5th wheel hitch install RamBox

[13bighorn1500]

I upgraded to a 2018 RamBox sport club cab 5.7 bed 5.7 hemi 8 speed. I replaced coil springs and installed timber grove air bags.
Outlaw FlowMaster 3” SS full exhaust ad C&B cold air intake. New 12 ply tires
I currently tow a 23ft Hideout @ 7590 lbs and traded it in for a 24ft 5th wheel Cougar 7393 lbs bed hitch weight 1,490 lbs
I am set up with correct hitch and side winder with wedge so when turning it will turn at Turrent preventing hitting cab. Ty have 22” extra VS slider hitch 10”

Question is:
Has anyone installed a 5th wheel hitch in a Ram Box 5.7 bed?
Are there pre drilled holes in bed frame for brackets?
Camper dealer quoted $1200.00 as 4.5 hrs to install. I have found another place that should be cheaper.
Thanks for any reply’s or suggestions

 

[mtofell]

Unlikely to have any pre-drilled holes, etc. as 5.7' beds are really not meant to be paired with 5th wheels.... could be an uphill battle.

Brought to you by the department of questions you didn't ask: What's the payload rating of your truck? 1490# is likely a dry weight and will be at least a couple hundred pounds more once loaded. Add in the 5th hitch and people/things in the truck and I hope you have at least 2,000# payload.

 

[Tulecreeper]

Unlikely to have any pre-drilled holes, etc. as 5.7' beds are really not meant to be paired with 5th wheels.... could be an uphill battle.

Brought to you by the department of questions you didn't ask: What's the payload rating of your truck? 1490# is likely a dry weight and will be at least a couple hundred pounds more once loaded. Add in the 5th hitch and people/things in the truck and I hope you have at least 2,000# payload.

As an average, a 5th-wheel pin weight will run right about 20%+ of its loaded GVWR. So, if the 5er has a dry weight of 7400#, and a GVWR of 9400#, the pin weight will be between 1800 and 2000 pounds. Not going to get that with a 1500.

 

[mtofell]

Not going to get that with a 1500.

Oh yeah.... I know. I hate being the guy that brings up (important) things not asked..... was trying to be gentle

 

[2003F350]

So I've got a neighbor that doesn't listen to anyone because 'I've pulled my fifth wheel with my old half ton for years!' Which is true, he did, with a '93 GMC 1500 half ton long box extended cab. Not really the truck I'd use for his 35' fifth wheel but he got it 10 miles up the road to the campground they have a membership at...at 35 mph.

He wanted a newer truck, so he bought a '99 Ford F150 that needed a LOT of work, then never got around to it. It MAY have done it, I don't know.

He started poking around at my FIL's F250 with a 7.3, asking questions, asking if he wanted to sell it (answer was yes but not right now)...the old guy couldn't wait so he went down to the GM dealer and got a GMC 1500 with the baby Duramax and the short little 5.5' bed.

It took him WEEKS to find someone who would even consider putting a fifth wheel hitch in the truck for him. They did make him sign a waiver (he showed it to us) stating that they advised him not to pull a fifth wheel with this truck, and that any damaged caused to him, his truck, his trailer, or other people/property was not their fault and they were not liable. Not sure how enforceable that is but it exists.

Anyway he got the hitch installed, tried to hook up to his trailer, and discovered he couldn't make any turns, even with a slider slid all the way back. His truck has the air suspension but it struggled to try to lift it back to level. I don't think he bothered with a Sidewinder, I think he just gave up because the truck struggled to even pull their fifth wheel out of the yard and onto their driveway. He managed it once, then put it back and (I drive by his house daily) it's never moved since.

TL: DR, as mentioned above the short short boxes on half tons, the 5'X" boxes, are NOT designed to pull a fifth wheel period. You're going to want the longer 6'6 or whatever box at least (or you'll need a Sidewinder but you'll still be CLOSE in the corners), and the fifth wheels a half ton truck can pull WELL are few. Again, this is coming from the perspective of you REALLY should try to stay inside your GAWRs and hopefully inside your payload, but if you're comfortable going way outside these numbers it opens you up a lot. It depends on how much risk you want to take on.

 

[Tulecreeper]

So I've got a neighbor that doesn't listen to anyone because 'I've pulled my fifth wheel with my old half ton for years!' Which is true, he did, with a '93 GMC 1500 half ton long box extended cab. Not really the truck I'd use for his 35' fifth wheel but he got it 10 miles up the road to the campground they have a membership at...at 35 mph.

He wanted a newer truck, so he bought a '99 Ford F150 that needed a LOT of work, then never got around to it. It MAY have done it, I don't know.

He started poking around at my FIL's F250 with a 7.3, asking questions, asking if he wanted to sell it (answer was yes but not right now)...the old guy couldn't wait so he went down to the GM dealer and got a GMC 1500 with the baby Duramax and the short little 5.5' bed.

It took him WEEKS to find someone who would even consider putting a fifth wheel hitch in the truck for him. They did make him sign a waiver (he showed it to us) stating that they advised him not to pull a fifth wheel with this truck, and that any damaged caused to him, his truck, his trailer, or other people/property was not their fault and they were not liable. Not sure how enforceable that is but it exists.

As long as what the installer does is not prohibited by law, there is nothing to enforce and the onus falls completely on the customer.

Anyway he got the hitch installed, tried to hook up to his trailer, and discovered he couldn't make any turns, even with a slider slid all the way back. His truck has the air suspension but it struggled to try to lift it back to level. I don't think he bothered with a Sidewinder, I think he just gave up because the truck struggled to even pull their fifth wheel out of the yard and onto their driveway. He managed it once, then put it back and (I drive by his house daily) it's never moved since.

TL: DR, as mentioned above the short short boxes on half tons, the 5'X" boxes, are NOT designed to pull a fifth wheel period. You're going to want the longer 6'6 or whatever box at least (or you'll need a Sidewinder but you'll still be CLOSE in the corners), and the fifth wheels a half ton truck can pull WELL are few. Again, this is coming from the perspective of you REALLY should try to stay inside your GAWRs and hopefully inside your payload, but if you're comfortable going way outside these numbers it opens you up a lot. It depends on how much risk you want to take on.

The #1 most important number to start with is your truck's GCWR, the total your truck and trailer can weigh combined. From that you can subtract your truck's GVWR and what is left is your max tow capacity. And a person should always look at that number as an absolute max and stay 20% below that as a safety margin.

 

[2003F350]

The #1 most important number to start with is your truck's GCWR, the total your truck and trailer can weight combined. From that you can subtract your trucks GVWR and what is left is your max tow capacity. And a person should always look at that number as an absolute max and stay 20% below that as a safety margin.

A person SHOULD but many DON'T. Plain and simple.

But again, it's a risk that people need to determine if they're willing to take on or not, going outside ANY of the numbers. For most people, they'll never be in an accident where it would come up, but the possibility is there that you COULD (not necessarily WILL) be held liable because you were over payload/GAWR/GCWR. Most of us use our vehicles for private use, and as such the vast majority of the time things like that will be ignored...but it doesn't mean it always will be. Remember, insurance companies LOVE to find ways to get out of paying, and people in general are sue-happy.

And that's where the risk comes in. Does it worry you? Most people will say no, and that's their choice. I'm not going to tell a person they should do one or the other, I just want them to have all the information in front of them so they can make their choice with as few 'hidden' variables as possible.

It sounds like OP has already done what leg work he's going to do, and the camper dealer has sold them on pulling their fifth wheel with this truck. So our discussion here has essentially become moot anyway.

 

[turkeybird56]

A person SHOULD but many DON'T. Plain and simple.

But again, it's a risk that people need to determine if they're willing to take on or not, going outside ANY of the numbers. For most people, they'll never be in an accident where it would come up, but the possibility is there that you COULD (not necessarily WILL) be held liable because you were over payload/GAWR/GCWR. Most of us use our vehicles for private use, and as such the vast majority of the time things like that will be ignored...but it doesn't mean it always will be. Remember, insurance companies LOVE to find ways to get out of paying, and people in general are sue-happy.

And that's where the risk comes in. Does it worry you? Most people will say no, and that's their choice. I'm not going to tell a person they should do one or the other, I just want them to have all the information in front of them so they can make their choice with as few 'hidden' variables as possible.

It sounds like OP has already done what leg work he's going to do, and the camper dealer has sold them on pulling their fifth wheel with this truck. So our discussion here has essentially become moot anyway.

WHY would U setup and pull a 5th Wheel with a 1500 truck, OMG, well as Ron White would say: "You can't fix stupid". All IMHO only.

OP trade up to at least a 2500 or keep your current and buy another vehicle just for towing that rig. And depending upon the size/weight of the 5th Wheel, U may wanna consider a 3500. Again IMHO only.

 

[Tulecreeper]

WHY would U setup and pull a 5th Wheel with a 1500 truck, OMG, well as Ron White would say: "You can't fix stupid".

I can, but it's gonna hurt.

 

[turkeybird56]

I can, but it's gonna hurt.

Yessum, Chief....

 

[13bighorn1500]

Unlikely to have any pre-drilled holes, etc. as 5.7' beds are really not meant to be paired with 5th wheels.... could be an uphill battle.

Brought to you by the department of questions you didn't ask: What's the payload rating of your truck? 1490# is likely a dry weight and will be at least a couple hundred pounds more once loaded. Add in the 5th hitch and people/things in the truck and I hope you have at least 2,000# payload.

I called dealer and he looked up my vin and said it is pushing it a little over limit and eventually it will wear out the transmission. Also the liability of winds and having an accident.
What are thoughts on 209 -6.7 Diesel?

 

[13bighorn1500]

I called dealer and he looked up my vin and said it is pushing it a little over limit and eventually it will wear out the transmission. Also the liability of winds and having an accident.
What are thoughts on 209 -6.7 Diesel?

Or how about the gas 6.4?

 

[mtofell]

I called dealer and he looked up my vin and said it is pushing it a little over limit and eventually it will wear out the transmission. Also the liability of winds and having an accident.
What are thoughts on 209 -6.7 Diesel?

If (and that's a big IF) you are going to stick with that trailer the 6.4 Hemi would be a nice fit. You have to be careful though because the whole game of getting a bigger truck then realizing you can get a bigger RV is expensive

If you end up with the 6.4 really try to get one with the 8spd rather than the 6. I believe that changed around 2018/19ish. It's funny the dealer picked the tranny as a weak link when you well may be within your towing (pulling) number. What we're all talking about here is payload (carrying). Keeping an eye on both numbers is important and the fine (NOT) folks that sell trucks and trailers like to just focus on one.

Payload is what tends to run out first and most often. My 2014 6.4 has payload right at 3000# and I'm right at or a little over that with my 9000# dry 5th wheel. Hitches, kids and gear in the truck really add up fast.

If you really want to make a message board explode go ask if it's okay to exceed payload but stay under axle weights? On my truck the payload is based off of the 10,000# GVWR but my axles total up to 12K (5500 front, 6500 rear). So, I'm personally okay going right up to and maybe a couple pieces of firewood over my payload. My front axle stays pretty static at around 4400#. My rear has been as heavy as 5900# when fully loaded with water, firewood, etc. for a long off-grid trip. Tires (which many consider to be the most important component) are 3600/ea so 7200#. All that makes me feel okay about my setup. Most times my rear runs around 5400#.

Lastly, watch payload ratings of the diesels. In a backwards, mixed up world the additional 700# of the diesel actually reduced the payload. That engine can out PULL my Hemi 8 days a week but my Hemi has a higher CARRYING capacity since my engine is lighter. Some of the 2500 diesels can have really low payload.... like down near 2000#. Stepping up to the 3500 solves that but then you get the bumpy leaf springs in lieu of the 2500 coils which I find far superior for daily driving.

 

[Riccochet]

A 2500 with the 6.4 makes more sense if you want to pull a 5th wheel. The diesel option chews up almost 1000 lbs of payload over the 6.4. You'd have no problem pulling a 9-10k 5th wheel with a 6.4 2500 that has 3000# of payload. I would get some air bags, not so much to level the load but to reduce the bouncing.

 

[JayLeonard]

If (and that's a big IF) you are going to stick with that trailer the 6.4 Hemi would be a nice fit. You have to be careful though because the whole game of getting a bigger truck then realizing you can get a bigger RV is expensive

If you end up with the 6.4 really try to get one with the 8spd rather than the 6. I believe that changed around 2018/19ish. It's funny the dealer picked the tranny as a weak link when you well may be within your towing (pulling) number. What we're all talking about here is payload (carrying). Keeping an eye on both numbers is important and the fine (NOT) folks that sell trucks and trailers like to just focus on one.

Payload is what tends to run out first and most often. My 2014 6.4 has payload right at 3000# and I'm right at or a little over that with my 9000# dry 5th wheel. Hitches, kids and gear in the truck really add up fast.

If you really want to make a message board explode go ask if it's okay to exceed payload but stay under axle weights? On my truck the payload is based off of the 10,000# GVWR but my axles total up to 12K (5500 front, 6500 rear). So, I'm personally okay going right up to and maybe a couple pieces of firewood over my payload. My front axle stays pretty static at around 4400#. My rear has been as heavy as 5900# when fully loaded with water, firewood, etc. for a long off-grid trip. Tires (which many consider to be the most important component) are 3600/ea so 7200#. All that makes me feel okay about my setup. Most times my rear runs around 5400#.

Lastly, watch payload ratings of the diesels. In a backwards, mixed up world the additional 700# of the diesel actually reduced the payload. That engine can out PULL my Hemi 8 days a week but my Hemi has a higher CARRYING capacity since my engine is lighter. Some of the 2500 diesels can have really low payload.... like down near 2000#. Stepping up to the 3500 solves that but then you get the bumpy leaf springs in lieu of the 2500 coils which I find far superior for daily driving.

The payload issue is teal. My 21 2500 bighorn diesel has a 2300 lb payload capacity. I would never consider towing a 5th wheel. Bu

 

[JayLeonard]

If (and that's a big IF) you are going to stick with that trailer the 6.4 Hemi would be a nice fit. You have to be careful though because the whole game of getting a bigger truck then realizing you can get a bigger RV is expensive

If you end up with the 6.4 really try to get one with the 8spd rather than the 6. I believe that changed around 2018/19ish. It's funny the dealer picked the tranny as a weak link when you well may be within your towing (pulling) number. What we're all talking about here is payload (carrying). Keeping an eye on both numbers is important and the fine (NOT) folks that sell trucks and trailers like to just focus on one.

Payload is what tends to run out first and most often. My 2014 6.4 has payload right at 3000# and I'm right at or a little over that with my 9000# dry 5th wheel. Hitches, kids and gear in the truck really add up fast.

If you really want to make a message board explode go ask if it's okay to exceed payload but stay under axle weights? On my truck the payload is based off of the 10,000# GVWR but my axles total up to 12K (5500 front, 6500 rear). So, I'm personally okay going right up to and maybe a couple pieces of firewood over my payload. My front axle stays pretty static at around 4400#. My rear has been as heavy as 5900# when fully loaded with water, firewood, etc. for a long off-grid trip. Tires (which many consider to be the most important component) are 3600/ea so 7200#. All that makes me feel okay about my setup. Most times my rear runs around 5400#.

Lastly, watch payload ratings of the diesels. In a backwards, mixed up world the additional 700# of the diesel actually reduced the payload. That engine can out PULL my Hemi 8 days a week but my Hemi has a higher CARRYING capacity since my engine is lighter. Some of the 2500 diesels can have really low payload.... like down near 2000#. Stepping up to the 3500 solves that but then you get the bumpy leaf springs in lieu of the 2500 coils which I find far superior for daily driving.

The payload issue is real. My 21 2500 bighorn diesel has a 2300 lb payload capacity. I would never consider towing a 5th wheel. But it tows my 30 ft TT just fine.

 

[nlambert182]

The payload issue is real. My 21 2500 bighorn diesel has a 2300 lb payload capacity. I would never consider towing a 5th wheel. But it tows my 30 ft TT just fine.

Wow that's a nice payload! My 18 Laramie megacab has a whopping 1648 lbs because of the Cummins. Pulls my 33ft TT just fine though. No way I'd stick a 5th wheel behind it.

 

[2003F350]

Wow that's a nice payload! My 18 Laramie megacab has a whopping 1648 lbs because of the Cummins. Pulls my 33ft TT just fine though. No way I'd stick a 5th wheel behind it.

He's in about the same ballpark as I am, I have just under 2400 lbs of payload with my '22 2500 6.7, I'm also a Bighorn. They add a LOT of options to Laramies that really cut down the payload.

I've pulled my FIL's fifth wheel around with it (because it's got the fifth wheel/gooseneck prep), and honestly it squatted less than his F250 with the 'Heavy Haul' package that gives him a 3k payload with the PSD. I didn't feel loose or unstable at all, even going over a bridge that routinely has high winds (they were about 15-20 mph that day). Of course I have the camper/plow/Snow Chief packages on my Night edition so that may have helped. Didn't weigh it but based on the information I have on hand I was very likely over payload but way under my RAWR.

Regardless, for OP, it sounds like he's in 6.4 2500 territory - it'll pull that all day long. He'll have to wind it out on hills because that's where it makes power, but even that's not really a problem.

 

[Riccochet]

Regardless, for OP, it sounds like he's in 6.4 2500 territory - it'll pull that all day long. He'll have to wind it out on hills because that's where it makes power, but even that's not really a problem.

I had my concerns about pulling long grades. But after a trip to TN through the NC mountains where I pulled some steep grades for several miles I no longer have those concerns. Sat at 4000-4500 RPM for miles and the temps rose maybe 1-2 degrees. Trans sat at 170F, oil and coolant at around 210. I was impressed. That engine never broke a sweat, kept me at 55 MPH.

 

[2003F350]

I had my concerns about pulling long grades. But after a trip to TN through the NC mountains where I pulled some steep grades for several miles I no longer have those concerns. Sat at 4000-4500 RPM for miles and the temps rose maybe 1-2 degrees. Trans sat at 170F, oil and coolant at around 210. I was impressed. That engine never broke a sweat, kept me at 55 MPH.

Oh yeah, we've got some good long grades here too, my old 6.4 did just fine with them as long as I let it wind out some.

I think a lot of people are used to old big blocks that redlined at like, 6500, but made all their power and torque before 4k. Heck my dad's last 454-powered truck pulled grades the best at about 3k-3500. Today's gassers are built to REV. They like the higher RPMs.