Auxiliary Gas Tank in Bed

[John Jensen]

Quoted directly from the Cornell source:

"(d) Gravity or syphon feed prohibited. A fuel system must not supply fuel by gravity or syphon feed directly to the carburetor or injector."

Nowhere does it say it can't gravity feed into another tank. Just not into the carb or injector.

The only thing I see that REMOTELY resembles gravity feed to another tank being not allowed is the following:

"(5) Fuel withdrawal fittings. Except for diesel fuel tanks, the fittings through which fuel is withdrawn from a fuel tank must be located above the normal level of fuel in the tank when the tank is full."

In which case, it means you can install a pump to fill your stock tank. Nowhere does it say it cannot be electric. The only statement about this fuel transfer is the following:

"(e) Selection control valve location. If a fuel system includes a selection control valve which is operable by the driver to regulate the flow of fuel from two or more fuel tanks, the valve must be installed so that either -

(1) The driver may operate it while watching the roadway and without leaving his/her driving position; or

(2) The driver must stop the vehicle and leave his/her seat in order to operate the valve."

EVEN THEN, there is this tidbit:

"(4) Drains and bottom fittings. (i) Drains or other bottom fittings must not extend more than three-fourths of an inch below the lowest part of the fuel tank or sump.

(ii) Drains or other bottom fittings must be protected against damage from impact.

(iii) If a fuel tank has drains the drain fittings must permit substantially complete drainage of the tank.

(iv) Drains or other bottom fittings must be installed in a flange or spud designed to accommodate it."

Which, while this pushes the definition of 'drain,' means if you had a petcock valve to drain the auxiliary tank that just HAPPENS to drain it into your primary tank, it could be allowable.

I could find NOWHERE in any of these that state you cannot plumb your auxiliary tank into your primary tank's filler neck.

I guess you didn't read this PP:

(d) Gravity or syphon feed prohibited. A fuel system must not supply fuel by gravity or syphon feed directly to the carburetor or injector

It is legal if you use a top feed with a pump

I think this was about a gas aux tank with gravity feed.
If not I'll disapperr.

 

[chri5k]

I guess you didn't read this PP:

(d) Gravity or syphon feed prohibited. A fuel system must not supply fuel by gravity or syphon feed directly to the carburetor or injector

It is legal if you use a top feed with a pump

I think this was about a gas aux tank with gravity feed.
If not I'll disapperr.

Dude, you are still quoting out of the commercial carrier section, Chapter III - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration. The FMCSA rules and regulations apply to the commercial trucking industry. As others have said, those rules and regulations to not apply to personal use of light trucks.

 

[Firetruck41]

I guess you didn't read this PP:

(d) Gravity or syphon feed prohibited. A fuel system must not supply fuel by gravity or syphon feed directly to the carburetor or injector

It is legal if you use a top feed with a pump

I think this was about a gas aux tank with gravity feed.
If not I'll disapperr.

That is saying that you can not siphon/gravity feed directly to carb or injectors, which is not what the OP is doing, so that does not apply to this situation.

 

[John Jensen]

That is saying that you can not siphon/gravity feed directly to carb or injectors, which is not what the OP is doing, so that does not apply to this situation.

That wording is the government's way of saying it all in one sentence. Don't you realize that the truck's gas tank is feeding directly? Gravity feed into that tank is then also feeding directly.

 

[Firetruck41]

That wording is the government's way of saying it all in one sentence. Don't you realize that the truck's gas tank is feeding directly? Gravity feed into that tank is then also feeding directly.

As far as the wording:

(d) Gravity or syphon feed prohibited. A fuel system must not supply fuel by gravity or syphon feed directly to the carburetor or injector

This is the "title" or heading of the section:

(d) Gravity or syphon feed prohibited.

This is the explanation/meaning:

A fuel system must not supply fuel by gravity or syphon feed directly to the carburetor or injector

Its clear throuhgout the document that, that is the manner in which it is written.

As far the fuel tank, no, that is not how the original fuel tank works. It has a fuel pump that pumps fuel out of the tank into the lines that feed the fuel injectors. It is at a higher pressure than "gravity".

 

[chri5k]

That wording is the government's way of saying it all in one sentence. Don't you realize that the truck's gas tank is feeding directly? Gravity feed into that tank is then also feeding directly.

Wow, so even though you are quoting out of regulations that don't apply to the situation you now want to say that indirectly feeding the carb or fuel injectors via the fuel tank is directly feeding the carb or fuel injectors? Do you truly not comprehend or do you just not like to admit you were wrong? (That is a rhetorical question so feel free not to answer.)

 

[AFMoulton]

I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees the error in his ways now.


2018 Ram 2500 6.4L 4x4
Amsoil SS 0W-40

 

[John Jensen]

Okay, ok, already. I concede. You all are correct!

Here's what I found written by a so-called authority:
"49CFR393.65, Fuel Systems: “(d) Gravity or siphon feed prohibited. A fuel system must not supply fuel by gravity or siphon feed directly to the carburetor or injector.” [Ed. Note: misspelled word corrected.]

Note that 393.65(d) title makes a declarative and complete sentence with an adjective, noun and verb i.e. “Gravity …. feed prohibited”. Quoted out of context, it is easy to see how people say that “DOT prohibits gravity feed”. However, this sentence is not a regulation, it’s a paragraph title and it is completely negated by the actual regulation that follows it i.e. “… must not supply fuel by gravity … feed directly to the carburetor or injector.” Since I am supplying fuel via gravity feed to the OEM fuel fill line and not directly to any carburetor or injector, I see no violation of 393.65."

FYI - Here in our Califunny CARB says:
"Auxiliary fuel tanks are subject to California's anti-tampering laws. Installation of auxiliary fuel tanks on emission controlled vehicles is prohibited unless the auxiliary fuel tanks have been evaluated and certified by the Air Resources Board."

There are no gravity feed tanks on their list of approved tanks.

I apologize for being so stubborn. Not usually so. I blame the rioters for ******* me off and my attitude came out on this forum. Again, sorry for that.

 

[Firetruck41]

Okay, ok, already. I concede. You all are correct!...

...I apologize for being so stubborn. Not usually so. I blame the rioters for ******* me off and my attitude came out on this forum. Again, sorry for that.

No problem.

 

[2003F350]

Okay, ok, already. I concede. You all are correct!

Here's what I found written by a so-called authority:
"49CFR393.65, Fuel Systems: “(d) Gravity or siphon feed prohibited. A fuel system must not supply fuel by gravity or siphon feed directly to the carburetor or injector.” [Ed. Note: misspelled word corrected.]

Note that 393.65(d) title makes a declarative and complete sentence with an adjective, noun and verb i.e. “Gravity …. feed prohibited”. Quoted out of context, it is easy to see how people say that “DOT prohibits gravity feed”. However, this sentence is not a regulation, it’s a paragraph title and it is completely negated by the actual regulation that follows it i.e. “… must not supply fuel by gravity … feed directly to the carburetor or injector.” Since I am supplying fuel via gravity feed to the OEM fuel fill line and not directly to any carburetor or injector, I see no violation of 393.65."

FYI - Here in our Califunny CARB says:
"Auxiliary fuel tanks are subject to California's anti-tampering laws. Installation of auxiliary fuel tanks on emission controlled vehicles is prohibited unless the auxiliary fuel tanks have been evaluated and certified by the Air Resources Board."

There are no gravity feed tanks on their list of approved tanks.

I apologize for being so stubborn. Not usually so. I blame the rioters for ******* me off and my attitude came out on this forum. Again, sorry for that.

CARB doesn't like a lot of things, so it's no surprise they don't approve of any gravity tanks. Not really sure how extending your range directly affects how a vehicle runs, personally.

IIRC (and it's very possible I'm wrong), if you're from out of state in CA their rules don't apply unless you are there for an extended period of time (several months).

 

[John Jensen]

CARB doesn't like a lot of things, so it's no surprise they don't approve of any gravity tanks. Not really sure how extending your range directly affects how a vehicle runs, personally.

IIRC (and it's very possible I'm wrong), if you're from out of state in CA their rules don't apply unless you are there for an extended period of time (several months).

I wonder about the states that adopted CARB's emissions rules. Did they also adopt the auxiliary tank portion.

 

[AFMoulton]

I would think any state that adopted CARB would adopt all of it? Just me spitballing.

I know New Mexico does not utilize CARB so I have been good to use what I have in California, as long as my vehicle stays registered in New Mexico. California has an exemption to the time restriction for military members, last I checked.


2018 Ram 2500 6.4L 4x4
Amsoil SS 0W-40

 

[Tumbleweed]

I wish I could've locked this thread around post 26.
Certainly before post 30.

 

[Tsys100718]

Show me an actual law stating that. Not something from a vendor somewhere.

How's this, note Section (5), as I recall you have a one ton dually, probably with a GVWR over 10k
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/393.67

 

[Tumbleweed]

How's this, note Section (5), as I recall you have a one ton dually, probably with a GVWR over 10k
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/393.67

Firstly, I do not have a dually.
Secondly, the quoted article refers to commercial vehicles. Mine is a personal vehicle.
Thirdly, Section (4) Drains and bottom fittings.

(i) Drains or other bottom fittings must not extend more than three-fourths of an inch below the lowest part of the fuel tank or sump.

(ii) Drains or other bottom fittings must be protected against damage from impact.

(iii) If a fuel tank has drains the drain fittings must permit substantially complete drainage of the tank.

(iv) Drains or other bottom fittings must be installed in a flange or spud designed to accommodate it.

An argument could be made that my aux. tank drains into the OEM tank.

 

[18CrewDually]

Here's a company offering tool/fuel tanks for GASOLINE, but do NOT offer them for California sale due to the CARB regulation.
https://www.tankandbarrel.com/gasoline-auxiliary-tanks-gasoline-tank-toolbox-combo-c-264.html

 

[tron67j]

As a fellow traveler on the road, things that people do can have a potential impact on me so that, along with being a former safety inspector and also having family members in the emergency response world, allows me to have an opinion. The original picture of the thread shows what I consider to be an unsafe set up. The first issue is that there is a strap holding the tank down. The second is that there is a connection point that has no breakaway shut off valve, with the flow going immediately out of the tank at the lowest point possible through a small hole cut into the bed. In a accident or sudden stop, things can be thrown around and that tank could bust loose, and if full distribute gallons of flammable liquid all over the place. I'm all for extending range out of vehicle, but it has to be done safely and in a way that is recognized by industry experts as meeting real world situations in a way as to not raise the level of uncertainty when a first responder has to provide assistance. As everyone here has noted that the regulations being cited are for commercial vehicles, which are generally set up for the safety of the public. Following them can help ensure you have a safe set up as well. Drawing from the top of the tank would greatly reduced the possibility of a spill if there is a break in the line. And of note, diesel fuel is less volatile so there is a difference in the risk factors and mitigation requirements.

 

[WESTisTHEbest]

THIS IS VERY SIMPLE-----GAS can NOT be gravity feed, diesel can be. Doesnt matter if its for commercial or personal

if you have a GASOLINE aux tank to refill your main tank installed in your pickup or any vehicle it has to have a gas pickup installed on the top of the tank to draw the gas up and out of the aux tank. also needs a roll over protection. It is against the law to gravity feed gas to your vent or to your filler neck. ATI sells gasoline tanks that are 100% legal for 49 states im sure you can guess the one state that doesnt allow it!

SO you have to PUMP it into your tank, you HAVE to use a fuel pump
CAN NOT BE GRAVITY FEED.


THis is straight from ati website.....since they are in the business im SURE THEY KNOW THE LAW. I reserched for a few months and i wouldnt buy a tank from anyone other than ATI!

The gasoline auxiliary tank connects into the factory fuel system through the filler neck hose (optional 1 inch filler neck adapter available). The gasoline auxiliary tanks install very similar to the diesel ones, however it is not legal to gravity feed out of the bottom of the auxiliary tank with gasoline. By law, the fuel must be pulled from a fitting on TOP of the auxiliary tank. We add a pickup tube to the gas auxiliary tanks with a hose barb on the top of the tank. You must use a pump (low volume universal fuel pump - We recommend the Airtex E84070) with a switch in cab to pull the fuel from the top of the aux tank and pump it into the factory tank via the fill neck hose

Im not here to argue just trying to give the FACTS.....I installed one of ATI tanks years ago into a f150 it is 100% legal if you follow the above rules. SO enough of all the BS here. Feel free to check out ATI and tank and barrel website alot if information there about GAS aux tanks. Someone here mentioned "tank and barrel.com" they are a direct dealer for ATI.

 

[chri5k]

THIS IS VERY SIMPLE-----GAS can NOT be gravity feed, diesel can be. Doesnt matter if its for commercial or personal

if you have a GASOLINE aux tank to refill your main tank installed in your pickup or any vehicle it has to have a gas pickup installed on the top of the tank to draw the gas up and out of the aux tank. also needs a roll over protection. It is against the law to gravity feed gas to your vent or to your filler neck. ATI sells gasoline tanks that are 100% legal for 49 states im sure you can guess the one state that doesnt allow it!

SO you have to PUMP it into your tank, you HAVE to use a fuel pump
CAN NOT BE GRAVITY FEED.


THis is straight from ati website.....since they are in the business im SURE THEY KNOW THE LAW. I reserched for a few months and i wouldnt buy a tank from anyone other than ATI!

The gasoline auxiliary tank connects into the factory fuel system through the filler neck hose (optional 1 inch filler neck adapter available). The gasoline auxiliary tanks install very similar to the diesel ones, however it is not legal to gravity feed out of the bottom of the auxiliary tank with gasoline. By law, the fuel must be pulled from a fitting on TOP of the auxiliary tank. We add a pickup tube to the gas auxiliary tanks with a hose barb on the top of the tank. You must use a pump (low volume universal fuel pump - We recommend the Airtex E84070) with a switch in cab to pull the fuel from the top of the aux tank and pump it into the factory tank via the fill neck hose

Im not here to argue just trying to give the FACTS.....I installed one of ATI tanks years ago into a f150 it is 100% legal if you follow the above rules. SO enough of all the BS here. Feel free to check out ATI and tank and barrel website alot if information there about GAS aux tanks. Someone here mentioned "tank and barrel.com" they are a direct dealer for ATI.

They do know the law, the Federal Motor Carrier Regulations which does not apply in this situation. It has already been established in this thread. Please see the FMCSA page https://www.transportation.gov/tran...g-federal-motor-carrier-safety-administration to better understand what they do and who the regulate. Also, one should try to refrain from calling others posts BS when in fact their post is BS.

Are folks saying he also should comply with Part 395 and log his driving hours? Or Part 396 and maintain his repair and inspection records? No because he is not a Federal Motor Carrier and therefore is not subject to their regulations.