All the math says...

[Farmer Fran]

By the wisdom of this site, the 6.4 with 4.10s is a better (by far) tow vehicle vs. the cummins in the Ram 2500. Stricky talking legal tow and payload ratings.

 

[crash68]

Just from a payload standpoint(CTD is lower by 1K)...trailer weight the 6.4 is a 2K lower.
Making a statement that the 6.4 is a better tow vehicle, obviously shows someone hasn't towed with a Cummins (or diesel for that matter).

 

[ronheater70]

Ohh the sarcasm is strong in this one!!

By the math, the Hemi can Haul more... 3/4 diesels of every manufactures are possibly the most overloaded truck out there.(typically the crew cabs). I can't tell you how many times I have seen them pulling 40' 5th wheels, just because it is a diesel..BUt it will pull it, and pull it well! In a rv forum I frequent, a gentleman spent nearly 70 Grand on a top of the line cummins diesel, and then nearly 40 grand on the rv, only to find out he was overweight by nearly 1000 pounds... Now a Gas 3/4 ton would have handled the payload very nicely, but it wouldn't have pulled it nearly as well, so round and round you go.. the old saying, your cargo limits are most often reached before the towing limits.. Shoot, many 1/2 tons these days can have more payload than a 3/4 ton crew cab diesel..

 

[Farmer Fran]

Just from a payload standpoint(CTD is lower by 1K)...trailer weight the 6.4 is a 2K lower.
Making a statement that the 6.4 is a better tow vehicle, obviously shows someone hasn't towed with a Cummins (or diesel for that matter).

Legally speaking it is a way better tow vehicle.

By legal math; (I'll go by trucks in my area) 4x4 - CC - Long Box using the 2015 chart.

CTD = 2190 payload - 17020 Tow rating
6.4 = 3110 payload - 15440 Tow rating

So if they are towing the same item weighing 15000 pounds

The CTD has ~600 lbs of payload left for gas, people and gear
The 6.4 has ~1600 lbs of payload left for gas, people and gear

Strictly legally speaking that 6.4 is a LOT better.

 

[Farmer Fran]

I have no dog in the fight... mine is a 5.7 1500 4x4 CC short box

 

[crash68]

It amounts to where you put the weight.
The real eye-opener​ will be taking that same 15K trailer up mild 4% grade, both trucks will go up and over. The CTD will handle that without a struggle, then there is the engine/turbo braking for the downhill. You'll know there is a whole lot of load behind a 6.4 towing that hill, it would probably make Scotty say "I'm giving her all she's got captain" ..lol
What's even more interesting, the CTD has a 3K higher GVWR even though it has the 1K extra weight. Saying that the 6.4 can tow a 15K trailer "more legally" starts to sound like the two ******** that were arguing over payload vs GVWR.
When it comes to legality, a Motor Carrier is pretty much concerned with GCWR and GAWR. When you roll over the scales, they check the axle weights, add them all up. That better be under the GCWR or what your plated for.

 

[Jimmy07]

When it comes to legality, a Motor Carrier is pretty much concerned with GCWR and GAWR. When you roll over the scales, they check the axle weights, add them all up. That better be under the GCWR or what your plated for.

^This. And both engine options have the same GAWR.

 

[Farmer Fran]

It amounts to where you put the weight.

I agree, but you also have to maintain the proper tongue weight for safe towing

 

[mtofell]

I get the point and it's valid. 2200# payload vs 3000# is a BIG difference in "carrying" weight. Of course, the diesel vs gas is a BIG difference with "pulling" weight.

 

[crash68]

the diesel vs gas is a BIG difference with "pulling" weight.

http://www.ramforum.com/f119/pushing_6_4_its_limits-104069/
A link to your actual pulling experience.
Even with 4.10 gearing how do you think the 6.4 would handle an extra 4K? (using the mythical 15K trailer mentioned above)

 

[mtofell]

http://www.ramforum.com/f119/pushing_6_4_its_limits-104069/
A link to your actual pulling experience.
Even with 4.10 gearing how do you think the 6.4 would handle an extra 4K? (using the mythical 15K trailer mentioned above)

The 4.10s vs my 3.73s would be better but probably not life changing. I'd have to sit down with the RPM/Tire/Gear Ratio calculator to really know. As I allude to at the end of the quoted post, this engine could be amazing if paired with a capable tranny.... and/or some better gears. I have to think the 4.56 gearing would be pretty amazing with what I towed this weekend. Bringing the meat of the 2nd gear power down to 40-ish vs 50ish would make all the difference.

How would it all do with another 4K and 4.10s? I have to think it would struggle. I feel as though I was right up against the limit of what this truck should carry. According to Ram the 4.10s give an extra 3000# of hauling. So, the 4.10s at the max with 22,500 trailer/truck combined hauling up 6% grades with altitude sucking the life out of the engine? Honestly it all depends if it can hold 2nd gear. If so, it could pull it. If it drops down to 1st you'd be hard pressed to regain 2nd until the hills flatten a touch.

Something worth noting that I didn't mention in the other post is the gas engine screaming really isn't that noticeable. The sound deadening in these newer trucks is pretty amazing. Sure, it's louder than the Cummins due to the RPMs but even up at 4500 RPMs it's not like I'm suffering.

My work is somewhat seasonal and when I have the time to leave my truck at the shop getting a re-gear done I don't feel like I have the money. When I have the money I don't have the time. I'm still letting this weekend settle in but I'm somewhat more happy with this truck than I was on Friday. It could have easily gone the other way.

 

[billyw]

This whole conversation is based on the un-realistic 10,000 lb GVWR of 2500 series trucks. It just doesn't add up when using artificial values. Bump up to 3500 series and the "math" changes considerably.

 

[rontimmer]

So I currently have a 2014 2500 with the 6.4 and 4.10 gears and I pull a 14500 pound fifth wheel with it. Admittedly this is at the top end of what this truck is capable of pulling and the truck handles it well. Would the CTD pull the weight better? Absolutely, is it worth the additional $8,000? Maybe. I am currently looking to move up to a 3500 with a CTD because I don't want to be so close to my max weights. At the end of the day it comes down to preference but i will say I was and am still very impressed with the 6.4 and I will miss it when I change trucks, I wish I could afford to keep it for a daily driver and still buy a 3500 to tow my fifth wheel with

 

[spoon059]

Legally speaking it is a way better tow vehicle.

By legal math; (I'll go by trucks in my area) 4x4 - CC - Long Box using the 2015 chart.

CTD = 2190 payload - 17020 Tow rating
6.4 = 3110 payload - 15440 Tow rating

So if they are towing the same item weighing 15000 pounds

The CTD has ~600 lbs of payload left for gas, people and gear
The 6.4 has ~1600 lbs of payload left for gas, people and gear

Strictly legally speaking that 6.4 is a LOT better.

Legality has NOTHING to do with GVWR limits that are arbitrarily applied by the manufacturer. LEGALLY, as long as you are below your tire limits and paid registration weights, you are fine. If I register my Ford Ranger to 14,000 lbs and put E rated tires with 3500 lbs per tire limits, then I can LEGALLY haul 14,000 lbs of truck and payload. I doubt I would be able to move it very far before a lot of things started to break... but it would be 100% LEGAL.

The 3/4 ton designation of 10,000 lbs is simply a regulatory number. Some jurisdictions limit the ability to drive a vehicle over 10,000 lbs in certain lanes, on certain roads or over certain bridges. Some jurisdictions define any vehicle over 10,000 lbs as commercial vehicles and charge more registration fees. That doesn't make it illegal to carry more than 10,000 lbs though.

 

[Jimmy07]

Legally speaking it is a way better tow vehicle.

By legal math; (I'll go by trucks in my area) 4x4 - CC - Long Box using the 2015 chart.

CTD = 2190 payload - 17020 Tow rating
6.4 = 3110 payload - 15440 Tow rating

So if they are towing the same item weighing 15000 pounds

The CTD has ~600 lbs of payload left for gas, people and gear
The 6.4 has ~1600 lbs of payload left for gas, people and gear

Strictly legally speaking that 6.4 is a LOT better.

The way you figured your leftover payload is not correct. As soon as you hook a trailer up, you no longer need to stay under the trucks gvwr. You now only need to stay under the gcwr and all the axle and tire ratings. Both vehicles have the same axle ratings, so that just leaves us with the motors, and I can assure you, the CTD is a FAR better tow vehicle.
Don't get me wrong, I love my 6.4. But when I had the 2010 CTD, I couldn't even feel my 9000lb TT behind me. The 6.4, on the other hand SCREAMS at me just trying to keep speed going up an incline.

 

[Farmer Fran]

Legality has NOTHING to do with GVWR limits that are arbitrarily applied by the manufacturer. LEGALLY, as long as you are below your tire limits and paid registration weights, you are fine. If I register my Ford Ranger to 14,000 lbs and put E rated tires with 3500 lbs per tire limits, then I can LEGALLY haul 14,000 lbs of truck and payload. I doubt I would be able to move it very far before a lot of things started to break... but it would be 100% LEGAL.

The 3/4 ton designation of 10,000 lbs is simply a regulatory number. Some jurisdictions limit the ability to drive a vehicle over 10,000 lbs in certain lanes, on certain roads or over certain bridges. Some jurisdictions define any vehicle over 10,000 lbs as commercial vehicles and charge more registration fees. That doesn't make it illegal to carry more than 10,000 lbs though.

The way you figured your leftover payload is not correct. As soon as you hook a trailer up, you no longer need to stay under the trucks gvwr. You now only need to stay under the gcwr and all the axle and tire ratings. Both vehicles have the same axle ratings, so that just leaves us with the motors, and I can assure you, the CTD is a FAR better tow vehicle.
Don't get me wrong, I love my 6.4. But when I had the 2010 CTD, I couldn't even feel my 9000lb TT behind me. The 6.4, on the other hand SCREAMS at me just trying to keep speed going up an incline.

SO wait... then I am OK to tow my rig...imagine that (not at you two personally but for all the haters that say I am over weight I.E. I am agreeing with you)


I am well under the GCWR of 16000 lbs

 

[Farmer Fran]

An yes I am well aware that the CTD is a better tow truck but I get constant **** about my setup which is well within legal and safe limits at each point.

 

[spoon059]

SO wait... then I am OK to tow my rig...imagine that (not at you two personally but for all the haters that say I am over weight I.E. I am agreeing with you)


I am well under the GCWR of 16000 lbs

There is a difference between LEGAL and INTELLIGENT. You can LEGALLY haul 14K lbs in that Ranger, but you would have to be pretty stupid to try it.

The fact is that the Ram 2500 is assigned a 10,000 lbs GVWR to comply with arbitrary regulations to keep it as a class 2B truck. Ram isn't spending the money to design a weaker version of the 3500... so they simply de-rate the 2500 to get the 10K lbs rating. In 2014 they decided to put coil springs (rated at 500 lbs less than the 3500's leaf springs) in the 2500.

The 2500 with 18" rims has 6000 lbs front axle rating and 6500 rear axle rating, for a total of 12.5K Gross Axle Rating. There is no reason to believe that the 2500 cannot properly support, haul, and (most importantly) stop itself if loaded to 12.5 GVWR. The only reason it has a lower GVWR is be stay at or under the 10,000 GVWR to keep it class 2B.

Its not rocket surgery... under tire and registered weights, perfectly legal but it might not be safe. Under tire, axle and registered weights, perfectly legal and safe.