A little squat?

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Tulet

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Looks like the fluid container is not centered on the trailer axles. It is putting more weight towards the tongue of the trailer.
 

Elkman

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Start by going to a CAT scale with the truck and trailer so you will know how much weight is on the rear axle and whether it exceeds the specs for the hitch. If not a problem then I would add SuperSprings to gain more support at the rear.

In terms of the trailer I would consider removing as much weight forward of the water tanks as possible.
 

mudrockatc

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I put some Timbrens on my 3500 dually for hauling my 17K fifth wheel, dropped a full 3 ins before the Timbrens, and only 1 1/2 ins after, easy install, no lines to run or connections to corrode, install them and forget them, no difference at all when not hauling!!
 

Bandit1859

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crash68

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I put some Timbrens on my 3500 dually for hauling my 17K fifth wheel, dropped a full 3 ins before the Timbrens, and only 1 1/2 ins after, easy install, no lines to run or connections to corrode, install them and forget them, no difference at all when not hauling!!
You might not be able to tell the ride difference in an unloaded 3500 with Timbrens, they already ride rough as can be(I just logged almost 1K miles in a new '22 3500 CTD SRW with the factory air suspension).
A 1500 is a different story, especially if there isn't enough weight to keep the Timbrens engaged. They make a 1500 feel almost as bad as HD truck.
 

TomB 1269

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Gents - I would argue (from stand point of actual experience) that if a helper system can bring truck back in to level then the weight loss off the front axle is minimal.
I had an F150 supercrew FX4 that had monroe load control shocks and 560+ lbs of tongue weight only dropped the rear a little less then 3/4 of an inch and only lifted the front by 1/2 an inch. I do not have my weight slips any more but if I remember correctly the front axle weight difference was under 200lbs (i.e. no different then putting 800lbs or so in the bed).

yes the truck only lost 3/4 of an inch out of its "factory" 2 inch rake with 560lbs of tongue weight.

Now if you get in to hi speed travel and stability, yes WDH always provides better "control" due to the leverage and friction of the system.

But a 6000/10000 hitch with 600/1000 tongue does not know the difference between WDH on or off. So its not a "safety" issue from the point of the hitch. It is about the attitude of the tow vehicle nose up or nose down and that is so that you can get proper braking and steering control.
 

pacofortacos

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I'll try these TTC 1211 rear springs, Do you think its a harsh ride? I don't mind a little firmer, in fact probably prefer it. there a discount code at TTP for ram forum?
I wouldn't call it harsh - unless on washboard gravel roads with the tires over 44 psi in them :)
I would say they just give a more of a truck ride vs. a car ride. When loaded, I found the ride to be superior over the stock springs. I ran them for years.

They will also help control body lean going around bends.

They are easy to install, I just disconnected the shocks bottom mounting bolt and jacked the body up till the flexible brake hose ran out of slack - do not go past this point or you will damage the hose. Then put stands under the body and pulled down on the stock spring to compress it very slightly and pulled it out. The 1211's are shorter and will go in with room to spare. Keep the rubber isolator in place and just lower the body down slightly while making sure the spring is still in position (I would just get a bit of weight on the spring and jiggle it to make sure it is in position). Then lower that side of the truck and repeat on the other side. When both sides are done reattach the lower shock bolts and you are done.
I leave the tires on the entire time and it takes about a 0.5-1 hrs to do.
 

ramffml

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Gents - I would argue (from stand point of actual experience) that if a helper system can bring truck back in to level then the weight loss off the front axle is minimal.
I had an F150 supercrew FX4 that had monroe load control shocks and 560+ lbs of tongue weight only dropped the rear a little less then 3/4 of an inch and only lifted the front by 1/2 an inch. I do not have my weight slips any more but if I remember correctly the front axle weight difference was under 200lbs (i.e. no different then putting 800lbs or so in the bed).

yes the truck only lost 3/4 of an inch out of its "factory" 2 inch rake with 560lbs of tongue weight.

Now if you get in to hi speed travel and stability, yes WDH always provides better "control" due to the leverage and friction of the system.

But a 6000/10000 hitch with 600/1000 tongue does not know the difference between WDH on or off. So its not a "safety" issue from the point of the hitch. It is about the attitude of the tow vehicle nose up or nose down and that is so that you can get proper braking and steering control.

Helper springs in the back just fix the problem visually, but can really make your front end problem worse. Think of an old school playground teeter-totter. If you press down on the very "back" of it, the front comes up. Now change the pivot point on that teeter-totter to a coil spring. If you press down on the back of it, the spring will absorb some/all of it, and the front is not nearly as eager to move up. The softer you make that spring, the more it will compress/absorb the force, and the less likely the front side is to move off the ground.

In your truck, your rear axle/suspension is that pivot point. You add weight to the back of your truck and it has to go somewhere. Either your rear suspension compresses, or if it is so strong that it doesn't move (because you added some tough springs/helper system) then it becomes a pivot which raises your front of the ground. The stronger your suspension, the more it will force the front off the ground and the worse your control of your steering gets.

Way too many people jump to helper systems when instead they should be first using a WDH and using it correctly (which is a second issue all by itself). I would even argue that if you can't fix your squat with a WDH then there is a very high probability that your truck is too small for the job. By "fix" I don't mean eliminate, there is nothing wrong with a level rear or even a bit of sag past level.
 

crash68

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But a 6000/10000 hitch with 600/1000 tongue does not know the difference between WDH on or off. So its not a "safety" issue from the point of the hitch. It is about the attitude of the tow vehicle nose up or nose down and that is so that you can get proper braking and steering control.
What your forgetting about is the physics that are constantly being applied, read below.
In your truck, your rear axle/suspension is that pivot point. You add weight to the back of your truck and it has to go somewhere. Either your rear suspension compresses, or if it is so strong that it doesn't move (because you added some tough springs/helper system) then it becomes a pivot which raises your front of the ground. The stronger your suspension, the more it will force the front off the ground and the worse your control of your steering gets.
^^^^ this exactly
 

pacofortacos

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While that sounds good in theory, my real world experience is similar to Tom B.

Soft springs = nose up = no steering.
Firmer springs = very little front rise = good steering ( not as good as using a WDH forcing the front back down) but much better than the nose up scenario.

The pivot point is negated to a degree because of the relationship of the front and rear to the pivot point. This same effect is seen on a seesaw that has the pivot point moved to one side - ie. one short side, one long side..
The laws of leverage take over at that point and for the short side to make the long side rise takes much more force vs. the amount of force that it takes for the long side to raise the short side. The skinny kid on the long side can lift the fat kid on the short side with ease.

The truck has that big heavy engine sitting on the long side and almost no weight behind the rear wheels.

The pivot point is always there with either spring setup.
 

ramffml

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While that sounds good in theory, my real world experience is similar to Tom B.

Soft springs = nose up = no steering.
Firmer springs = very little front rise = good steering ( not as good as using a WDH forcing the front back down) but much better than the nose up scenario.

The pivot point is negated to a degree because of the relationship of the front and rear to the pivot point. This same effect is seen on a seesaw that has the pivot point moved to one side - ie. one short side, one long side..
The laws of leverage take over at that point and for the short side to make the long side rise takes much more force vs. the amount of force that it takes for the long side to raise the short side. The skinny kid on the long side can lift the fat kid on the short side with ease.

The truck has that big heavy engine sitting on the long side and almost no weight behind the rear wheels.

The pivot point is always there with either spring setup.

It's not just a theory. There are many who have experienced towing with a squirrely/light front end. You should try it sometime, it really helps clean out your insides :)
 

pacofortacos

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Oh I agree with that statement.
I was just saying that soft springs tend to give you nose high and a really light front end vs. heavier springs which don't seem to let the nose rise nearly as much or give as light front end steering feel - just comparing springs, not springs vs. WDH.

As far as the OP's trailer, I agree it is not an ideal weight distribution. That's a lot of weight on the front of the trailer.
5 lug wheels means those are 3000 lb axles, so he is at max weight for the trailer - maybe over, maybe under - being a steel trailer his actual carrying capacity is most likely under 5000 lbs. if not 4500 lb.
Might be all local towing though too, and usually lower speeds but that is just speculation.
 
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djtomy

djtomy

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Oh I agree with that statement.
I was just saying that soft springs tend to give you nose high and a really light front end vs. heavier springs which don't seem to let the nose rise nearly as much or give as light front end steering feel - just comparing springs, not springs vs. WDH.

As far as the OP's trailer, I agree it is not an ideal weight distribution. That's a lot of weight on the front of the trailer.
5 lug wheels means those are 3000 lb axles, so he is at max weight for the trailer - maybe over, maybe under - being a steel trailer his actual carrying capacity is most likely under 5000 lbs. if not 4500 lb.
Might be all local towing though too, and usually lower speeds but that is just speculation.
Yes exactly, 3500 axles and local use only... I clean Chick Fil A's. I usually don't carry that much water. This is my back up vehicle, and the only truck I could afford without taking on a loan since the trans in my E250 is out. 1211 Springs should be in any day now. I'm also doing all new brakes and rotors. along with a radiator and new ac condenser fan. I still need to find a factory Brake Trailer controller. Thanks for everyone's comments I'm learning a lot and find this Ram to be easier to work on, and more enjoyable to drive than the fords
 

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pacofortacos

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for cheaper OEM parts try, it's where I got my oem brake controller. I don't know if you will need to have the PCM flashed to activate the oem brake controller though (not sure on a 2011), I had to on my 16. I used alphaobd and a MX+ to do it.

car-part.com

I visit CFA's way too much lol. The Destin area is beautiful too.

I think you will like the 1211 springs
 
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djtomy

djtomy

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for cheaper OEM parts try, it's where I got my oem brake controller. I don't know if you will need to have the PCM flashed to activate the oem brake controller though (not sure on a 2011), I had to on my 16. I used alphaobd and a MX+ to do it.

car-part.com

I visit CFA's way too much lol. The Destin area is beautiful too.

I think you will like the 1211 springs
The Springs should be here Tuesday or Wednesday, Destin is nice, Like everything great, it's getting crowded. I found and ordered a used OEM brake controller. Now I need to source a bezel. I can't post in the wanted forums yet, I guess I will have to wait. The trailer brakes will work with just adding the new controller. No need to flash. If you do flash, then the EVIC will display the trailer brake controller in the system. The controller will work without the flash. I'll look into those..

Basically, this is what I need to get the Trailer Brakes going. Just The trim bezel, funny thing is when you order the kit from Mopar it comes with two Bezels! depending on which dash color you have. so, I know there's a bunch of extra ones out there.
 

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djtomy

djtomy

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its says 100 posts and 30 days to post up in the for sale wanted..
 
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djtomy

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less water this time 2011 5.7 3.92.. and My 2011 e250 4.6 with about the same amount.

IMG_9359.jpgIMG_9413.jpgIMG_9357.jpgIMG_9412.jpg
 

pacofortacos

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The truck will probably be close to level with the new springs.

Bezel might be in a wrecking yard near you or try ebay even.
 
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to solve this problem and i had the same with my camper, 30 foot 6300 lbs sagging rear end, I installed load lifters 5000 air shocks nd This issue was solved, plus I installed ranchos shocks in the rear
 
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