5th Wheel towing

[OGspinner]

Hey guys. New to the forum here. I have a 2018 2500 with the 6.7 l cummins. Crew cab short bed 4x4. I do a lot of camping...to day only with travel trailer campers. I'm looking to upgrade to a 5th wheel, and I have had some difficulty determining the exact tow capacity if I were to get a 5th wheel camper. A lot of places I am reading the tow capacity increases from the conventional listed trailer tow capacity of 17980. Anyone have any insight on this?

 

[crash68]

The CTD will yank anything you put behind that truck. The biggest limiting factor will be you GAWRs, the GVWR is artificially limited to 10K because it's a 2500.
18K is a bunch of weight behind any truck, that's over double what you truck weighs. You may want to go big but check with where you want to go camping, there is either size limits or they'll be a PIA to squeeze the trailer in.

 

[Travelin Ram]

You can usually find GCVWR in the manual for the various power train and configuration combos.

GVWR and axle ratings on the door pillar sticker. If those terms are unfamiliar then you’ve got some reading to do.

Typically with 2500 series the pin weight of a fiver will limit you before the GCVWR does. Pin weight will average 20 - 25% of trailer weight.

Plenty of operators ignore the GVWR and load up to the RAWR (which is usually the tires).

Get the ratings for your truck and then hit a scale with it full of fuel and passengers, then you’ll know how much pin weight you can handle plus how much trailer will exceed your combination rating.

And don’t forget to include the weight of the hitch itself, some of them are heavy.

Have fun trailer shopping, it’s an addiction. DAMHIK.

 

[Loudram]

Keep an eye on your payload with regards to your pin weight too.

Travelin Ram you beat me to it.

 

[OGspinner]

Thanks crash. Currently I pull a travel trailer that weighs about 7500 (conservative estimate) including cargo, with a golf cart in the bed of the truck and I barley notice I'm pulling anything. What I am specifically looking to upgrade to is a montana high country toy hauler that has a dry weight of 13500. So I would estimate an additional 1k for the golf cart and another 1k of cargo and again to be conservative we could say another 500 misc weight. So about 16k total weight. And for the record that camper is 41 and half ft. My current camper is 31 and half. We usually stick to pull through sites, so they tend to have plenty of room to navigate getting in and out of. Honestly even though I'll be longer, maybe only 5 feet or so longer in total, I think the fact that it's a 5th wheel means it will drive in and out a little easier.

 

[crash68]

@OGspinner you might want to consider a set of airbags for the rear to help stabilize the trailer if needed. My buddy has a 2500 CTD w/8' and pulls a fiver that not quite as long as the one your looking at but slightly heavier, he said the airbags help immensely. Your right about a fiver towing better than a tag along but you'll probably need a slider and watch the cab clearance.

 

[stevenP]

I have done this dance several times. Going to look at RV's is infectious. Thats why I have owned 3 trucks so far. Dont trust the salesman at the dealer to tell you if truck is capable enough. Your 2500 truck must be like mine (3.42's), and the payload is listed as 2380, your going to be pushing that capacity (pin weight) with the camper empty. Also your listed towing spec is 17,160. Regardless of of the pin weight, your almost right at your max listed.

Can you pull it, most likely. Thats a pretty heavy rig unloaded. As my rigs have increased in weight, I also found the IBC of the RAMS is not that great. Your poor rear tires had better be really good ones, cause if they fail..ouch. Your creeping into 3500 dually territory, with that weight rating. Will it drive easier, than a TT heck ya..but thats a lot of rig behind you that tracks outside your trucks turning radius.

 

[392DevilDog]

https://hdrams.com/forum/index.php?threads/worst-nightmare-already.479/

Check out this thread.

Yes, I agree the 2500s are artificially limited to 10k...but even when you add up the axle weights and figure in your truck and trailer weights...you will find there isn't this amazing extra capacity.

Mega Cabs have more axle rating and more capacity, but as you can discover in this link, the capacities mean something.

I have no interest in a 5er yet, and I know plenty of people that tow with 2500, but me, I would at the least have a 3500, but would much prefer the dually.

My opinion. That is a huge trailer, consider how big it really is and make sure you are okay with being at and over capacities

 

[2003F350]

Thanks crash. Currently I pull a travel trailer that weighs about 7500 (conservative estimate) including cargo, with a golf cart in the bed of the truck and I barley notice I'm pulling anything. What I am specifically looking to upgrade to is a montana high country toy hauler that has a dry weight of 13500. So I would estimate an additional 1k for the golf cart and another 1k of cargo and again to be conservative we could say another 500 misc weight. So about 16k total weight. And for the record that camper is 41 and half ft. My current camper is 31 and half. We usually stick to pull through sites, so they tend to have plenty of room to navigate getting in and out of. Honestly even though I'll be longer, maybe only 5 feet or so longer in total, I think the fact that it's a 5th wheel means it will drive in and out a little easier.

Okay, I'll chime in here. You guys can call me nuts all you want, but this is my hill to die on.

I wouldn't do what you're proposing with a 2500. With ANY motor.

If you want to be safe and secure, upgrade to a 3500 dually. More tires on the ground, more pulling capacity, everything.

There's a lot of things you need to consider when going to a fifth wheel toy hauler. First and foremost is that you're going way up in weight. They're also taller. With that straight roof, you just created a MASSIVE sail behind you that's going to catch every crosswind. I'm presuming since you're looking at a 36-38 foot toyhauler, it's going to be a dual axle instead of a triple axle, which won't fight the crosswinds as well.

I used to have a Cyclone toyhauler. 42', triple axle, heavy as hell. I pulled it ONCE with a non-dually Powerstroke F350. Never again. That trailer pushed me around in any kind of crosswind or whenever I came close to another big vehicle on the road.

I went out and bought a dually, and never had another problem.

Edit:

I just re-read and saw you're looking at a 41-42' toyhauler. I DEFINITELY wouldn't do this with a 2500.

 

[TMyers]

I tow a 5th wheel with my 2500. My 5th wheel is only 10,500 dry. My pin weight is 1950. I'm over payload by 700lbs. I'm under rear axle weight by 300lbs.

Pin weight on a toy hauler the size the OP is looking is 3K+. That would be over payload and axle weight on any 2500.

The CAT scale I attached is my rig, fully loaded with the dogs, me and my wife, truck full of fuel. We don't pack anything in the truck, we pack the camper.

 

[michaelrc51]

GVWR of truck = max weight of truck with everything
Payload = weight of people and pin/ tongue weight plus everything in the vehicle
GAWR = max axle weight, basically capacity of that axle by manufacturer
GVWR of trailer = max weight of trailer and all items within trailer
GCWR = max weight of combined truck and trailer

Your GVWR of the truck is the weight of the truck plus the payload. If truck weighs 8100lbs and it's a 2500 then the payload will be 1900lbs as a 2500 is class limited to 10k lbs. Even though your axle GAWR front could be 6k lbs and GAWR rear could be 7k lbs.

 

[geotex1]

Your problem will be payload. The yellow sticker in your driver's door jamb. Take down your VIN# and enter it on the RAM website's towing section. You'll get the combined specific to your build - can't go by the generic numbers.

You do not have enough RAM for the Montana. Also, just so you do not go in with a misconception - the 5th wheel will turn VERY differently than your current tag-along. The pivot over the rear end, and the massive cantilever out the rear past the trailer axles generates a very different geometry. I am speaking from decades of towing experience, and I have 4 trailers in my driveway including a 40-ft 5er.

 

[OGspinner]

What kind of hitch setup are you running with that? I have been looking at anderson style hitches for multiple reasons. Biggest two reasons being it saves a lot of payload weight, and it allows your bed to be a bed with ease when you remove it.

 

[TMyers]

What kind of hitch setup are you running with that? I have been looking at anderson style hitches for multiple reasons. Biggest two reasons being it saves a lot of payload weight, and it allows your bed to be a bed with ease when you remove it.

I assume this question is for me. I am running the B&W Companion Slider. Yes, it's heavy. I have the turnover mount that allows the hitch to be removed and a ball to be installed to tow goosenecks.

 

[2003F350]

I assume this question is for me. I am running the B&W Companion Slider. Yes, it's heavy. I have the turnover mount that allows the hitch to be removed and a ball to be installed to tow goosenecks.

Having dealt with B&W Turnover Ball and Companion hitches before, I'd say they're one of the best on the market, despite being heavy. Rock-solid construction.

 

[68PowerWagon]

Having dealt with B&W Turnover Ball and Companion hitches before, I'd say they're one of the best on the market, despite being heavy. Rock-solid construction.

I 2nd that... one of the best & yes very heavy! After the initial mounting I will NEVER try to put it in my bed again by hand! I will use the forklift at my work. I just scaled it a few months ago & I think it was like 375 pounds with the rails.

 

[2003F350]

I 2nd that... one of the best & yes very heavy! After the initial mounting I will NEVER try to put it in my bed again by hand! I will use the forklift at my work. I just scaled it a few months ago & I think it was like 375 pounds with the rails.

The trick is to remove the head and put both parts in separately. The base should still be lifted by two people, but it makes it much more manageable. Since the head only comes off with IIRC two pins, it's not difficult nor time consuming.

I LOVE the B&W system. If/when I ever get a new truck, I don't know if I'll spring for the mfg's 'puck' system or if I'll opt for the B&W.