5.7 e-torque to Hurricane?

[Docwagon1776]

True, but eventually auto transmissions got better. Now we're to a point of overimproving them. The same can be said for engines. The old 4.0 and the Ford 300 I6 were absolutely bulletproof engines. The idea that they're going to recreate it with an aluminum block and slap a turbo on it for instant reliability and power is silly. It is a new platform. It will take a long time to get it right.

Oh, no argument from me. Modern autos are faster than manuals and will hold up to more power. They are better at pretty much anything measurable. Fun factor is subjective, and really the only justification for manuals these days.

 

[2003F350]

More information on the specific ITBC you’re referring to please?

I’m sure I can do the installation myself, it’s the flash I can’t do.

TIA

If you do a search on here for the ITBC you'll find pages of discussion on which one is likely right for your truck, you will even find the right part number.

 

[Lsujker]

U got one to report on? Me personally heck no. But that is my situation and opinion and wat works for me.

Hell No! You never buy a first year release. Ha.

Early adopters always suffer the growing pains for others. Without them, products will never improve.

 

[farout75]

My dealer is tempting me with some low prices on the new ‘25s. Currently have the’21 Bighorn with the e-torque Hemi, bought a small camper last year and would really like a towing package (mirrors, brake controller).

Probably been asked before, but wondered if there were any issues moving from the Hemi to the Hurricane 6. Looks like the EPA estimates are similar on MPG.

Thanks

Before you buy go to Youtube and see the many problems the Hurricame has. Why do think RAM is bringing back the 5.&?

 

[testerdahl]

Define "better". The HO will have more power, but the Hemi will live longer.

He had to design an engine based on criteria that has nothing to do with what is best for reliablity/durability etc.

I agree that the hemi could use an update, replacement. It's what they replaced it WITH that I have a problem.

The hemi is still competitive both in terms of power and MPG, with the 5.0, 5.3, and 6.2. Not bad for a 20 year old engine eh?

Hemi will outlive the HO? Ah, yes the fear over turbos. I just did a story on a 200k mile Tundra with a turbocharged engine. I'm currently working on a story with a dozen Ford F-150 EcoBoost trucks with over 200k miles on them ranging in age from 2013 to today. They are for sale on Carfax and looking over the free reports, I'm not finding "turbos replaced" anywhere.

For durability, are you suggesting because he had a target to meet global emissions, he didn't give any consideration to life of the engine? Please tell me you are not.

The HEMI is behind on HP and MPG with the competition moving to more efficient engines. GM's lineup, like you pointed out, is currently being worked on for new replacements. They realize the engines are becoming outdated.

 

[2003F350]

Hemi will outlive the HO? Ah, yes the fear over turbos. I just did a story on a 200k mile Tundra with a turbocharged engine. I'm currently working on a story with a dozen Ford F-150 EcoBoost trucks with over 200k miles on them ranging in age from 2013 to today. They are for sale on Carfax and looking over the free reports, I'm not finding "turbos replaced" anywhere.

For durability, are you suggesting because he had a target to meet global emissions, he didn't give any consideration to life of the engine? Please tell me you are not.

The HEMI is behind on HP and MPG with the competition moving to more efficient engines. GM's lineup, like you pointed out, is currently being worked on for new replacements. They realize the engines are becoming outdated.

Personally (I can't speak for some of the others in this thread), it's not a fear of turbos or any particular part of the engine. It's just that it's new, and not knowing their design process, I don't know where the weak points of it are going to be. I would personally rather wait it out and see how it performs for a couple years at least, before passing any kind of judgement. I'm like that with most things like this.

I didn't get my wife a new F150 for several years after the 2.7/3.5 ecoboost engines came out. Glad I didn't, they had a few kinks to work out regarding oil leaks and whatnot. Her F150 we did buy had a 2.7 and it was a great engine. Her Expedition has a 3.5 and moves that tank pretty well and still gets 22-24 mpg. Our Bronco has a 2.7, and while I haven't personally done it, there are some guys who have put JUST a tune on basically the exact same rig and it'll pull the front tires off the ground a couple inches.

It's like that with EVERY new product. There are inevitably going to be hiccups/issues, and usually the first models suffer the most. History has shown this to usually be the case.

Do I think this new Hurricane could be a good replacement for the Hemi, in a time when turbos and smaller displacements are here to stay and big V8s are on the way out? Yes. But with such a new architecture, it's going to need a few years to prove itself, JUST like the 6.7 PSD did. Just like the Duramax did. At one time, even the venerable Cummins was new and needed to prove itself.

Don't get me wrong, I love the sound of a healthy V8. I'd rather row through the gears of a manual transmission than let the computer do the shifting. But those things are going away, between customer demands (most people just need 4 wheels and a powertrain to get them from A to B) and emissions. And other than a select few, OEMs aren't going to keep around a 'limited run' of vehicles with a big V8 in it just because a few of us here want one - it's not cost effective for them, and it's not a bargain for us either because we would be paying the premium for it.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Hemi will outlive the HO? Ah, yes the fear over turbos. I just did a story on a 200k mile Tundra with a turbocharged engine. I'm currently working on a story with a dozen Ford F-150 EcoBoost trucks with over 200k miles on them ranging in age from 2013 to today. They are for sale on Carfax and looking over the free reports, I'm not finding "turbos replaced" anywhere.

Ford sold 9.5 million F-150s in the US since 2013. Finding a dozen with any given mileage proves as much as finding a dozen that blew up on under 15k, even if we assume that every repair is reported (which is far from true). Statistically meaningless.

That's not to say the ecoboost is a bad motor or the Hurricane will be, but unless you have large data sets any conclusion on likely lifespan is useless except as clickbait or echo chamber food.

 

[Bighorn_Brown]

A brake controller and mirrors are easily added to your current truck, without the expense of moving to a new truck in its first year of production.

Personally, I'd look into adding those features instead of upgrading to the Hurricane - it hasn't been proven yet as a reliable power plant IMO, and it worries me that it doesn't have an engine oil dipstick. Now, if they've done their homework and built it right, it'll be a reliable engine - I6's usually are (look at the old Ford I6, or the old Jeep I6, two that were virtually indestructible). But if they cut corners it could be a disaster waiting to happen. We really won't know until they've been out there for a couple years.

A prime example is the current PSD, the 6.7. There was concern about it since Navistar's last couple weren't very reliable in the trucks, and it was the first diesel Ford had designed in a long time. As it turns out, its biggest concern is the CP4, that seems to get a lot of noise about it on forums, but since it is still in production must not be as bad as the noise would make it seem. A corporation like Ford would be making changes or putting out a new engine if it had major issues.

I agreed with your comments all the way up to the Ford diesel engine reference. Ford also has issues with the EcoBoost, but they still keep shoving it down customers throat’s.

Was a previous 2016 EcoBoost owner that got fed up. Moved to a Bighorn with E-Torque. I’m very happy with it. Also, pull an rv with it with no issues.

To answer your question, E-Torque vs. Hurricane… well, I’m partially biased to turbos at this point. Very glad I made the move back to a normally aspirated V-8 so far.

Either way, good luck with your decision.

 

[OldManEdge]

I've got the 25 RAM Laramie Crew Cab 4 x 4 - 3.3.0L I6 Hurricane Twin Turbo SST - Rear axle ratio = 3.92. It came with the trailer brake controller built in. I have had a few RAMS with the V8 in my lifetime. I can say that this new one has a bit more power when towing my 7,000lb trailer. I don't go bat$hit crazy with it. It gets about the same MPG as the other RAMS.

 

[Guy lIPSKY]

My dealer is tempting me with some low prices on the new ‘25s. Currently have the’21 Bighorn with the e-torque Hemi, bought a small camper last year and would really like a towing package (mirrors, brake controller).

Probably been asked before, but wondered if there were any issues moving from the Hemi to the Hurricane 6. Looks like the EPA estimates are similar on MPG.

Thanks

I just drove the new one this morning, same thing with me I have 21 big horn with 25k miles offered me $38 k , that 6 definitely has a lot of power but I don't want payments

 

[ramffml]

Hemi will outlive the HO? Ah, yes the fear over turbos. I just did a story on a 200k mile Tundra with a turbocharged engine. I'm currently working on a story with a dozen Ford F-150 EcoBoost trucks with over 200k miles on them ranging in age from 2013 to today. They are for sale on Carfax and looking over the free reports, I'm not finding "turbos replaced" anywhere.

Specific points are anecdotes, not data. I find it funny that you chose the turbo tundra and are "proud" of the little 200k it absolutely should reach without issues, when you're the guy who has ran two stories of million mile v8 tundras. A years salary says those turbos don't hit 1 million miles (just as an example), and the rest of the engine won't last that long either.

Consider what Ford said, on the record, with a TFL interview (paraphrasing): "we developed the 7.3 for our super dutys because the turbo engine ecoboosts would not handle the duty cycle".

Think about that. The 3.5 EB at 500 lb/ft is competitive with the 7.3, yet Ford, the queen of tiny turbos, knows they will not handle the duty cycle of a heavy duty truck.

On the other hand, we have the 5.7 hemi being used in the heavy duty 2500 for like a decade+.

All the heavy duty engines are cast iron block, naturally aspirated, high displacement, push rod v8s. They vary a little on other details, but there is a reason they are all built that way.

For durability, are you suggesting because he had a target to meet global emissions, he didn't give any consideration to life of the engine? Please tell me you are not.

There is no suggestion here, what I said was that engineers don't have the final say on whatever you get in terms of the final engine. I have not spoken to the man, but I would bet a years salary that if he was being honest and transparent he would have preferred to build a new, modern v8, instead of this small high strung turbo stuff.

The point is: he's told to design an engine around certain constraints, and those constraints don't mean they're building the best most reliable engine out there. These things are terribly complex and guaranteed are going to make it even harder for the back yard mechanic to work on vs the hemi.

And when it comes to emissions, you realize the hurricane with direct injection produces more of it than the hemi with port injection? That's a little bit of fine print for you that they never mention.

The HEMI is behind on HP and MPG with the competition moving to more efficient engines. GM's lineup, like you pointed out, is currently being worked on for new replacements. They realize the engines are becoming outdated.

That's not what I said either, please actually understand the points I'm making. We all pretty much agree that the 5.7 can use a replacement. However, it IS still competitive with the other v8's in the space (so it would still sell in high numbers), and secondly, there ARE still other v8's that are getting updated or replaced. The issue isn't that the hemi is getting replaced, the issue is that the hemi is not being replaced with a new modern v8. GM will be releasing new v8s. The ford v8 was just updated and we have no reason to think it won't continue to be updated either.

Final point with the "outdated". You got that terribly wrong as even Ram realizes (always did) that they need the hemi and are bringing it back for some time.

 

[turkeybird56]

I just drove the new one this morning, same thing with me I have 21 big horn with 25k miles offered me $38 k , that 6 definitely has a lot of power but I don't want payments

YUP, 2019 here, 25K on odometer, paid off, pink slip in hand, way better than monster payments. Local clown dealership keeps sending me emails: WE have the perfect 2025 Laramie for U, just, 72K, we may take off 6K. SO I go and upgrade, for lil silly overworked 3.0L and have a payment on a 40 K loan (hoping they give me 30K for my 2019), be over $780 a month on a 5 year loan, that be $46,800 total, tooooo funny. BUT what do I know, I's a turkey. Edmunds only shows $27,500 for my 2019 so that ups the loan another 3K amount, yup the ole trusty driveway princess stays in the driveway.

 

[nlambert182]

Aluminum blocks are far weaker than iron blocks for handling boost. Can they do it? Sure.... the EcoBoosts do it.

The problem is that if the tune is even slightly wrong, it can cause big problems. So... early adopters have to take that risk that Stellantis got the tune right on the first round (or that they'll replace your engine in warranty if something goes wrong). It's like trying to fit 10 lbs into a 5lb paper sack. It's asking a whole lot of the sack. Time will tell if it can hold up.

 

[turkeybird56]

Hell No! You never buy a first year release. Ha.

Early adopters always suffer the growing pains for others. Without them, products will never improve.

Hmmmm, but U said for PPL not to tell PPL to not buy, U not wanna be Guinea pig? I don't blame you, but maybe U should buy one (hee hee)(since U seem to imply ppl should), I won't. BUT I did buy a 1st year 5th Gen, early build, cause the ED had to go, and I did have to jump through a few hoops initially with the (3) recalls, but the Hemi powerplant way more reliable IMHO than the I6. My son, leases a 25 Bighorn, and I already briefed him on wat to keep eyeballs on: 1st: run better fuel than 87, 2nd: keep eyes on electric issues, 3rd: keep eye on silly stupid plastic thermostat housing, 4th: Keep eye on that secondary electric pump cooling system for the turbos. I believe the (2) weak points are gonna prove out to be the thermostat housing and also for sure the secondary cooling system ref turbo's. Probably be OK in a GG situation, but go out there and work it hard, I dunno, best duck and cross fingers. But time will tell.

ADDED: Maybe DORMAN will come out and make a "metallic" replacement for the thermostat housings like they did for the Pentastar Oil Filter/housing setups.

 

[Lsujker]

Hmmmm, but U said for PPL not to tell PPL to not buy, U not wanna be Guinea pig? I don't blame you, but maybe U should buy one (hee hee)(since U seem to imply ppl should), I won't. BUT I did buy a 1st year 5th Gen, early build, cause the ED had to go, and I did have to jump through a few hoops initially with the (3) recalls, but the Hemi powerplant way more reliable IMHO than the I6. My son, leases a 25 Bighorn, and I already briefed him on wat to keep eyeballs on: 1st: run better fuel than 87, 2nd: keep eyes on electric issues, 3rd: keep eye on silly stupid plastic thermostat housing, 4th: Keep eye on that secondary electric pump cooling system for the turbos. I believe the (2) weak points are gonna prove out to be the thermostat housing and also for sure the secondary cooling system ref turbo's. Probably be OK in a GG situation, but go out there and work it hard, I dunno, best duck and cross fingers. But time will tell.

ADDED: Maybe DORMAN will come out and make a "metallic" replacement for the thermostat housings like they did for the Pentastar Oil Filter/housing setups.

Do what I say, not as I do. Just giving an opinion on an internet forum about a product I have no experience with.

Not apposed to the I6 in this case having been out for a few years. If I HAD to buy a NEW vehicle due to whatever, this would be on my short list. Not trading in a perfectly good few year old truck for the chance.

 

[turkeybird56]

Do what I say, not as I do. Just giving an opinion on an internet forum about a product I have no experience with.

Not apposed to the I6 in this case having been out for a few years. If I HAD to buy a NEW vehicle due to whatever, this would be on my short list. Not trading in a perfectly good few year old truck for the chance.

WHY keeping MY 19. GM's blowing up, Ford/GM tranny issues, guess my HP 75 and Hemi do well

 

[Dusty]

I've got the 25 RAM Laramie Crew Cab 4 x 4 - 3.3.0L I6 Hurricane Twin Turbo SST - Rear axle ratio = 3.92. It came with the trailer brake controller built in. I have had a few RAMS with the V8 in my lifetime. I can say that this new one has a bit more power when towing my 7,000lb trailer. I don't go bat$hit crazy with it. It gets about the same MPG as the other RAMS.

I now know someone with the new SO Hurricane and they seem to be getting about the same mileage they did on their last 2019 1500 with the 5.7. Maybe even a tad more (right now this is not a good time to be looking at gas mileage in Western New York state). That's comparing a fresh motor to one that had 90K+ on it. And no problems either!

There's an aspect to this discussion that's missing: with better EPA fuel consumption, the Hurricane motor is rated 4 on the Fuel Economy & Greenhouse Gas Rating, one point higher than the 5.7. The Hurricane also gets a higher smog rating of 6, one point higher than the 5.7.

This may not be important to anyone here, but this will translate to reducing the purchase of fuel economy credits from other companies and lower corporate cost of doing business, perhaps significantly.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 126666 miles.