8HP70 fluid exchange

[Mopar1987]

All right. I own a quick lube and have recently serviced a 2014 with 8 speed. Did not drop the pan. We have an exchange machine that is low pressure, uses trans pump mostly, is a 1 for 1 exchange, and is installed inline at the cooler line connection. Now, the fluid we use is a universal product that says is compatible with 68218925AA, the Mopar 8-9 speed fluid.

We did the service on 10-1. On 11-14 the customer went to the dealership stating having to try multiple tries to get into reverse. They diagnosed it as the selector switch. Had it replaced. On 11-19 supposedly has the switch replaced. On 12-11, the trans quits all together. This is all from the current repair order that I have of the truck. I am not 100% sure if all the services had the same customer concern.

So, after all this the dealership pulls some fluid out and says, no warranty, I used atf+4 and of course it a "sealed for life transmission". I file a claim with my insurance. Gave them the spec sheet showing compatibility. They deny the claim because we used "correct" fluid. Service manager says he "spoke" to the field rep and they are not going to do anything about it. Alright, I get it. I've done my research. I did the exact same procedure and fluid on my wife's durango and it's still running fine.

Contacted the manufacturer of the trans fluid and they keep saying its compatible. Now they want me to send a sample.

In the mean time, I have authorized the repairs for the truck and will be paying out of pocket. I will not become "that shop".

Not sure if this a rant or just a "have any of you guys seen something like this" advise kind of thing. I am sure I will be having to take this to court with the dealership. Everyone I've talked to keeps bringing up the Magnuson Moss Act with the warranty deal. Anyway, have a good weekend, folks.

 

[Mopar1987]

And what spurred this post on was the post by tzr916 and his transmission issues. Don't know if the dealership is trying to cover up a major F-up with my fluid or what.

 

[PoMansRam]

How many miles were on this 2014 when you did the ATF service? Did the old fluid look bad?

That's what blows about a situation like this. That trans could have has issues going into this.

I guess make sure you don't use red ATF in the 8hp70 and 45.

I feel for ya man. You could probably fight this with an attorney, but that costs a ton too.

 

[Mopar1987]

The mileage at the time of the service was approx 86000. The fluid we use is red. Same as Valveoline MaxLife that I’ve see plenty of people use

 

[Mpgrimm2]

A few guys here have replaced the pan and done a fluid fill themselves.
Maybe @R.L.K. knows what he and others used and the related thread. I've heard the correct fluid referred to as "unicorn blood".

M² Mods.

 

[Mopar1987]

A few guys here have replaced the pan and done a fluid fill themselves.
Maybe @R.L.K. knows what he and others used and the related thread. I've heard the correct fluid referred to as "unicorn blood".

M² Mods.

Yeah. Crap is stupid expensive from the dealership

 

[Jdoc]

I'm changing my fluid and pan /filter. The fluid I'm using is redline D6 atf. Its compatible with the zf lifeguard fluid and is for the 8,9 speed german trannys . I have 2 gal. Of fluid just waiting on the pan filter

 

[Kap1]

All right. I own a quick lube and have recently serviced a 2014 with 8 speed. Did not drop the pan. We have an exchange machine that is low pressure, uses trans pump mostly, is a 1 for 1 exchange, and is installed inline at the cooler line connection. Now, the fluid we use is a universal product that says is compatible with 68218925AA, the Mopar 8-9 speed fluid.

We did the service on 10-1. On 11-14 the customer went to the dealership stating having to try multiple tries to get into reverse. They diagnosed it as the selector switch. Had it replaced. On 11-19 supposedly has the switch replaced. On 12-11, the trans quits all together. This is all from the current repair order that I have of the truck. I am not 100% sure if all the services had the same customer concern.

So, after all this the dealership pulls some fluid out and says, no warranty, I used atf+4 and of course it a "sealed for life transmission". I file a claim with my insurance. Gave them the spec sheet showing compatibility. They deny the claim because we used "correct" fluid. Service manager says he "spoke" to the field rep and they are not going to do anything about it. Alright, I get it. I've done my research. I did the exact same procedure and fluid on my wife's durango and it's still running fine.

Contacted the manufacturer of the trans fluid and they keep saying its compatible. Now they want me to send a sample.

In the mean time, I have authorized the repairs for the truck and will be paying out of pocket. I will not become "that shop".

Not sure if this a rant or just a "have any of you guys seen something like this" advise kind of thing. I am sure I will be having to take this to court with the dealership. Everyone I've talked to keeps bringing up the Magnuson Moss Act with the warranty deal. Anyway, have a good weekend, folks.

Hey, I know how this feels as I was in a similar situation, but you did the right thing by covering the repair cost. Or at least least damage for you and your shops reputation. Now let's try to get to the bottom of this. Is the old transmission still available? Maybe you can send a sample to Blackstone labs for testing? Not sure what would that show but maybe help to confirm that it had issues prior to you changing fluid?

When I did fluid change on my 8 speed, I specifically asked the independent shop to use Mopar genuine one to avoid any possible issues as I've heard this 8 speed is very picky and regarding fluid

 

[PoMansRam]

The mileage at the time of the service was approx 86000. The fluid we use is red. Same as Valveoline MaxLife that I’ve see plenty of people use

I'm not suggesting the fluid had anything to do it. I know I've used Valvoline Maxlife ATF in Honda, Toyota, Nissan(Jatco) and Hyundai automatics with nothing but perfect results. The times I've used a local transmission shop, I know they use universal fluids without issue for conventional automatics. CVTs they'll use OEM only even though I know "suitable for use", 'off-color' CVT fluids work well on them as well.

As you've seen, the problem that will arise when a unit comes in for warranty work is, as soon as they see a different color fluid than OEM, they basically wash their hands of it. Doesn't matter if the problem was caused by the ATF or not. I'm sure with proper documentation of what properly suited ATF was used and some legal help, FCA would cover it. One of the biggest hurdles is the dealer. You're at the mercy of them to get the ball rolling and in my experience, FCA dealers generally suck.

Long story short, to keep it simple, use OEM colored ATF while you're still under warranty, if warranty is important to you. Me personally? They can bite me. I'll use what I want.

 

[chrisbh17]

Another question is - do you void the warranty simply by changing (or having changed) the transmission fluid?

After all, its "lifetime" rated and no maintenance schedule published by RAM/FCA say to change it, so are you voiding the warranty by doing so?

 

[Pull Ya]

I thought depending on the type of usage it was suppose to be serviced at about 100k or about 60 thousand miles. I'll check my owners manual to make sure---
Jay

 

[tap4154]

Was the transmission showing any signs that it needed servicing? Considering they’re labeled sealed for lifetime, though we don’t know what lifetime means (I might assume 150,000) It seems like you’d want to wait at least until it showed some signs that it needed servicing. In any case I hope you get some relief from the manufacture that claimed that the fluid is compatible.

That said, I’ve avoided those fluid exchange machines like the plague. Seems to me they could knock sludge loose that could cause clogs, or put stress on old seals.

 

[PoMansRam]

I thought depending on the type of usage it was suppose to be serviced at about 100k or about 60 thousand miles. I'll check my owners manual to make sure---
Jay

If I'm reading the Mopar site correctly for late model Ram 1500 maintenance recommendations, it only lists transmission fluid/filter change at 120K miles for the 6spd auto and to do it at 60K and 120K if used for police, taxi, fleet, towing, etc.. No mention at all for maintenance on the 8spds. All they care about is getting them beyond 100K miles. Ridiculous.

What I still haven't been able to figure out is, the plastic pans on our 8HP70 and 45's have what looks like a drain plug on them. Problem is, I don't know if it's a single use drain or can it be repeatedly used? If it can be used and tightened back up, spill and fills would be a breeze on these. Drain it cold, refill it cold with the same amount you drained out. You can't get it wrong that way.

 

[Pull Ya]

There is suppose to be a really good U tube on changing the pan,filter and fluid on the 8 speeds out there somewhere. I guess it's really important to make sure the truck is "level" when you are refilling the trans with fluid. I think there is also an aftermarket pan that has a disposable filter so you can just change the filter and not the whole pan. They also say that manually filling the trans is not much fun either.
Jay

 

[chrisbh17]

Yeah, having the truck level is key but I think a lot of people miss that step.

Think of fluid sitting in a pan that is NOT level. One end of the pan will have a lot more fluid than the other end. Now picture our trucks with the "fill plug" on the end of the pan with more fluid. Its basically skewing the reading by "showing" too much fluid on that end but in reality the level is good, or maybe even low.

And since trans fluid expands with heat, you need to check it with the truck level *and* the fluid at a certain temperature. Once all of the parameters are in place, its actually not that hard

Open fill plug, fill until fluid starts to come out of the fill plug, replace fill plug. Follow service manual directions (you need to idle the truck in reverse, drive, then drive into 2nd gear and hold, etc). Remove fill plug again, let fluid drain until it stops, replace fill plug and you're done. If no fluid drains when you remove the plug again, fill until it does, wait until the extra stops draining and replace the plug. Done.

The filter being integrated sucks because it makes everything more expensive, but if we're doing it every 60K miles its not a *huge* deal.

And this is probably the only factory fluid I would stick with, even if it is expensive.

 

[PoMansRam]

I get what everyone is saying with the "need to make the transmission level" thing, but if you drop the pan cold, measure the amount of fluid that came out, mount the new pan and add the same amount of cold ATF back in as you removed, how is this going to change the level from what you started with? It cannot.

Sure, the level could have been off from the start, but unlikely.

 

[Mopar1987]

As far as the maintenance schedule, no, Ram does not show a service schedule for the 8 speed. Now, if you look at ZF's website, they show a 100,000 km or 62,000 mile schedule. They have videos showing how to do the service. They also sell a kit for the units, for all manufacturers that use the ZF transmission. Now granted, the fluid they sell with the kit is Lifetime 8, but still. I will be emailing someone at ZF and try to get a definite answer as far as go by ZF's schedule or FCA. I will be sending a sample to the oil manufacturer as well as sending a sample to an independent tester myself.

 

[Mopar1987]

https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemedia/lol-lubricants/lol-en/lol-te-ml-11-en.pdf

Did some research. Very interesting read!!

 

[Pull Ya]

^^^ great find---worth printing out and keeping for future reference.
Jay

 

[Mopar1987]

I love the “filled maintenance free under normal driving conditions”. So that’s how FCA is doing it. Saying the 8 speed is maintenance free due to a technicality.