ARH Long Tubes, Stock Air Intake. Weird Throttle response, Help!

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Fast69Mopar

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Ok, I spoke too soon. It threw Running Rich codes on the way home. I'm gonna stuff more steel wool into the downstream sensor adapters. But no Surging RPMs still. I'm gonna let it cool off and attack it tonight if it doesn't rain.
I dealt with this exact issue a few weeks ago with my Dad's 2016 Ram 1500 5.7. I didn't have my tuning laptop with me that has an older version of HP Tuners VCM Suite. I had my daily driver laptop with me that has the latest beta version of the VCM Suite. I need to get my Dad's truck ready for a state inspection here in Texas and I couldn't change the tune so I had to do what you are doing now. After trying to double stack the non-foulers and packing them with steel wool I had to go with three non-foulers per side to get the voltage right on the downstream oxygen sensors. With the latest version of HP Tuners you cannot turn off the downstream oxygen sensors so that was my limiting factor in the tune. Finally, after stacking three non-foulers per side no was able to get the voltage down to 0.488V on the downstream sensors.

If you had a scan tool you could monitor the voltage on your downstream oxygen sensors and see just how high the voltage is that is giving you the rich DTC's. It doesn't take much over 0.565V for the PCM to detect a rich condition and set a corresponding DTC.

Since you may not have a scan tool handy or HP Tuners I would put another non-fouler per side just to see what happens. Don't drill out the holes either. Place the 3rd one directly on the O2 **** on each side.
 

slbenz600

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Hey everyone, I did some searching and haven't come up with a good answer other than to contact @Wild one or Moe's for information.

Maybe someone here knows:
5.7l 4x4
My exhaust system is ARH long tubes with High Flow CAT's into 3" In/Out Borla Pro XS, into stock tail pipe and resonator (basically just the bend over the rear axle to the tip is stock)

I have ARH headers installed with the Stock Air box.
Idle is great, accelerating is weird now. My RPM's will fluctuate 100 or so during throttle, enough to hear the motor going up and down in RPMs while accelerating. I'm assuming that I'm starving the motor of air with the stock setup.
Either that or my back pressure is off with the 3" Borla? ( I know, I'm a firm believer of backpressure being a myth but I'm now questioning everything again.)
Can anyone confirm this?

If an air intake upgrade is required, what are the benefits of doing CAI vs Veraram?
Is a tune required to alleviate this issue?
and last question, will I need an upgraded throttle body or injectors if I do this?
Wild One: if I understand your post correctly you installed long tubes and then put the restrictor back in with 3 inch exhaust. My question is why did you not install dual exhaust eliminating the Y pipe? The Y pipe necks 2-31/4 pipes to 3 inch all your headers do is give a different sound. ??.
you have to get rid of the problem before helping your performance and mileage.
 

Wild one

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Wild One: if I understand your post correctly you installed long tubes and then put the restrictor back in with 3 inch exhaust. My question is why did you not install dual exhaust eliminating the Y pipe? The Y pipe necks 2-31/4 pipes to 3 inch all your headers do is give a different sound. ??.
you have to get rid of the problem before helping your performance and mileage.
I think you misread that post,lol.
 

Wild one

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Ok, I spoke too soon. It threw Running Rich codes on the way home. I'm gonna stuff more steel wool into the downstream sensor adapters. But no Surging RPMs still. I'm gonna let it cool off and attack it tonight if it doesn't rain.
Try out Fast's idea,first,and if it doesn't pan out a 100%,you can also buy 90 degree anti-foulers that should work if the stacked versions aren't panning out for you. If you end up with the 90's,i'd still stack at least one short straight anti-fouler under them.
 

Fast69Mopar

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Try out Fast's idea,first,and if it doesn't pan out a 100%,you can also buy 90 degree anti-foulers that should work if the stacked versions aren't panning out for you. If you end up with the 90's,i'd still stack at least one short straight anti-fouler under them.
I was going to recommend the exact same thing. I just haven't had a chance to do it yet.
 

Fast69Mopar

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I use Extension Cables on my Truck that I got of E-Bay and one of the Extension Cables didn't work I had to fix it.
For the extension harness, as it pertains to this issue, is actually not causing the OP's problem. The OP had originally installed a pair of non-foulers on his upstream oxygen sensors which was causing the RPM Fluctuation/Surge.
 

crackerjack1957

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angled-o2-simulator-compari.gif
 
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MartyZ

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Update: So I packed the adapters with a good amount of steel wool and it lasted a little longer than previous but my CEL came on again. I haven't read what codes exactly yet but its safe to say it is probably the Rich code on 1/2 and 2/2 again. I think I may have to go with the 90* adapter.
I will read the codes at lunch today to verify.

Where the truck currently stands:

Upstream O2 sensors
are threaded directly into exhaust, no adapters. (Thanks @Fast69Mopar )

Downstream O2 sensors have (2) adapters pre-sensor:
The 1st adapter has a stainless steel screen, this is threaded directly into the exhaust after the CAT.
I packed this adapter full of steel wool and then threaded the second adapter (18mm to 18mm, no screen) into the first.
Sensor is then installed into this 2nd adapter.

@crackerjack1957 I just checked out the link you posted, Would you say the 90* is still the way to go with these mini CAT style adapters? I only ask because the straight style is half the price of the 90*. I don't necessarily need a 90* for clearance, but is it still recommended to eliminate my CEL?

@Wild one If I Run a 90* and use a second adapter below it, should I pack it with steel wool? Is the Steel wool not needed if I use the style @crackerjack1957 posted?

Also, Is there a Stainless Steel Wool? That Picture @crackerjack1957 posted has me thinking I shouldn't use normal steel.

You guys are super helpful. I appreciate every bit of information you are all giving.
Best Forum on the Web for this stuff IMO. 10/10, would recommend.
:rockit:
 

Fast69Mopar

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Update: So I packed the adapters with a good amount of steel wool and it lasted a little longer than previous but my CEL came on again. I haven't read what codes exactly yet but its safe to say it is probably the Rich code on 1/2 and 2/2 again. I think I may have to go with the 90* adapter.
I will read the codes at lunch today to verify.

Where the truck currently stands:

Upstream O2 sensors
are threaded directly into exhaust, no adapters. (Thanks @Fast69Mopar )

Downstream O2 sensors have (2) adapters pre-sensor:
The 1st adapter has a stainless steel screen, this is threaded directly into the exhaust after the CAT.
I packed this adapter full of steel wool and then threaded the second adapter (18mm to 18mm, no screen) into the first.
Sensor is then installed into this 2nd adapter.

@crackerjack1957 I just checked out the link you posted, Would you say the 90* is still the way to go with these mini CAT style adapters? I only ask because the straight style is half the price of the 90*. I don't necessarily need a 90* for clearance, but is it still recommended to eliminate my CEL?

@Wild one If I Run a 90* and use a second adapter below it, should I pack it with steel wool? Is the Steel wool not needed if I use the style @crackerjack1957 posted?

Also, Is there a Stainless Steel Wool? That Picture @crackerjack1957 posted has me thinking I shouldn't use normal steel.

You guys are super helpful. I appreciate every bit of information you are all giving.
Best Forum on the Web for this stuff IMO. 10/10, would recommend.
:rockit:
If the rich DTC's have returned you can do what I did and go with a 3rd adapter on the downstream oxygen sensors. I had to do this to my Dad's truck because I didn't have my tuning laptop with me.

Also, the 90° non-fouler that @crackerjack1957 is talking about is not for the extra clearance. The 90° turn changes the dynamics of how the exhaust flow enters the tip of the oxygen sensors and it actually lowers the voltage on the downstream sensors

Let us know if the DTC's that are set again are for 1/2 and 2/2 rich .

Is the engine still running normal aka no surging?
 

crackerjack1957

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Update: So I packed the adapters with a good amount of steel wool and it lasted a little longer than previous but my CEL came on again. I haven't read what codes exactly yet but its safe to say it is probably the Rich code on 1/2 and 2/2 again. I think I may have to go with the 90* adapter.
I will read the codes at lunch today to verify.

Where the truck currently stands:

Upstream O2 sensors
are threaded directly into exhaust, no adapters. (Thanks @Fast69Mopar )

Downstream O2 sensors have (2) adapters pre-sensor:
The 1st adapter has a stainless steel screen, this is threaded directly into the exhaust after the CAT.
I packed this adapter full of steel wool and then threaded the second adapter (18mm to 18mm, no screen) into the first.
Sensor is then installed into this 2nd adapter.

@crackerjack1957 I just checked out the link you posted, Would you say the 90* is still the way to go with these mini CAT style adapters? I only ask because the straight style is half the price of the 90*. I don't necessarily need a 90* for clearance, but is it still recommended to eliminate my CEL?

@Wild one If I Run a 90* and use a second adapter below it, should I pack it with steel wool? Is the Steel wool not needed if I use the style @crackerjack1957 posted?

Also, Is there a Stainless Steel Wool? That Picture @crackerjack1957 posted has me thinking I shouldn't use normal steel.

You guys are super helpful. I appreciate every bit of information you are all giving.
Best Forum on the Web for this stuff IMO. 10/10, would recommend.
:rockit:
 

crackerjack1957

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I would think the 90-degree is all you need but @Fast69Mopar knows more than I.
@Wild one too since he made the suggestion.
 
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MartyZ

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If the rich DTC's have returned you can do what I did and go with a 3rd adapter on the downstream oxygen sensors. I had to do this to my Dad's truck because I didn't have my tuning laptop with me.

Also, the 90° non-fouler that @crackerjack1957 is talking about is not for the extra clearance. The 90° turn changes the dynamics of how the exhaust flow enters the tip of the oxygen sensors and it actually lowers the voltage on the downstream sensors

Let us know if the DTC's that are set again are for 1/2 and 2/2 rich .

Is the engine still running normal aka no surging?
Yeah Its still Running Normal. I checked the codes, they Read:
Screenshot_20210816-114919.pngScreenshot_20210816-114925.pngScreenshot_20210816-114930.png

I'm Not sure what the Lean one is about. That is new.
 

Maxx

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For the extension harness, as it pertains to this issue, is actually not causing the OP's problem. The OP had originally installed a pair of non-foulers on his upstream oxygen sensors which was causing the RPM Fluctuation/Surge.
OK tx.
 
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MartyZ

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Update: I purchased a 2 pack of 90s, got a good deal and I realized why upon installation. Drivers side went on great, I left the 2 adapters in and left the steel wool as well. Passenger side broke before I could get it tight. (Cheap laser welding) I attempted to run without the 90 on the passenger. It threw me a rich code as expected. Drivers side threw lean codes but no CEL requested. I'm going to weld up the broken 90 and install it hopefully this weekend.
 
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MartyZ

MartyZ

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Another update in case someone wanders this way in the forums: The issues still exist, it is half due to my OEM gearing with 37s, the other half is the high flow cats throwing rich vapors to the O2 sensors. I will need regearing to fix the sluggish acceleration and a tune to eliminate the codes. The truck still drives great day to day. I just don't race it and we are both happy. Future upgrades will address both of these issues. Until then!
 
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MartyZ

MartyZ

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So you get a custom tune yet ?
I got a quote from Moe's that is considerably generous considering the tuner, tune, and updates included. The tune will address the milder part of my symptoms and is less than half the price of re-gearing. However, I think the re-gearing will make more of an impact on the trucks performance day to day. Both are a little out of my price range currently but I'm hoping to do the re-gearing first and then the tune. I need at least 4:10 gears if my math is correct. But after reading others posts on here I will probably end up with a 5:something since so many people running 37s have recommended them.
 
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