3.0L Hurricane Updates?

[ramffml]

They are testing the truck as the manufacturer provided it and letting it do/work as the manufacturer programed it. If they shift manually they are test8ng how they drive it, not the way the manufacturer programmed it. They also come out and say many times in many videos that this is what they are doing and that in the real world they would manually shift it. But if they do that they aren't testing how well the trucks tow/haul mode does on its own.

Also, they are testing the whole truck so if their is a flaw in the transmission tuning, it wouldn't be revealed if they manually shift. In any such test you have to pay attention to what they say and what they are actually testing and of course apply a grain of salt if their scenario doesn't match theirs. For example in the mid-west I don't typically worry about climbing 11,000 foot mountain passes. When I occasionally go west I'll just go slow if I need to. Not perfect does not equal useless.

You're missing my point. Yes they uncovered a transmission tuning issue. But no, that 6.6 GM gasser is NOT 3 minutes slower up the eisenhower than the Ram 6.4 is. If you drive exactly as THEY do (like mindless morons with the pedal to the floor), perhaps. If you drive like you know what you're doing, then you can get that truck up the hill just as quick as the Ram depending on other factors like trim/weight, gear ratio etc.

Basic physics. The GM engine puts out more power to the ground than the 6.4 hemi does. If you force a downshift if/when you run into that transmission tuning issue, it will pull up the hill faster than the Ram. It's a mathematical certainty.

So again: the issue with the GM is not the engine, or the truck being some POS, it just needs a little tweak in the transmission. And I suspect with the new 10 speed for 2024, the GM will outrun the Ram by some amount now; more power, more gears, more ability to hold near-peak power in more situations.

 

[ramffml]

You could not be more misinformed.....Try to find a V8 in most if not all current over the road trailer trucks...All have straight 6 engines. Loads of real engineers on YouTube discussing why a straight six, for heavy applications, FAR outperforms a V8.....V8 is for horsepower...Straight 6 is for torque......

I'm not an expert in engine design, but it's not always that simple. The new Ford v8 power stroke decimates all other 1 ton diesels in both hp AND torque, both the duramax (v8) and the cummins (straight six). Something like 1200+ lb/ft of torque.

Certain engine designs do lead to producing more torque, an undersquare engine like the GM 2.7 turbo and the cummins, but that's due to the length of the stroke and not the fact that it's a straight vs v.

But hey I'm happy to learn if I'm wrong, so ... fire away.

 

[Riccochet]

Inline 6's are naturally more balanced engines than V8's. Less stresses being applied internally lend to longer life. Which is mostly why CAT, Detroit, Cummins, Mack, Volvo, Mercedes all use inline 6's in their industrial engines. You don't see Powerstroke or Duramax engines in semi's for good reason.

 

[rvance]

They already have everything in the parts bin to build a 426/7L ,and i think thats the way they should of went.

They have everything in the bin to build the 488. Why stop with 426 when Ford has the 7.3/445?

 

[JerryETX]

If you think Ram is "sucking hind tit" watch the TFL Truck towing tests on gas engine 2500's. The Ram 2500 they test actually beats the Chevy 6.6 gas even though theoreticallt y Chevy should be better as it has 36 more ft lbd of torque. May be due to the 6 sp transmission GM uses, but the Ram still wins against everything except the Ford 7.3. Also Ford has been doing turbo 6's for many years but still doesn't put them in the Super Duty even though the 3.5 ecoboost makes more torque than the 7.3. That should tell you something,

I have watched at least one of those 6.4 towing videos with Mr. Truck in the video and watched the 6.6 and you're right it didn't do well but now GM is putting 10 speeds. I don't know if that'll help but it should be an improvement in towing performance. We'll see. Ram doesn't have an answer to Ford though. Their 7.3 is strong for a gas engine. Yeah the ecoboost technically has more torque and tows really well (I put 80K miles on one) for a half ton but doesn't tow heavier loads (10k plus) as good as my 6.4 Hemi does. If those 7.3's weren't north of 60k for a middle of the road model I would be driving one and pulling my camper a lot easier than I do with my 6.4.

I'm not saying the 6.4 is a dog it's not a bad towing engine for a gas. It pulls my camper (10,500 lbs) fairly well until I hit any type of incline. I just think Ram can and should do better.

 

[JerryETX]

Hopefully you are only talking "generally" about big sixes fitting in the RAM HD.
Especially since the CTD is really a "big six", both external dimensions and internal C.I.D.

For sure.

 

[Ratman6161]

You're missing my point. Yes they uncovered a transmission tuning issue. But no, that 6.6 GM gasser is NOT 3 minutes slower up the eisenhower than the Ram 6.4 is. If you drive exactly as THEY do (like mindless morons with the pedal to the floor), perhaps. If you drive like you know what you're doing, then you can get that truck up the hill just as quick as the Ram depending on other factors like trim/weight, gear ratio etc.

Basic physics. The GM engine puts out more power to the ground than the 6.4 hemi does. If you force a downshift if/when you run into that transmission tuning issue, it will pull up the hill faster than the Ram. It's a mathematical certainty.

So again: the issue with the GM is not the engine, or the truck being some POS, it just needs a little tweak in the transmission. And I suspect with the new 10 speed for 2024, the GM will outrun the Ram by some amount now; more power, more gears, more ability to hold near-peak power in more situations.

Actually I just re-watched the video where they tested the 2020 Chevy with the Gas 6.6. You are incorrect on some things. At 11:52 in the video, they are at 5000 RPM and 30 MPH going up the pass. It had to get down slow enough (25 mph in the place I'm talking about) before it could downshift without over revving. At a similar point with the Ram where they were hitting 5000 RPM they were hitting between 40 and 45 MPH. That's a consequence of the Chevy having too big a jump between gears...which I'm assuming will be fixed with the 10 speed in the 2024's. But yes, in their current state, the Ram is faster regardless of who is driving if only because 40 > 30 and neither truck can shift down one more gear at that point.

Also, the Ram was NOT 3 minutes faster. It was 1 min, 14 sec faster. The three minutes is from the section of the Ram Video where they do a flashback to the F-250 with the 7.3L to show what they are comparing against. That's the truck (the Ford) that was 3 min faster. The times were Ford 8:42, Ram 10:29 and Chevy 11:53. One final point: They also lament that the Ram they had had the 3.73 rear end rather than the optional 4.10. With the Chevy's there is no option. The 3.73 is the only one available.

In any event, my discussion wasn't intended to generate a debate about TFL and their testing procedures but just to say that the Ram is not "sucking hind tit" (your words) and is competitive with anything but the Ford 7.3. I'm also not saying the Chevy or any other Truck is a "POS) (again, your words, not mine). I actually like Chevy's a lot and owned 2 GMC's before going with the Ram. I probably would have bought another GMC since going to the mountains would be a rarity for me, but a crew cab standard box Chevy or GMC 2500 will not fit in my garage (my previous 1500's did). So I definitely don't think the GM trucks are a "POS". Ill look forward to them testing a 24 Chevy with the 10 speed but I'm pleased with my Ram.

 

[ramffml]

Actually I just re-watched the video where they tested the 2020 Chevy with the Gas 6.6. You are incorrect on some things. At 11:52 in the video, they are at 5000 RPM and 30 MPH going up the pass. It had to get down slow enough (25 mph in the place I'm talking about) before it could downshift without over revving. At a similar point with the Ram where they were hitting 5000 RPM they were hitting between 40 and 45 MPH. That's a consequence of the Chevy having too big a jump between gears...which I'm assuming will be fixed with the 10 speed in the 2024's. But yes, in their current state, the Ram is faster regardless of who is driving if only because 40 > 30 and neither truck can shift down one more gear at that point.

Also, the Ram was NOT 3 minutes faster. It was 1 min, 14 sec faster. The three minutes is from the section of the Ram Video where they do a flashback to the F-250 with the 7.3L to show what they are comparing against. That's the truck (the Ford) that was 3 min faster. The times were Ford 8:42, Ram 10:29 and Chevy 11:53. One final point: They also lament that the Ram they had had the 3.73 rear end rather than the optional 4.10. With the Chevy's there is no option. The 3.73 is the only one available.

In any event, my discussion wasn't intended to generate a debate about TFL and their testing procedures but just to say that the Ram is not "sucking hind tit" (your words) and is competitive with anything but the Ford 7.3. I'm also not saying the Chevy or any other Truck is a "POS) (again, your words, not mine). I actually like Chevy's a lot and owned 2 GMC's before going with the Ram. I probably would have bought another GMC since going to the mountains would be a rarity for me, but a crew cab standard box Chevy or GMC 2500 will not fit in my garage (my previous 1500's did). So I definitely don't think the GM trucks are a "POS". Ill look forward to them testing a 24 Chevy with the 10 speed but I'm pleased with my Ram.

It wasn't me that said anything about "POS" or "ram sucking hind tit".

I will have to watch the video again, but I know for a fact that the chevy was lugging under 3000 RPMs for a fair amount of time. That's why so many people called them out for it. Unless we're talking different videos.

Gear ratio is completely irrelevant for this specific test. If the truck needs more power it will downshift. If it has more power than it needs it will upshift. Gear ratio does nothing for 8 - 10 speeds climbing a hill at 60 mph. If you were doing 0 to 30 pulls with a ton of weight behind you, different story.

 

[Wild one]

They have everything in the bin to build the 488. Why stop with 426 when Ford has the 7.3/445?

The later Viper V10's are even bigger at 511.5 cubes,lol

Torque Monster: A Closer Look Inside the SRT Viper V10 - EngineLabs

Sure to draw a few snide protests, but the SRT Viper V10 boasts the highest torque of any production naturally aspirated engine. Here's a closer look at the all-alloy, OHV engine that features variable valve timing,

www.enginelabs.com

 

[Ratman6161]

It wasn't me that said anything about "POS" or "ram sucking hind tit".

I will have to watch the video again, but I know for a fact that the chevy was lugging under 3000 RPMs for a fair amount of time. That's why so many people called them out for it. Unless we're talking different videos.

Gear ratio is completely irrelevant for this specific test. If the truck needs more power it will downshift. If it has more power than it needs it will upshift. Gear ratio does nothing for 8 - 10 speeds climbing a hill at 60 mph. If you were doing 0 to 30 pulls with a ton of weight behind you, different story.

It will downshift...unless downshifting would cause the engine to exceed its red line.