4.7 REBUILD QUESTIONS

[bimmertech2000]

OK SO MY 2002 4.7 FINALLY DROPPED A VALVE SEAT AT 248,000 MILES. LUCKILY IT DIDNT BLOW THE ENGINE UP, IT JUST LODGED THE VALVE OPEN. EVEN THOUGH MY FAMILY IS THE ORIGINAL OWNERS OF THIS TRUCK AND OIL WAS CHANGED RELIGOUSLY EVERY 3k MILES, ITS ALL SLUDGED UP AND DEFINITELY NEEDS A REBUILD.

I AM LOOKING AT 3 OPTIONS: BUY A NEW LONGBLOCK, REBUILD WITH MACHINE SHOP WORK, OR 5.7 HEMI SWAP (SINCE THERE IS A GOOD AMOUNT OF INFORMATION OUT THERE). BUT I AM HAVING TROUBLE FINDING EXACT ANSWERS FOR THE 4.7 OPTIONS.


*** CAN I USE A 2009 AND UP LONGBLOCK AND JUST SWAP THE CRANK AND CAM RINGS TO GO ALONG WITH MY THREE-CONNECTOR PCM?

*** DO THE 2009 UP CYLINDER HEADS DIRECTLY BOLT UP TO 99-2008 4.7L ENGINES? FROM WHAT I READ THEY ARE REWORKED TO FLOW BETTER THAN EARLIER YEAR MODELS.

*** WOULD IT BE BETTER TO JUST REBUILD MY BLOCK WITH AN "AIRRAM BUILD KIT" WITH 10:1 PISTONS. BUY/REWORK NEW CYLINDER HEADS. USE THE 2010 THROTTLE BODY AND INTAKE MANIFOLD? REASON I AM ASKING THESE QUESTIONS IS THAT IF I GO BACK IN WITH A 4.7, I WOULD LIKE TO GET THE 330hp OF THE NEWEST 4.7s INSTEAD OF THEN 235hp THAT MY 2002 ORIGINALLY CAME WITH.

*** IF THIS IS NOT REALLY POSSIBLE, THEN I WILL DEFINITELY DO A HEMI SWAP. I AM A MECHANIC OF 20 YEARS AND HAVE PLENTY OF CUSTOMIZING EXPERIENCE. I JUST DIDNT REALLY WANT TO PUT ANOTHER USED ENGINE IN MY TRUCK, HENCE THE REASON I WANTED TO BUILD OR BUY MY 4.7L.


IVE BEEN READING AS MUCH AS I CAN FIND ABOUT THE HEMI SWAP, BUT I CANT FIND EXACT ANSWERS ABOUT THE 4.7 BUILD. I TRIED EMAILING AIRRAM, SINCE I FIGURED HE'D KNOW THE MOST ABOUT 4.7L COMPATIBILITY, BUT HE HASNT RESPONDED. ANY HELP IS REALLY APPRECIATED. THAKN YOU,


>>>ROBERT W

 

[MayerMR]

I am currently rebuilding a 4.7L right now as well. I'd say just rebuild your own. I bought this rebuild kit and it just arrived today. I looked through it, and even though it was the cheapest one I could find, I looked through it and gotta say, I'm pretty pleased with the quality of the parts. I've not gone through every one of the boxes yet, but the ones I have gone through are looking pretty decent quality. Rebuilding this engine hasn't been hard. Just get a manual, tear it down as per the instructions. Take the heads and the block to a local machine shop and have the heads rebuilt. Also have the block cleaned and prepped. Then put her back together. Simplest and cheapest option.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/04-07-Dodg...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648

Granted, you'd need the one for your '02. But they have one of those as well, I believe.

 

[ViolentMouse]

I will be honest. the older 4.7 H.O versus the newer 4.7 had the same performance within a small margin. so it's not really worth the hassle.

a 5.7 would yield better power top and bottom, be easier to get aftermarket parts and support, and given the better power to C.I.D ratio, it would likely be more fuel efficient.

If you do go 5.7, make sure you get a high quality aftermarket camshaft...I have been replacing 5.7 cams at an alarming rate lately.

 

[ViolentMouse]

Oh and if you do a 5.7, you'll have to do some homework on the year they changed the serial communications....I think if you got a 2003 donor motor/trans/ECM and engine harness it's plug and play. if you got something after the date they changed the communication protocol your other modules (instrument cluster, overhead console) won't talk to anything and it will frustrate you to no end. I just cannot remember the model year they swapped it... I had looked into it myself many moons ago, but decided to keep my old magnum. Best luck.

 

[HemiLonestar]

I will be honest. the older 4.7 H.O versus the newer 4.7 had the same performance within a small margin. so it's not really worth the hassle.

The old HO was 260hp, the 2008-13 version was 310hp....I wouldn't exactly call 50hp with better heads and intake a small margin lol. That's the exact difference between the pre-eagle and eagle truck 5.7's lol.

I think if you got a 2003 donor motor/trans/ECM and engine harness it's plug and play.

No hemi swap into a vehicle that didn't come with one is ever plug and play, no matter the year.

 

[2fast4u97gts]

The old HO was 260hp, the 2008-13 version was 310hp....I wouldn't exactly call 50hp with better heads and intake a small margin lol. That's the exact difference between the pre-eagle and eagle truck 5.7's lol.


No hemi swap into a vehicle that didn't come with one is ever plug and play, no matter the year.

But do the 08 and up heads bolt directly to the earlier 4.7L blocks? Because if I can rebuild with approx 310 HP vs the 235 that mine originally had, then I would gladly do that over fighting a hemi swap and be back on the road quicker

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[HemiLonestar]

But do the 08 and up heads bolt directly to the earlier 4.7L blocks? Because if I can rebuild with approx 310 HP vs the 235 that mine originally had, then I would gladly do that over fighting a hemi swap and be back on the road quicker

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First of all, how many profiles do you have? Because you posted this same exact question on another forum but under this name.
Secondly, yes the heads will bolt on and the cams are clear of PTV contact on earlier short blocks. What you need to figure out is any harness alterations needed, including firing the secondary coil (there are two per cylinder in the later heads). Will also need a TB adapter to use your cable TB on an intake manifold designed for fly-by-wire. While you could use your original intake, you don't really wanna choke down those heads with your crappy original intake. Use the 08+. Then a custom tune. Keep in mind, this doesn't guarantee you an automatic 310hp; could be more, could be less.

 

[2fast4u97gts]

Oh and if you do a 5.7, you'll have to do some homework on the year they changed the serial communications....I think if you got a 2003 donor motor/trans/ECM and engine harness it's plug and play. if you got something after the date they changed the communication protocol your other modules (instrument cluster, overhead console) won't talk to anything and it will frustrate you to no end. I just cannot remember the model year they swapped it... I had looked into it myself many moons ago, but decided to keep my old magnum. Best luck.

I know that doing an 03-05 hemi 5.7 is the easiest way to go. Ive only come across a few that went with the 6.1 and I highly doubt it would be anything easy especially since I have emissions here in Atlanta. I have the early JTEC pcm in my truck being a 2002. So going with a Hemi automatically makes it a CAN-BUS, correct? But it looks like several have done it and worked out their ABS and AC issues

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[2fast4u97gts]

First of all, how many profiles do you have? Because you posted this same exact question on another forum but under this name.
Secondly, yes the heads will bolt on and the cams are clear of PTV contact on earlier short blocks. What you need to figure out is any harness alterations needed, including firing the secondary coil (there are two per cylinder in the later heads). Will also need a TB adapter to use your cable TB on an intake manifold designed for fly-by-wire. While you could use your original intake, you don't really wanna choke down those heads with your crappy original intake. Use the 08+. Then a custom tune. Keep in mind, this doesn't guarantee you an automatic 310hp; could be more, could be less.

I copied my thread to 4 of the main RAM forums

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[2fast4u97gts]

First of all, how many profiles do you have? Because you posted this same exact question on another forum but under this name.
Secondly, yes the heads will bolt on and the cams are clear of PTV contact on earlier short blocks. What you need to figure out is any harness alterations needed, including firing the secondary coil (there are two per cylinder in the later heads). Will also need a TB adapter to use your cable TB on an intake manifold designed for fly-by-wire. While you could use your original intake, you don't really wanna choke down those heads with your crappy original intake. Use the 08+. Then a custom tune. Keep in mind, this doesn't guarantee you an automatic 310hp; could be more, could be less.

Also, Im more than likely going to stick my original harness and just block off the second spark plug hole or just join the signal wires. Electrical doesn't bother me, I have worked on BMWs for past 15 years. I was just wanting to make sure that if I got the newer heads, they would line up correctly.
I figure with 10:1 pistons, 08 heads, 08 throttle body and intake, electric fan and of course a proper tune should put me right at the 300+ hp mark

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[HemiLonestar]

I know that doing an 03-05 hemi 5.7 is the easiest way to go. Ive only come across a few that went with the 6.1 and I highly doubt it would be anything easy especially since I have emissions here in Atlanta. I have the early JTEC pcm in my truck being a 2002. So going with a Hemi automatically makes it a CAN-BUS, correct? But it looks like several have done it and worked out their ABS and AC issues

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No lol, it does not. You have a PCI bus truck, which went all the way through 2005. Even swapping in a hemi does not make it a CAN bus truck. 2006 introduced CAN bus in the trucks. You can't really mix the two. The factory did on some platforms, but you are not Mopar lol.

I copied my thread to 4 of the main RAM forums

Ah, you only have two screen names here then. I moderate on one of those other ones and we spam out people with multiple screen names.

Also, Im more than likely going to stick my original harness and just block off the second spark plug hole or just join the signal wires. Electrical doesn't bother me, I have worked on BMWs for past 15 years. I was just wanting to make sure that if I got the newer heads, they would line up correctly.
I figure with 10:1 pistons, 08 heads, 08 throttle body and intake, electric fan and of course a proper tune should put me right at the 300+ hp mark

You'll wanna have that second plug going just for good flame propagation.

 

[2fast4u97gts]

No lol, it does not. You have a PCI bus truck, which went all the way through 2005. Even swapping in a hemi does not make it a CAN bus truck. 2006 introduced CAN bus in the trucks. You can't really mix the two. The factory did on some platforms, but you are not Mopar lol.


Ah, you only have two screen names here then.

View attachment 222559

I mistyped about the CAN BUS. What I meant was I thought that all Hemi's were designed under CAN communication. I know it doesn't change mine...lol

As far as the screen names, I didn't realize I had another name. I will double check though. I've been using the 2fast4u97gts since early 2000s and I had several Ford Probes



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[HemiLonestar]

As far as the screen names, I didn't realize I had another name. I will double check though. I've been using the 2fast4u97gts since early 2000s and I had several Ford Probes

The original post on this thread:


The EXACT same post under your screen name:

 

[bimmertech2000]

Screen name check

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[ViolentMouse]

Lonestar remembered the year changeover for PCI to can-bus... awesome.. i need to put that to memory.... so any hemi from 2003 to 2005 would be a drop in with the proper ECU and engine harness.

all the gauges/overhead console/central timing module would talk. and if memory serve it doesn't even need to be programmed they were hot swappable on PCI, where on 06 and later CAN systems you had to use chrysler interface tool to make them all talk to each other.

I won't say anything bad about the 4.7 motor... mostly because I replace a lot of them and that's good income for me. But yeah if the head has two plugs, and they are offset and not near the center, you MUST use both plugs. I cannot begin to stress the importance of this. If your flame front is weak on one side and strong on the other you will be trying to rotate the piston around the wrist pin while it's in the cylinder... and what will start as some mild cylinder rubbing that will turn into piston slap, and eventually piston failure really really quick.

not the best way break in a fresh motor

 

[HemiLonestar]

so any hemi from 2003 to 2005 would be a drop in with the proper ECU and engine harness.

all the gauges/overhead console/central timing module would talk. and if memory serve it doesn't even need to be programmed they were hot swappable on PCI, where on 06 and later CAN systems you had to use chrysler interface tool to make them all talk to each other.

Still not a plug and play drop in, but it would be easier. Any 03-08 5.7 engine would work, just need the PCM & harness from an 04-05 (add TCM if using harness from an 03). Depending on how the truck is configured, some modules may still need to be VIN matched to work and/or initialized. CAN is amazing, but that much more of a PITA when trying to do something like this.

 

[bimmertech2000]

Ok, so I've sourced a 2005 5.7 engine assembly (under 100k miles) with full harness, all accessories attached for under $2k. I know I need to go to the junk yard and get the accelerator pedal assembly all the way to the box under the battery, a pcm, fuel line extension, radiator hoses, motor mounts, ac hoses and power steering lines. Are there any other critical parts for the swap that I am needing/missing to do the swap?
I will be replacing the water pump, vc gaskets, oil pan gasket, heater hoses, and might clean up the engine with a little paint.
I've been reading on everyone's hemi swap threads to try and get a much info as possible, just wanting little look over by someone. Thank you for all the info so far

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[BlacksheepRam]

First of all, how many profiles do you have? Because you posted this same exact question on another forum but under this name.
Secondly, yes the heads will bolt on and the cams are clear of PTV contact on earlier short blocks. What you need to figure out is any harness alterations needed, including firing the secondary coil (there are two per cylinder in the later heads). Will also need a TB adapter to use your cable TB on an intake manifold designed for fly-by-wire. While you could use your original intake, you don't really wanna choke down those heads with your crappy original intake. Use the 08+. Then a custom tune. Keep in mind, this doesn't guarantee you an automatic 310hp; could be more, could be less.

You also have to figure that the 08+ changes also have a lightened rotating assembly( powder forged rods with a narrowed width and special tapered design at the pin end), High compression 9.8:1 pistons which have a 1.162 CH and a smaller .904 wrist pin...also lightened... Currently rebuilding mine, so im fairly versed....