads, we worried about the second cylinder head going south (pun intended).
Vehicle was traded in for a Tesla model Y long range. With gasoline at $4.00/gallon, we save close to 1/3 in costs using home charging during low peak hours over the cost of gasoline.
When is Stallantis going to change to the NACS. The North American Charge Standard was developed by Tesla and MOST auto makers have switched from CCS to NACS. A much better system. Lighter electrical cord, uptime well over 99% at Tesla Super chargers when traveling compared to Electrify America and other CCS charge stations.
With both feet in the ICE and EV world, it will be interesting to test drive this vehicle.
No I won't get rid of my '63 Dodge m37, '07 Hemi Magnum, '14 Ram 1500 or other ICE vehicles.
 
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jejb

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Vehicle was traded in for a Tesla model Y long range. With gasoline at $4.00/gallon, we save close to 1/3 in costs using home charging during low peak hours over the cost of gasoline.
The same will be true of the Ramcharger for most people that are commuting/local driving with it.

Regular is "only" $2.60 around here.
 

mikeru

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Lots of questions, areas of concern, for when this vehicle goes from Vapor Ware to an actual on-the-lot item.
Sorry long reply.

The Ford Lightning weighs in at 6500 lbs. Add a Pentistar v6 and Generator to that weight and the truck is upwards of 7500lbs?
Price?? this will be a very expensive vehicle. Will Ram loose money on every REV sold like most other EV manufactures?
Four wheel drive or all wheel drive?
Over the air updates, or do I have to take it to the dealer like VW, because they can't perform OTA updates?
Since the truck has a V6 Pentastar gas engine, will I have to take it to emissions like my other gas vehicles?
Still have all the maintenance issues of a gasoline engine: oil changes, air filtration, radiator, etc.
We owned a 2018 Chrysler Pacifica with the V6 Pentistar engine. Great mileage on the road, common to hit 31mpg. After 69,000 miles, we had a cylinder head/head gasket go bad. Researching this issue online, many people are having this issue. The engines are made in Mexico and USA. The VIN can be decoded to find country of manufacture. There is a high occurrence of this issue on the engine with engines built south of the border. $4600 later at the local Chryco dealer, and only 2.5 days time, the vehicle was back on the road. Chrysler Cares was contacted and sent us a check for the full amount. Kudos to the dealer on the turn-around time.
Since this engine has 2 cylinder heads, we worried about the second cylinder head going south (pun intended).
Vehicle was traded in for a Tesla model Y long range. With gasoline at $4.00/gallon, we save close to 1/3 in costs using home charging during low peak hours over the cost of gasoline.
When is Stallantis going to change to the NACS. The North American Charge Standard was developed by Tesla and MOST auto makers have switched from CCS to NACS. A much better system. Lighter electrical cord, uptime well over 99% at Tesla Super chargers when traveling compared to Electrify America and other CCS charge stations.
With both feet in the ICE and EV world, it will be interesting to test drive this vehicle.
No I won't get rid of my '63 Dodge m37, '07 Hemi Magnum, '14 Ram 1500 or other ICE vehicles.
I'm okay with long posts. Gives me a chance to provide a long response :cheers:

Concerning the weight. I don't think you are taking into consideration the fact that the Ramcharger battery pack will be considerably smaller than the one in the Lightning. Maybe not enough to make up the difference, but the two will probably be much closer in weight than your post mentioned. We also don't know what other steps Ram may be taking to reduce weight further.

Price at this point is pure speculation. No doubt it will be more expensive than a traditional Ram 1500. But then again the same is true for all other EV/hybrid vehicles with ICE counterparts.

Unless I missed it, information on 4WD vs AWD hasn't been released, so anything we discuss is speculation. Both systems have their pros and cons. Which would you prefer it to have?

My assumption would be that updates will be provided in the same way as for other CDJR vehicles. Why would they change that? *BTW, I as an owner of two Audi's, I feel your pain about having to take the car to a dealership for updates. Closest one is over an hour away. And they always seem to mess it up, which means I'm at the dealership pretty much all day for that.

Emissions is a great question. It's in a vehicle, but its only purpose is to spin a generator. This could be a little messy right now, but I'm sure it will be ironed out before Ram starts taking orders on these.

Sure, there will still be maintenance required. I'm curious to know what the recommended intervals are for this application. I'm assuming it will be based on hours run instead of mileage. But whatever that is, in the grand scheme of things oil and filter changes, cooling system maintenance, spark plugs, etc are just minor inconveniences to me since I would do all that myself.

Regarding charging stations, I agree that NACS is far superior to CCS. I've read that Stellantis is considering adopting NACS, but so far haven't done that. Having said that though, I don't see that affecting the Ramcharger. Who is going to stop at a charging station with a vehicle that has its own charging station on board. Maybe there will be scenarios where it will happen, but I don't see it being common to see Ramcharger owners at charging stations.
 

Riccochet

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The same will be true of the Ramcharger for most people that are commuting/local driving with it.

Regular is "only" $2.60 around here.

Until you have to replace the battery at 100k miles to tune of $25-30k. Same goes for the Tesla.

Makes EV's pretty much disposable vehicles once their warranty is up. Almost no one is paying that to replace the batteries and the vehicles are scrapped. At least the Ram can drive on a dead battery via the generator. The Tesla you're getting a tow straight to the junk yard.
 

mikeru

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Until you have to replace the battery at 100k miles to tune of $25-30k. Same goes for the Tesla.

Makes EV's pretty much disposable vehicles once their warranty is up. Almost no one is paying that to replace the batteries and the vehicles are scrapped. At least the Ram can drive on a dead battery via the generator. The Tesla you're getting a tow straight to the junk yard.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. While still expensive, prices I've seen for Tesla replacement batteries is in the $10k to $20k range. Some reman'd replacement batteries go for around $5k, which is on par with an engine replacement. Still not an expense I'd like to fork out for, but it's a long way from your upper range of $30k.

With newer battery technology they're rethinking the full battery replacement and designing for replacing individual cells instead. This would be much less expensive. I'm skeptical though. Batteries loose capacity as they age. If you have a 7 year old battery that has a couple cells fail, is it really a good idea to mix brand new cells with their full capacity with older cells with diminished capacity? :shrug:
 

Riccochet

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That's a bit of an exaggeration. While still expensive, prices I've seen for Tesla replacement batteries is in the $10k to $20k range. Some reman'd replacement batteries go for around $5k, which is on par with an engine replacement. Still not an expense I'd like to fork out for, but it's a long way from your upper range of $30k.

With newer battery technology they're rethinking the full battery replacement and designing for replacing individual cells instead. This would be much less expensive. I'm skeptical though. Batteries loose capacity as they age. If you have a 7 year old battery that has a couple cells fail, is it really a good idea to mix brand new cells with their full capacity with older cells with diminished capacity? :shrug:
You might want to google what a factory replacement Tesla battery pack is going for, installed. $20-30k, depending on the model. This is well documented on Tesla forums, YT, reddit. Ram has already said the replacement battery back for the Ramcharger will be around $25k. And the Lightning extended range battery is $35k.

As for reman's. Heh....I wouldn't trust one. Would you trust a potential 2000C fire in or near your house? These things are catching fire when they're OEM. Sure, there are businesses out there rebuilding the packs. I don't think the risk is worth the reward in this situation. Worst case scenario with a bad rebuilt engine is a bad engine, worst case with a battery pack is unthinkable.

And the problem with replacing individual cells is you'll never have a balanced pack. Nor will you gain any range beyond what the least efficient cell is at. So if all your cells are at 85% and one fails, you replace it with a new cell, you'll still only get 85% range since the BMS needs to balance voltage between all cells. But then, like you said, you might get another year, or another week, before another cell dies. Degradation accelerates as the cells degrade. Going from 100% to 80% takes a lot longer than going from 80% to 60%.

It's a racket, and you're literally playing with an extremely hot fire that can't be extinguished if one step in the process going wrong.

Another reason why dealers don't want high mileage used EV's. They're worthless since you can't warranty them, no aftermarket warranty will provide one, and no one is going to buy a used EV that is near or past it's battery warranty. At auction you can get them cheap AF.
 
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