2500 payload and towing questions

[Zoe Saldana]

Again, let's not overthink the difference between 3.73 and 4.10 gears. You are only talking the difference of about 170 RPM at 65 mph. That is simply not that much. Sure, the 3.73 should be slightly better freeway MPG....but slightly. City or more stop and go driving can be a wash with the 4.10's possibly being better.
In regards to the older 6 speeds versus the 8 speeds, I don't see how highway mileage would be much different. The ratio of the top 3 gears on both transmissions are basically identical. When you are cruising down the freeway, especially empty, there is no reason you will be in any lower gear, and therefore both transmissions should be equal. The biggest difference with the 8 speed is that 1st gear is way lower, and then you basically have one extra gear in the lower range when accelerating from a stop. So city or stop and go driving should be a little better.
As everything on the internet, what starts out as "option A is slightly better than option B" turns into "option A is the greatest thing on earth and option B is absolutely terrible".

Correct on both counts!

I have a 2500 6.4l with 4.10 - love it!

 

[dhay13]

Correct on both counts!

I have a 2500 6.4l with 4.10 - love it!

Same. haven't driven one with 3.73s but wouldn't give up my 4.10s. And when I posted I get around 16.5 highway...thats at about 70-75. I wasn't trying for mileage. i'm sure if i kept it under 65 i could have got 17

 

[switters]

Thanks, everyone. I keep going back and forth on this, but I'm leaning toward getting a 6.4 2500. We tend to carry a lot of gear when we go out with the trailer, because our daughter rides horses and we're often camping at competitions/shows. We bring heavy shade tents, weber grill, hay bales, etc. in the truck bed.

At the end of the day, I don't want to have to think about weight that much. With a 1,500 lb payload, I'll have to. With a 2,500-3,000 lb payload, I won't (within reason, of course).

 

[Mark47ak]

I'm a little concerned about the RAWR. A guy I met on the Airstream forum has the exact trailer model I'm getting. He has an F-150 with a RAWR of 3800. The first time he weighed, he was 500 lbs over. Granted, he had a mini fridge and some other heavy items in the truck bed. But he was still 350 lbs over (4,150) even after lightening the load.

The RAWR on my truck is 4100. So, presuming I can match this guy's lighter load, I will be right at or slightly above the limit. It sounds like that's not a good idea.

I just test-drove a Rebel 2500 with the Cummins (they didn't have any 6.4s on the lot). I didn't mind the ride. Definitely stiffer, as you said, but I could be happy driving it. The bigger issue is just how enormous it is. Trying to park the 1500 in the small-ish parking lots in Bend is already a challenge, and that will be much harder with the 2500. My wife, especially, will hate it.

If we do get a 2500, it will be a 6.4 rather than the Cummins. I checked the payload on the door jam sticker on three of the Rebel 2500s they had on the lot (all with the Cummins engine). They ranged between 1700-1800. The payload on my Rebel 1500 is 1510. It doesn't make sense to switch to a 2500—and give up an easier around-town driving experience—just for 250-275 lbs more payload.

Do I understand correctly that the 6.4 gas Rebel 2500 should have 800-900 lbs. more payload, given the exact same options/configuration, simply because of the added weight of the Cummins diesel engine?

If so, a 6.4 2500 could be in my future. I still want to tow with the 1500 a few times (and weigh it to get the actual front/rear axle weight and overall weights) before deciding.

I have 2018 2500 6.4 hemi
Tow package with gooseneck k or 5thwheel Puck, crewcab 2wd, 15600 tow rated, bed weight 2850 26000 miles Tradesman silver color 4.10 gears. 30K FOR SALE

 

[badass2500]

Thanks, everyone. I keep going back and forth on this, but I'm leaning toward getting a 6.4 2500. We tend to carry a lot of gear when we go out with the trailer, because our daughter rides horses and we're often camping at competitions/shows. We bring heavy shade tents, weber grill, hay bales, etc. in the truck bed.

At the end of the day, I don't want to have to think about weight that much. With a 1,500 lb payload, I'll have to. With a 2,500-3,000 lb payload, I won't (within reason, of course).

I went from a 1500 to a 2018 2500 6.4L and the towing experience is so much better, even with our little R-Pod 195 (~4500 lbs loaded). This is especially true in serious crosswinds. A big difference, as you mention, is I no longer have to worry about weight.

 

[1STRAM2500]

Big thing I noticed going from a Tundra to Ram 2500 Tradesman was the significantly larger truck so I appreciate your concern over negotiating tight spots. What saves me is having the surround camera system, lets me pull into spots with confidence, no more telling the wife to get out and spot for me. Also, you do bounce a bit with the 2500, but I quickly got used to it. It will be good to see how your trip home from the dealer goes pulling the new TT with your 1500. Hopefully well, my Tundra was awesome til I stepped up to about 10K TT and no longer liked the experience. the 2022 2500 pulls the 10K up and down mountains fine with the 6.4L with 3.73s. I went back and forth on 4.10 vs 3.73 and settled on 3.73. Does great. What I do miss is how the Tundras 4.35 gearing would back 9K into my driveway or campsite at idle. I always have to give the 2500 some gas to keep it moving. The Airstreams are great TTs. Enjoy it and stay safe!

 

[dhay13]

Step-son had a 2020 Tundra with the 4.33s or whatever it was. Had a 9800lb tow capacity. I towed his 9300lb TT home from the dealer 2 hours away but he towed it to his camping spot with the Tundra and stopped at the scales. His GRAWR was I think 3900lbs. He was at about 4200lbs. We weighed it with my truck and we had 1100lbs tongue weight. He said his transmission temp light came on when trying to back it into the camping spot. BTW-we weighed it with both his truck and my truck but only checked TW with my truck. We adjusted the WDH so coupler height was akmost identical so TW should have been the same on each truck. I have the CAT weigh slips if anyone wants to see them

 

[EriikK]

I pull a toyhauler, 4500 lbs empty and 8000 full, probably over-full pretty often. I tow it with a 2015 6.4L 2500. The truck's only job is to tow, so I bought plenty of truck. But if I was daily driving it, I'd strongly consider the 1500.

As some have said, distance and frequency matter. I've dragged that trailer all over the country, over the mountains, with 3 or 4 or 5 bikes in it, for months at a time. Glad I had the 6.4 2500 although I sure spent a lot on fuel. Weekend trips, the 1500 should be fine.
For some years when money was tight I rented out the toyhauler on Outdoorsy. Most folks towed it with modern 1500's or F150's and everybody reported that it towed well. Modern trucks are so good, and a good WD hitch is important.

The test ride home from the trailer purchase will tell you a lot. If you are tuned in to your truck at all, you'll know within 50 miles whether this is a happy combination or not. I sure wouldn't spend money on a new truck before that! But it's good that you are thinking and considering, and willing to get more truck if you need to.

 

[Snowchief]

Same trailer rental place 2019 Rebel 3.92,5.7 vs 2022 Tradesman 2500 4.10,6.4.. 2500 all day all night.The 1500’s are more car like that said the 2500 all coils rides and handles great empty and better for hauling especially if you find yourself needing more your prepared.They’ll all do it I even use my old ones too!

 

[HDGoose]

I'm a little concerned about the RAWR. A guy I met on the Airstream forum has the exact trailer model I'm getting. He has an F-150 with a RAWR of 3800. The first time he weighed, he was 500 lbs over. Granted, he had a mini fridge and some other heavy items in the truck bed. But he was still 350 lbs over (4,150) even after lightening the load.

The RAWR on my truck is 4100. So, presuming I can match this guy's lighter load, I will be right at or slightly above the limit. It sounds like that's not a good idea.

I just test-drove a Rebel 2500 with the Cummins (they didn't have any 6.4s on the lot). I didn't mind the ride. Definitely stiffer, as you said, but I could be happy driving it. The bigger issue is just how enormous it is. Trying to park the 1500 in the small-ish parking lots in Bend is already a challenge, and that will be much harder with the 2500. My wife, especially, will hate it.

If we do get a 2500, it will be a 6.4 rather than the Cummins. I checked the payload on the door jam sticker on three of the Rebel 2500s they had on the lot (all with the Cummins engine). They ranged between 1700-1800. The payload on my Rebel 1500 is 1510. It doesn't make sense to switch to a 2500—and give up an easier around-town driving experience—just for 250-275 lbs more payload.

Do I understand correctly that the 6.4 gas Rebel 2500 should have 800-900 lbs. more payload, given the exact same options/configuration, simply because of the added weight of the Cummins diesel engine?

If so, a 6.4 2500 could be in my future. I still want to tow with the 1500 a few times (and weigh it to get the actual front/rear axle weight and overall weights) before deciding.

I have owned my 2008 toy hauler since 2016. I frequently max it out at 12K. I had a 2013 RAM 2500 diesel CC SB. That truck towed the camper well. I was at 90% of capacity with that truck.

April 2020 the local dealership and I came to a covid deal for a 2020 RAM 3500 dually HO diesel CC LB truck for a great price. I thought we were going to replace my older trailer (with e newer heavier one) but it was well repaired instead. My wife noticed a huge ride difference while towing. She stated that the dually feels more planted and now she can ride for 500 miles in one day to reach a destination, and not be down the next day. My RAM 2500 her limit was 350.

If I own a trailer, I will also own a truck that has excess capacity to tow it. I plan for max GVWR of the trailer, and passengers, cargo, tools, coolers in the truck. All those numbers add up quickly. Taking all that into account, I have a tow vehicle that is rated for 20-25% more than that load.

"Can" a 1500 do it? Depends on terrain, distance and frequency. I see people driving overloaded all the time. I also know many who broke down after towing heavy. Then they upgraded to a larger tow vehicle. Towing an Airstream is different that towing a boat of the same weight. The aerodynamics is completely different. I remember the 1/2 ton vehicle manuals used to state the frontal size limits (wind resistance) in addition to the weight limits for a truck.

As folks have found out, not all 1/2, 3/4 and 1 tons have the same capacity.

My 2013 and my 2020 were/are Tradesman level trims with the "level 2 equipment group" that has the middle "radio" and many usable features. Tradesman have more towing and cargo capacity than the upper trims do. Yet are nicely equipped. Maybe consider the Tradesman trim level? You may be surprised!

 

[HDGoose]

Pretty much agree with everything on this post. I think the OP, along with a lot of people who post this question, are just WAY overthinking the whole payload and weight ratings.

The OP is simply not pulling that big of a trailer. I would make sure the current truck is setup properly (would recommend a WDH) and see how it feels. If the rear axle is rated for 4,000 lbs. and you are 200 lbs. over realistically it's not that much. Not like it will run forever at the max 4,000 lbs. and if you put an extra 200 lbs. on it something magical happens and it immediately blows up.
For anybody reading this....I'm not saying to completely ignore the rated numbers, but use a little common sense. Guess I just come from a background of farming and construction where we were constantly hauling trailers around. We never took the trailers to the scales and decided not to haul something because it might be 100 lbs. heavy on a 15,000 lb. overall truck and trailer setup. But we did use a little common sense and didn't try to haul a 20,000 lb. trailer with an 1/2 ton truck.

You also probably were not towing long distances.

 

[HDGoose]

Big thing I noticed going from a Tundra to Ram 2500 Tradesman was the significantly larger truck so I appreciate your concern over negotiating tight spots. What saves me is having the surround camera system, lets me pull into spots with confidence, no more telling the wife to get out and spot for me. Also, you do bounce a bit with the 2500, but I quickly got used to it. It will be good to see how your trip home from the dealer goes pulling the new TT with your 1500. Hopefully well, my Tundra was awesome til I stepped up to about 10K TT and no longer liked the experience. the 2022 2500 pulls the 10K up and down mountains fine with the 6.4L with 3.73s. I went back and forth on 4.10 vs 3.73 and settled on 3.73. Does great. What I do miss is how the Tundras 4.35 gearing would back 9K into my driveway or campsite at idle. I always have to give the 2500 some gas to keep it moving. The Airstreams are great TTs. Enjoy it and stay safe!

If I was not 6'7", I would own an Airstream!

 

[2003F350]

Step-son had a 2020 Tundra with the 4.33s or whatever it was. Had a 9800lb tow capacity. I towed his 9300lb TT home from the dealer 2 hours away but he towed it to his camping spot with the Tundra and stopped at the scales. His GRAWR was I think 3900lbs. He was at about 4200lbs. We weighed it with my truck and we had 1100lbs tongue weight. He said his transmission temp light came on when trying to back it into the camping spot. BTW-we weighed it with both his truck and my truck but only checked TW with my truck. We adjusted the WDH so coupler height was akmost identical so TW should have been the same on each truck. I have the CAT weigh slips if anyone wants to see them

That's why I NEVER pay attention to the 'tow rating' of a vehicle but rather axle ratings and to a lesser extent payload. That tundra was well over his axle rating and probably WELL over payload, which is probably a big part of why his trans temp gauge came on.

The fact of the matter is you can NEVER get even CLOSE to the 'tow capacity' of a truck with an RV. The tow rating is based on starting and stopping a load under a set of parameters to come up with a number, but I don't think it takes into account the tongue weight of the load, which means it's almost always done with a flatbed with a load on it that can be adjusted to keep the tongue weight right. You simply can't do that with an RV - the vast majority of the weight is static and CANNOT be moved. Sure you can load all your gear in the back to try to make some difference, but the furniture, walls, kitchen appliances, etc. are all fixed (unless you decide to tear apart your entire rig I guess). The only RVs that allow for any serious redistribution of weight are toy haulers, because you can add a lot of weight in the rear that will lower your tongue weight...but if you are going to run without whatever toys you normally put back there it's going to be a COMPLETELY different pull.

 

[dhay13]

That's why I NEVER pay attention to the 'tow rating' of a vehicle but rather axle ratings and to a lesser extent payload. That tundra was well over his axle rating and probably WELL over payload, which is probably a big part of why his trans temp gauge came on.

The fact of the matter is you can NEVER get even CLOSE to the 'tow capacity' of a truck with an RV. The tow rating is based on starting and stopping a load under a set of parameters to come up with a number, but I don't think it takes into account the tongue weight of the load, which means it's almost always done with a flatbed with a load on it that can be adjusted to keep the tongue weight right. You simply can't do that with an RV - the vast majority of the weight is static and CANNOT be moved. Sure you can load all your gear in the back to try to make some difference, but the furniture, walls, kitchen appliances, etc. are all fixed (unless you decide to tear apart your entire rig I guess). The only RVs that allow for any serious redistribution of weight are toy haulers, because you can add a lot of weight in the rear that will lower your tongue weight...but if you are going to run without whatever toys you normally put back there it's going to be a COMPLETELY different pull.

Exactly. He towed it about 15 miles to his campsite then sold the TT before the end of season so never towed it again. He found out quick why a 1/2 ton shouldn't be towing that big of a TT

 

[Rmoore7167]

Glad I came across this post as I have a very similiar set up...except a 25Foot Flying cloud. Note I only have a 3.21 I just took mine from oregon coast over to Nevada and was concerned about temps and overheating. Here is some real numbers I experienced in the drive. Worst case was over a long pass out of Medford; Coolant 222 deg, Trans averaged 210 but hit 217 breifly and then down, Oil 248 degs. On an average road (some up and down) Coolant was between 195-204, trans was 192-204 degrees and the Oil temp was 215-240. I was told by one mechanic that this is pushing the limits and to get a 2500. Was considering but then a dealer just told me that there is a recall coming out for 2019-2023 Ram 1500s with an ABS recall and no solution and moment. Therefore my truck trade in just dropped signicantly!! so left with truck so as original poster said with these real numbers and cargo maxed out is this a real concern? ALso...I was a dummy with above numbers and forgot to hit the tow/haul button!! would that have made a difference?? Dont want to be stressed out everytime I go out!

Should I upgrade to a 3.73 or other?

 

[nlambert182]

I doubt that your gear ratio or tow/haul would have changed the cooling temps by any noticeable amount.

What you likely saw was the truck working extremely hard through the passes to tow the trailer. Looks like it did fine on flat ground. 220 is about the max that you want the trans to ever see. Much over that and the fluid will start to break down. At 240 degrees on the engine, you're tip toeing into problematic territory.

Looks like you were ok for that tow and stayed beneath what would be considered problem territory, but I personally wouldn't want to do that very often. Without knowing your weights, etc.. and based on your numbers, that mechanic may have been right and you "might" be pushing the limits of your truck. A gear swap may not improve that by much.

 

[rzr6-4]

Should I upgrade to a 3.73 or other?

If you tow often enough to justify the time money and effort of switching to 3.73 gears, then you tow enough you should be switching to a 2500 instead. I wouldn't spend a bunch of money trying to improve the performance of what will always be borderline for your needs.

As @nlambert182 said, we don't really know anything for sure without your weights, but you certainly are pushing it.

 

[Rmoore7167]

well have some weights but not official from a scale.

GAWR Front3900 lbs
GAWR Rear 4100 lbs
GVWR 7100 lbs
Max cargo 1500 lbs
My current cargo load with out kayaks, Generator and Ecoflow 1548Lbs
With the above 1848 lbs note load this weight as of now

The airstream published tougne weight is 835lbs (DRY) ive seen several posts online that when loaded with basics and propane its close to 1000.

SO I i would assume Im REALLY pushing or exceeding limit here! The dealers (2) so far say Im fine.....i just dont buy it.

there is literally no 2500 gas I can find in my price range that doesnt have alot of miles 80K + plus with recall coming the value of my truck currently crashed

 

[Rmoore7167]

BTW I had no intention of hijacking Switters post but this all does seem relavent to his situation as well....so apologies if inappropriate.

 

[rzr6-4]

With the above 1848 lbs note load this weight as of now

The airstream published tougne weight is 835lbs (DRY) ive seen several posts online that when loaded with basics and propane its close to 1000.

Are you saying you have 1850lbs just in the truck, THEN you are adding 1000lb tongue weight on top of that? If so, then yes you are very overloaded.

If that 1850 includes the tongue, then you are probly a bit heavier than I would want for a 1500 but still workable.