8HP70 Swap Options - What am I missing?

[StickyLifter]

I'm a bit new to RAM stuff, so help me get this straight. I'm looking at different options for the poorly geared and fragile 65RFE transmission in my 2014 RAM 1500.

I've got a plan almost completely figured out for a 66RFE swap that involves the following:

Get a 2WD 66RFE transmission and swap in a 65RFE tailshaft and extension housing. Seal up the valve body and load it with Sonnax stuff, bring line pressure up to 210psi like the diesel guys, and let it rip. I'd change nothing else, just use HP tuners to load a transmission map from a 2500 5.7L/66RFE PCM. My truck's GPEC2 PCM and harness should be able to run it just fine.

The 8HP70 would be even better in my 3.55:1 RCSB, but it's a little more involved.

I think this is what is needed:

8HP70 2WD transmisison
transmission harness to PCM
drive shaft
trans crossmember
rotary knob for the dash
wire harness from rotary knob to vehicle harness
Use HP Tuners to flash a map from a 8HP70 1500 to the PCM and let the TCM do the rest.

What am I missing? Why are people buying a stand alone harness/OBD plug for this? Do they just do that when they are doing a 3G or 2G swap? I can't figure out why this would be needed in a 4G swap, it was a factory option.

Why is everyone saying an 8HP70 swap is impossible or a $10,000 deal?

 

[RedSRT4Me]

I'm a bit new to RAM stuff, so help me get this straight. I'm looking at different options for the poorly geared and fragile 65RFE transmission in my 2014 RAM 1500.

I've got a plan almost completely figured out for a 66RFE swap that involves the following:

Get a 2WD 66RFE transmission and swap in a 65RFE tailshaft and extension housing. Seal up the valve body and load it with Sonnax stuff, bring line pressure up to 210psi like the diesel guys, and let it rip. I'd change nothing else, just use HP tuners to load a transmission map from a 2500 5.7L/66RFE PCM. My truck's GPEC2 PCM and harness should be able to run it just fine.

The 8HP70 would be even better in my 3.54:1 RCSB, but it's a little more involved.

I think this is what is needed:

8HP70 2WD transmisison
transmission harness to PCM
drive shaft
trans crossmember
rotary knob for the dash
wire harness from rotary knob to vehicle harness
Use HP Tuners to flash a map from a 8HP70 1500 to the PCM and let the TCM do the rest.

What am I missing? Why are people buying a stand alone harness/OBD plug for this? Do they just do that when they are doing a 3G or 2G swap? I can't figure out why this would be needed in a 4G swap, it was a factory option.

Why is everyone saying an 8HP70 swap is impossible or a $10,000 deal?

I believe they say 10k because that's the current rate someone would charge to swap your truck.

Would it cost a DIY'er 10k absolutely not. You could probably source all the parts new/used for 2-3k.

But that remaining 7-8 grand is the knowledge that person possesses to swap the truck on the first try. Depending on how many hours it takes you. I'm definitely looking into swapping my 2005 reg cab to the 8-speed also.

 

[StickyLifter]

Okay, so I would guess that your 2005 deal will be more trouble than my 2014 because your harness, PCM, and the rest of the truck were never designed to accept the 8HP70, but I'm sure it can be done! You might need that $1000 controller/pigtail with the OBD port on it so that you can flash the TCM inside the 8HP70. Anything done to get rid of the 65RFE's ratios is a win!

 

[RedSRT4Me]

I plan to use all OEM. The 4.7 died so a 5.7 is getting installed. To simplify things I'll use the 2015 5.7 engine, tranny, PCM and TCM. I just need to make sure everything is flashed with VIN etc so I can get passed the key immobilizer and fire it up on the 1st try.

 

[StickyLifter]

Tell me about this chassis/powertrain component married to the VIN garbage. What is that? Can I fix that with HP Tuners? I do not want ANYTHING to do with my local RAM dealer if I can help it.

 

[RedSRT4Me]

Tell me about this chassis/powertrain component married to the VIN garbage. What is that? Can I fix that with HP Tuners? I do not want ANYTHING to do with my local RAM dealer if I can help it.

Try out this link. It gives a basic idea of what is needed.
https://www.solopcms.com/blog/dodge-pcm-reflash/

It's my understanding when using the newer PCM's the vehicle has a protocol of checks it goes through before it will start the vehicle to prevent theft.

If the protocol isn't approved the vehicle will refuse to start.

 

[StickyLifter]

Checked the link and it's pretty basic and doesn't go into specifics on the GPEC2 FCA trucks. This could be a wrinkle in my plan...

Anyone else know about the PCM not accepting a different transmission? Can I use HP Tuners to make it shut up and accept what I am doing? Does it take a trip to the dealer?

 

[Wild one]

Give Russell a shout at Sound German,and Charles at Hellraiser. Hellraiser has put the 8HP90 into an older 5 speed truck,and Russell is the guy doing the stand alone computor . There's a guy doing the 8 speed swap into an older 3rd Gen right now over on either Tuned Rams or High Performance Rams on facebook,and is supposedly thinking of doing a kit to put the 8 speed into the 3rd Gens.You'll have to go digging for his posts on the swap,as they'll be down a bit now. If you're not on facebook ,you'll have to join and then join both sites to find him,as i forget his name right at the moment,and he's not on here as far as i know.

http://www.soundgermanautomotive.com/

https://www.hellraisertransmission.com/

 

[Tach_tech]

The dealer can’t flash your PCM to accept the 8 speed. We can only flash configurations/updates to the original configuration, can’t change it.

I don’t know if you can do it with HP tuners, I’ve never looked on it if you can change the trans configuration. You may be better of with a PCM from a 8 speed truck.

 

[Jtblackram]

The dealer can’t flash your PCM to accept the 8 speed. We can only flash configurations/updates to the original configuration, can’t change it.

I don’t know if you can do it with HP tuners, I’ve never looked on it if you can change the trans configuration. You may be better of with a PCM from a 8 speed truck.

I second that, 8 speed pcm programmed to your vin might be a better idea

 

[StickyLifter]

I know I can do it with HP Tuners, there is a list of transmissions on the first page of the "Transmission" tab and you can select NAG1, 8HP70, any RFE, manual, or older RE boxes. The fields are prepopulated, you just set the box to "enabled" next to your selection and then fill in the shift tables. I don't know if there is something beyond that though. I have heard of the dealer having to "marry" powertrain components to the vehicle PCM, and that had better not be the case with this or it will ruin my plans to save this truck.

PS: This is going into a 4th gen RAM, a 2014, which had the 8HP70 as an option, so it really shouldn't be this hard to get info and get it done. If I can do this, I'm going to, and when I do I'll be on here posting about every detail so that we've got a documented process for other poor "6 speed" truck owners duped by FCA. The fewer 65RFEs out there, the better our world becomes. I'll be smashing mine with a hammer. No one should have 51mph in each gear!

 

[Wild one]

I know I can do it with HP Tuners, there is a list of transmissions on the first page of the "Transmission" tab and you can select NAG1, 8HP70, any RFE, manual, or older RE boxes. The fields are prepopulated, you just set the box to "enabled" next to your selection and then fill in the shift tables. I don't know if there is something beyond that though. I have heard of the dealer having to "marry" powertrain components to the vehicle PCM, and that had better not be the case with this or it will ruin my plans to save this truck.

PS: This is going into a 4th gen RAM, a 2014, which had the 8HP70 as an option, so it really shouldn't be this hard to get info and get it done. If I can do this, I'm going to, and when I do I'll be on here posting about every detail so that we've got a documented process for other poor "6 speed" truck owners duped by FCA. The fewer 65RFEs out there, the better our world becomes. I'll be smashing mine with a hammer. No one should have 51mph in each gear!

You've never drove a 2 speed Powerglide then,and not many of the older 3 speed auto's either,lol

 

[StickyLifter]

You've never drove a 2 speed Powerglide then,and not many of the older 3 speed auto's either,lol

I built and drive my 2600lb Geo Metro with my TH350 in it, but it has a reverse manual valve body, a 4.71:1 final gear, and about 500hp. If the truck drove like that, I wouldn't be looking into 66RFE and 8HP70 swaps. Then again, my Metro would be screaming on the interstate because no overdrive, so I'll take the 8HP70 in a street vehicle!

I just got off the phone with the guy from Sound German Automotive and he was super nice and informative. He said because my truck is a 2014 and the 8HP was an option, I shouldn't need his controller, just use HP Tuners to tune the PCM and a software called Alpha OBD and a device to program the BCM to accept the transmission. I think I will need another piece of hardware like an OBDLink MX+ to run that software. The hardware looks suspiciously like the one sent for HP Tuners, so I'm going to get back with them to see if there's will do it all.

They have really got this stuff locked down. Kinda makes me wish I could scrap it all and go with a big Chevy Mark IV and the new 10spd in a 1st gen Nissan Titan. Best looks + best powertrain = win! Guess it depends on how hard I'm willing to work for it.

 

[charonblk07]

They have really got this stuff locked down. Kinda makes me wish I could scrap it all and go with a big Chevy Mark IV and the new 10spd in a 1st gen Nissan Titan. Best looks + best powertrain = win! Guess it depends on how hard I'm willing to work for it.

Welcome to the Mopar life: Make it more difficult, more expensive, and harder to go faster.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wild one]

Welcome to the Mopar life: Make it more difficult, more expensive, and harder to go faster.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Holy **** he's alive. About damn time you popped back in here Kurtis,lol. Got any video's of the new set-up to post?

 

[StickyLifter]

Yeah, so my truck ticks and has for the last 60,000 miles. So far we have:

Fake 6spd 65RFE has problems and bad gearing.
Pathetic cam and valvetrain oiling issues. Who wipes out a hydraulic roller cam with dinky stock springs?
Cross drilled crank was known bad by 1957.
So much potential, so poorly executed.
Way to go FCA!

I've ordered parts for my Corvette and will be buying a GM truck next time. I'll never buy another Chrysler product.

 

[Tach_tech]

Yeah, so my truck ticks and has for the last 60,000 miles. So far we have:

Fake 6spd 65RFE has problems and bad gearing.
Pathetic cam and valvetrain oiling issues. Who wipes out a hydraulic roller cam with dinky stock springs?
Cross drilled crank was known bad by 1957.
So much potential, so poorly executed.
Way to go FCA!

I've ordered parts for my Corvette and will be buying a GM truck next time. I'll never buy another Chrysler product.

I’m in no way defending any Chrysler issues. However the 65rfe, while it may just be programming to get the extra 6th gear, it’s still a real gear ratio change. Who wipes out cams with stock springs? GM does as well on there AFM trucks. Know a few techs who work at a GM dealer and they’re doing them all the time as well.

All brands have their problems, but if you feel it will be all sunshine at Rainbows with a GM, good luck.

 

[StickyLifter]

I’m in no way defending any Chrysler issues. However the 65rfe, while it may just be programming to get the extra 6th gear, it’s still a real gear ratio change. Who wipes out cams with stock springs? GM does as well on there AFM trucks. Know a few techs who work at a GM dealer and they’re doing them all the time as well.

All brands have their problems, but if you feel it will be all sunshine at Rainbows with a GM, good luck.

I don't mean to come off nasty, I'm just mad about this. Still love y'all!

2nd gear is 1.62:1 and 3rd is 1.50:1.
It's a 5 speed that can be used for either the powertec V6 (1.62) or the V8 (1.50) so it's a 5spd with two 2nd gears that they labeled as a six speed in the year 2014. Pathetic.

No idea what GM's modern trucks are doing. Block oiling is very basic first grade engine design stuff that shouldn't even be an issue. Ever. How did they not wipe out roller cam lobes during their EXTENSIVE durability testing? ROLLER CAM. DAMN.

Im'ma find me a nice 454SS and be done with it for life.

This stuff isn't derivatives, we are talking about false advertising and flunking subtraction. I'm the customer and I think that **** is weak.

 

[Tach_tech]

The GM active fuel managements certainly do have issues with oiling,lifters, and cams. All it takes is a quick google search. I’m talking from first hand experience with other techs who work at GM dealers. Melting even released a bulletin about it.

 

[StickyLifter]

You win dude. I hate em all.


I hope I've emparted some information on this forum that someone can use.