5th Gen Tail Lights in 4th Gen?

[sawz]

I saw a post on a Facebook group where someone put the 5th GEN LED tail lights on a 4th GEN truck. They physically fit but there were comments that the wiring was painful. Anyone have any insight into how to build the harness to accomplish this?

 

[Elevated 2013]

I’d be interested in finding this out as well. I’d also be interested in finding out if 5th gen OEM Projector headlights work on 4th gen trucks with OEM projector headlights as my headlight lenses look like they went through a sand storm.


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[kad]

I’d be interested in finding this out as well. I’d also be interested in finding out if 5th gen OEM Projector headlights work on 4th gen trucks with OEM projector headlights as my headlight lenses look like they went through a sand storm.


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Not sure if these are both projector style (4th Gen projector style are listed as "Composite") but here's the part numbers for two sets of 5th Gen headlights if someone with lots of disposable cash wants to try.

68316088AG Composite Headlamp - 1500; W/ LED HEADLAMPS; W/ O ADAPTIVE HEADLAMPS; BLACK HEADLAMPS; RIGHT - $539.84
68316089AG Composite Headlamp - 1500; W/ LED HEADLAMPS; W/ O ADAPTIVE HEADLAMPS; BLACK HEADLAMPS; LEFT - $539.84

68316087AE Composite Headlamp - 1500; W/ O LED HEADLAMPS; BLACK HEADLAMPS; LEFT - $235.75
68316086AE Composite Headlamp - 1500; W/ O LED HEADLAMPS; BLACK HEADLAMPS; RIGHT - $235.75

Taken from here: https://parts.allmoparparts.com/aut...ngine/electrical-cat/headlamp-components-scat

-K

 

[stimpy433]

I asked about this awhile ago and Jeremy from Retroshop said they aren't interchangeable.... they are physically different.

 

[kad]

I’d be interested in finding this out as well. I’d also be interested in finding out if 5th gen OEM Projector headlights work on 4th gen trucks with OEM projector headlights as my headlight lenses look like they went through a sand storm.

If you just want the 2019 look, you could try these https://www.ramforum.com/posts/1962203/

-K

 

[Arth]

I asked about this awhile ago and Jeremy from Retroshop said they aren't interchangeable.... they are physically different.

The 5th Gen 1500 tails don't fit but the 5th Gen 2500 tails do fit. Retroshop is currently working on a harness for the swap.

 

[Jimmy07]

I saw a post on a Facebook group where someone put the 5th GEN LED tail lights on a 4th GEN truck. They physically fit but there were comments that the wiring was painful. Anyone have any insight into how to build the harness to accomplish this?

I know how I would do it. The connector parts and terminals are easy and cheap (about $40). The only way I can think of to get the parking lights and turn signals on the 2019 2500/3500 tails to function the way they’re supposed to is to run those two wires up each side of the chassis to each headlight harness and grab their turn signal and parking circuits with a conversion/pass through harness. So, basically, for each side, you would have a conversion harness for the tail light and a pass through harness for the headlight that are tied together with the turn and parking light circuit wires. This would also avoid cutting, tapping/splicing any factory wiring.
I can post a diagram if you’re really wanting to do it.

 

[Roman217]

I know how I would do it. The connector parts and terminals are easy and cheap (about $40). The only way I can think of to get the parking lights and turn signals on the 2019 2500/3500 tails to function the way they’re supposed to is to run those two wires up each side of the chassis to each headlight harness and grab their turn signal and parking circuits with a conversion/pass through harness. So, basically, for each side, you would have a conversion harness for the tail light and a pass through harness for the headlight that are tied together with the turn and parking light circuit wires. This would also avoid cutting, tapping/splicing any factory wiring.
I can post a diagram if you’re really wanting to do it.

I believe the BCM has output pins for the rear turn signals as well. So a possible option would be to turn off the combined tail light setting and run the wiring back from the BCM. I'm betting this is how the export trucks with amber turn signals are set up.

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[Jimmy07]

I believe the BCM has output pins for the rear turn signals as well. So a possible option would be to turn off the combined tail light setting and run the wiring back from the BCM. I'm betting this is how the export trucks with amber turn signals are set up.

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Yes, there are dedicated rear turn signal circuits on the 4th gen BCMs. You could definitely disable the combined rear lighting, and enable the rear dedicated turn signals. I was trying to think more like how retroshop would do it, because they have to make it 100% plug n play without relying on the customer to get programming done to the BCM to finish the install.

 

[Roman217]

Yes, there are dedicated rear turn signal circuits on the 4th gen BCMs. You could definitely disable the combined rear lighting, and enable the rear dedicated turn signals. I was trying to think more like how retroshop would do it, because they have to make it 100% plug n play without relying on the customer to get programming done to the BCM to finish the install.

Just checked, the pins that are needed are there. Would be great if they could offer both options.

 

[kad]

Yes, there are dedicated rear turn signal circuits on the 4th gen BCMs. You could definitely disable the combined rear lighting, and enable the rear dedicated turn signals. I was trying to think more like how retroshop would do it, because they have to make it 100% plug n play without relying on the customer to get programming done to the BCM to finish the install.

CURT sells two types of small "black boxes" for trailers that convert 2 wire to 3 wire systems or visa-versa. They might work something like that into the harness.

-K

 

[Roman217]

I have a feeling that it would be better for me to not throw in 5th gen lights into my truck. I don't know about you guys, but I would have a hard time not running the CAN IHS and power lines to the blind stop sensors to see if I can make those work and that would inevitably lead to buying mirrors with blind spot lights, etc.

Looking forward to what progress is made here. My other thought is that a switchback circuit will be required for the for the stop/turn signals. I am guessing the Gen 5 BCM drops out the brake light when the turn signals are on. So just adapting the harness and finding a spot to pull the turn signals would most likely result in turn and brake lights being on at the same time unless the lights themselves have the switchback/drop out circuit built in, which I would be very surprised if they did.

 

[sawz]

This looks like a potential DIY solution. Although, with the price of the tail lights I don't think I'll find out!

https://www.curtmfg.com/part/56196

 

[Jimmy07]

Although, with the price of the tail lights I don't think I'll find out!

https://www.curtmfg.com/part/56196

Need some guys to start wrecking their 2500/3500s so they can start showing up on car-part.

 

[superjoe83]

I have some 2019 HD LED tail lights coming and it looks like with alfaobd it will be a pretty easy swap, the hardest part of the wiring will be hooking up to the BCM for the right and left turn wires since mopar doesn't have replacement terminals/pins for the BCM connector, but I think I can use some small 1/8" spade connectors and make it work. I have been experimenting with the BCM settings and can make it just like the 2019's and drop out the brake light on the side that has the turn signal on, otherwise the amber turn would get washed out by the brake light. If I can get everything to work I will make a separate thread detailing what I had to do and how to do it

 

[Jimmy07]

I have some 2019 HD LED tail lights coming and it looks like with alfaobd it will be a pretty easy swap, the hardest part of the wiring will be hooking up to the BCM for the right and left turn wires since mopar doesn't have replacement terminals/pins for the BCM connector, but I think I can use some small 1/8" spade connectors and make it work. I have been experimenting with the BCM settings and can make it just like the 2019's and drop out the brake light on the side that has the turn signal on, otherwise the amber turn would get washed out by the brake light. If I can get everything to work I will make a separate thread detailing what I had to do and how to do it

These terminals will work on the C5/E and C6/F BCM connectors for the rear turn signal drivers- https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetai...=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKsvrPGN8QRd7fLfzUUDQTlM=

I bought a right rear from the junkyard a while ago to mess around with. Enabling the rear turn signal drivers and disabling combined rear lighting gets it working like it’s supposed to, but I got a right turn signal out message with hyperflash, even with rear turns set to LED. The front and rear right turn signals flash normally, but the dash and right mirror signal hyperflash. If I wire in halogen 3157 bulbs and bulb sockets to the rear turn signal circuits, I get no errors. The brake lights drop out for the turn signals, so I believe that’s a normal function when they are enabled with combined rear lighting disabled. I haven’t messed with it too much since I’m waiting for a left tail to pop up somewhere, and I think I found the Aptiv connectors for the tails lights, rather that buy the mopar repair kits. Just need to order them to make sure they are the correct ones.

 

[superjoe83]

These terminals will work on the C5/E and C6/F BCM connectors for the rear turn signal drivers- https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kostal/22140492060050-L?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs7eK6h2EBtKsvrPGN8QRd7fLfzUUDQTlM=

I bought a right rear from the junkyard a while ago to mess around with. Enabling the rear turn signal drivers and disabling combined rear lighting gets it working like it’s supposed to, but I got a right turn signal out message with hyperflash, even with rear turns set to LED. The front and rear right turn signals flash normally, but the dash and right mirror signal hyperflash. If I wire in halogen 3157 bulbs and bulb sockets to the rear turn signal circuits, I get no errors. The brake lights drop out for the turn signals, so I believe that’s a normal function when they are enabled with combined rear lighting disabled. I haven’t messed with it too much since I’m waiting for a left tail to pop up somewhere, and I think I found the Aptiv connectors for the tails lights, rather that buy the mopar repair kits. Just need to order them to make sure they are the correct ones.

On my 2018, when disabling the combined lights, both brake lights stayed on when either turn signal was activated, I found that enabling "single filament tail lamp" in the BCM settings made the brake light drop out on the side that had the turn signal on. Im sure there are going to be differences in different year BCM's, but I hope to get this working. There is also a wire that is located under the PDC that you can ground that will disable rear lighting DTC's if the BCM doesn't like the '19 tail lights.

 

[Roman217]

The turn signal circuit in the gen 5 tails probably has a resistance that is much lower than the BCM is expecting even when set to "LED" so that is triggering the light out DTC and this will vary between years as some are more sensitive than others. Does the gen 5 taillight still flash when the DTC is active or is the BCM disabling the output completely on error? One solution may be to wire a resistor in parallel with the light and that should get rid of the DTCs.

There may be a way to disable DTCs for rear lights altogether somewhere in the BCM. I thought I saw mentions of it in one of the up-fitter guides.

On another note, I would be really temped to wire in the CAN-IHS lines and see if the blind spot monitoring could be enabled. Looking at the BCM and comparing it to Jeep GC (almost identical BCM and options) I think these are the settings that need to be turned on.

Vehicle Config Customer Settings Menu 1:
-Blind spot alert customer settings menu: Not set

Doors Configuration:
-Blindspot Mirror Present: Not set (not needed as the chime should still work, but theres a chance the new HD mirrors would fit)

Programmed ECUs: Cabin Network:
-RBSS Right Blind-Spot Sensor: Not set
-LBSS Left Blind-Spot Sensor : Not set

@Mpgrimm2 and @DeereGuy, thoughts on making adapter harnesses for these lights?

 

[Jimmy07]

On my 2018, when disabling the combined lights, both brake lights stayed on when either turn signal was activated, I found that enabling "single filament tail lamp" in the BCM settings made the brake light drop out on the side that had the turn signal on. Im sure there are going to be differences in different year BCM's, but I hope to get this working. There is also a wire that is located under the PDC that you can ground that will disable rear lighting DTC's if the BCM doesn't like the '19 tail lights.

Yes, that wire under the PDC to ground is the same as disabling rear lighting DTC. That means no warning on any rear facing lights even if one is out.

 

[Jimmy07]

The turn signal circuit in the gen 5 tails probably has a resistance that is much lower than the BCM is expecting even when set to "LED" so that is triggering the light out DTC and this will vary between years some are more sensitive than others. Does the gen 5 taillight still flash when the DTC is active or is the BCM disabling the output completely on error? One solution may be to wire a resistor in parallel with the light and that should get rid of the DTCs.

The turn signal on the new tail light actually flashes normal along with the front turn signal. It’s only the tow mirror signal and the dash that hyperflashes. Resistors will be my absolute last resort.