Avoiding the hemi tick?

[A_mod_too_far]

Curious on what you think the "tick" is, if it isn't lifter tick,and don't say manifolds as that's the only other obvious tick. So if it's not lifters or manifolds what do you think is causing the "tick" that the dealers are missing.

I'm on the train with the people that say the tick is from the rocker arm and pushrod. I dont think its physically possible for a lifter that has just ceased and barely even had a chance to score the cam lobe to tick in anyway being under constant pressure from the valve spring. What's ticking? It has to be a tiny tolerance at the push rod and rocker arm, no one has ever explained it any other way that could make sense to me. What would tick as a lifter slides along a cam lobe? Even ceased

I've seen youtube videos of people pull out freshly ceased lifters with the cam still in tact where the engine was making a very audible tick.

 

[Wild one]

I'm on the train with the people that say the tick is from the rocker arm and pushrod. I dont think its physically possible for a lifter that has just ceased and barely even had a chance to score the cam lobe to tick in anyway being under constant pressure from the valve spring. What's ticking? It has to be a tiny tolerance at the push rod and rocker arm, no one has ever explained it any other way that could make sense to me. What would tick as a lifter slides along a cam lobe? Even ceased

I've seen youtube videos of people pull out freshly ceased lifters with the cam still in tact where the engine was making a very audible tick.

Very few pushrods bend or lose length on a hemi,if we were talking about the new GMs then you're onto to something,as GM switched manufactures and they are having pushrod issues,but on a Hemi they usually aren't an issue.That's not saying there isn't the odd one that has had pushrod issues,but the ones that do are very few and far between.Usually a Hemi with a pushrod issue is owner or shop inflicted after they've done the cam,and didn't have the pushrods properly seated. Weak valve springs might be an issue though,as they'll allow a lifter to bounce,but that usually doesn't happen at idle. I think you've been on the GM pages to much,lol

 

[Dginn69]

I'm on the train with the people that say the tick is from the rocker arm and pushrod. I dont think its physically possible for a lifter that has just ceased and barely even had a chance to score the cam lobe to tick in anyway being under constant pressure from the valve spring. What's ticking? It has to be a tiny tolerance at the push rod and rocker arm, no one has ever explained it any other way that could make sense to me. What would tick as a lifter slides along a cam lobe? Even ceased

I've seen youtube videos of people pull out freshly ceased lifters with the cam still in tact where the engine was making a very audible tick.

Very good question. And I agree but being the valve train is self adjusting where would the tolerance at the pushrod/ rocker arm come from? Damaged or out of spec pushrods or maybe bent rocker arms.
I also have wondered what is ticking. I would imagine a ceased lifter sliding on the cam would make more of a grinding sound.
Unless when the cam lobe finally wears enough that would cause the tolerance. But wouldn't there be enough metal floating around the engine by that point to cause other problems?

Also has has anyone complied data on how long after the tick starts will the engine start misfiring? And eventually fail?

 

[MudSkipper]

The 6.2's and 6.4's use piston oil squirters.Now if you were to take that technology and use a similiar squirter but focus it towards spraying oil on the face of the lifters roller and the cam lobe,i would hazard a guess you would see a notable improvement in the life of the cam and lifter

I dont know why you guys think oil is splashed or shot "up" at rollers... there is pressurized oil that surrounds the lifter... it can't go anywhere but the lifter/rollers...

Modern engines/esp race engines dont want oil spash... or slinging.. these lifters are receiving plenty of oil... the problem is the impact and the dirt/debris...

 

[MudSkipper]

As far as I know, only the lifters were updated beyond 2009, and that was around 2016-ish IIRC.

We make assumptions based on what we know FCA has done, and based on our experiments and years of reports. Many reports of failure, without "driver abuse".

final lifter change was made in 2015, everything is using the hellcat lifter now, has been since 2015

Hellcat lifter difference HEMI Camshafts!

I noticed one small difference in the 2015 lifter revision

www.youtube.com

 

[Wild one]

I dont know why you guys think oil is splashed or shot "up" at rollers... there is pressurized oil that surrounds the lifter... it can't go anywhere but the lifter/rollers...

Modern engines/esp race engines dont want oil spash... or slinging.. these lifters are receiving plenty of oil... the problem is the impact and the dirt/debris...

You really don't know how the cams lobe face is lubed do you. If race engines didn't want oil splash on the lifters,don't you think they'd of come up with a windage tray that would fit under the lifters and keep oil splash off the cam lobe and lifters by now.They've only been building race engines for over a 100 years now,and if it was beneficial to keep the lifter and lobe from getting crank slung oil,i'm sure the aftermarket would of come up with a way to adapt a windage tray to go under the cam to keep oil off the cam lobe and lifter face.
Lifters have one of the most highly stressed and poorly lubricated surfaces in an engine. The hardened cam shaft lobe is dragged across the hardened roller face under great pressures from valvesprings and valvetrain inertia. Think of dragging a motorcycle on its side over a speed bump. It's a high-pressure, high-shear wear point, and it is not directly lubricated. Lubrication comes from drops of oil thrown off the crankshaft to, hopefully, splash on the bottom of the cam lobes. And this lubrication is minimal until engine rpm increases.

 

[ramffml]

they'd of come up with a windage tray that would fit under the lifters and keep oil splash off the cam lobe and lifters

To be honest this has confused me a bit about the hemi and the tick issue. I know I've watched more than one Vette owner on YT install a windage tray in their new-ish vette for this exact reason, keep all the splash away.

 

[Wild one]

To be honest this has confused me a bit about the hemi and the tick issue. I know I've watched more than one Vette owner on YT install a windage tray in their new-ish vette for this exact reason, keep all the splash away.

That's a crank windage tray,done to keep the oil in the pan under hard acceleration/braking/cornering etc.,there's also crank scrapers,but none of them remove all the oil from the crank,as the cam lobes still need some oil slung onto to them. This guy actually cuts the lifters apart to show the differances between the newer lifters roller bearings.Worth spending the 10 minutes it takes to watch it.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Black1500Ram]

Seeing a lot of the same information being passed around here as in other threads.

Having just done the lifter job, I was surprised to see:
• 1 lifter on cylinder 3 that was completely seized, with the roller pin starting to walk out
• all other roller lifters ‘appeared’ to be in immaculate condition - free rolling no noticeable visual wear marks
• spalling on some cam lobes but not others
• the lobe of the seized lifter was severely worn but no cel

Also, the tick got progressively louder over 5k miles or so (the time it took for research, parts accumulation etc.)

 

[Burla]

Seeing a lot of the same information being passed around here as in other threads.

Having just done the lifter job, I was surprised to see:
• 1 lifter on cylinder 3 that was completely seized, with the roller pin starting to walk out
• all other roller lifters ‘appeared’ to be in immaculate condition - free rolling no noticeable visual wear marks
• spalling on some cam lobes but not others
• the love of the seized lifter was severely worn but no cel

Also, the tick got progressively louder over 5k miles or so (the time it took for research, parts accumulation etc.)

One theory is in many roller fails the lifter was the issue downstream that led to the roller failing. If that lifter isnt lifting properly just imagine how much pressure is on that cam lob and roller.

 

[Black1500Ram]

One theory is in many roller fails the lifter was the issue downstream that led to the roller failing. If that lifter isnt lifting properly just imagine how much pressure is on that cam lob and roller.

Ok help me think through that. “Lifter isn’t lifting properly”

The cam forces the lifter up in the lifter bore, it’s essentially solid, (even the mds lifters still move their normal pathway inside the cylinder bore, it’s the center of the lifter that’s on the spring that collapses), it in turn forces the pushrod up, which forces the rocker arm up about its pivots point (rocker assembly tube), to push down on the valve against the stress of the valve spring.

So, other than an obstruction how could a lifter not lift properly? Undersprung valve allowed lifter bounce, shifts the pushrod out of the cup on either end?
(I’m being obtuse on purpose cause I honestly don’t know)

 

[Zoe Saldana]

View attachment 504225
First step to hopefully avoiding the hemi tick. Thanks to this site for all the great information.

Not enough LubeGuard - 3 oz/qt needed - or 21 oz in the 5.7L

 

[Burla]

What other then this can possibly damage a lob the way we see it. The lob hits the roller and the lifter lifts, except for our hemi tick, something is preventing the lift, most people believe lack of lubrication could be exacerbated by the lifter being cocked in the bore, but if nothing else we have proved additives can help that. I can't see any way it is the down stroke causing the lob damage. Like I said theory, seams like one is as good as the next since not even the manu can figure it.

 

[RodRamCar]

Not enough LubeGuard - 3 oz/qt needed - or 21 oz in the 5.7L

This is what I literally just put in my Ram except I did less than 21 oz because 7 quarts is right at the full line. If you do 7 quarts +21 oz of LG you're looking at 7 and 2/3 of a quart. I'm not a fan of aerated oil however I know some folks in here say they're running over full with no issues. I did 6.5 quarts of Mobil 1 FS and 500 cc (half qt) approx 17 oz of LG Biotech. Sure love having a measuring cup in cubic centimeters because i'm a dumb redneck. Paired with a Fram XG2 filter and its pretty quiet after she warms up in this cold af winter.

 

[RodRamCar]

No matter what, if you change your own oil with a full synthetic oil that has been proven to protect any engine (such as those with clear evidence of working well in many of the oil strategy threads on here), and you do so sooner than the recommendation by FCA, you stand the best chance at avoiding "the tick" but don't be paranoid about something that is out of your control. Buy the extended warranty with a new Ram if you're dying inside and can't help but be paranoid.

For those with 5.7L like myself:

Either use 7 quarts of 5w-30 or 0w-30 Redline oil or 6.5 quarts of a full synthetic oil and 20 oz of Lubeguard Biotech and a high-quality oil filter and replace at 5k miles or less and you're doing just about as much as you can.

"The Tick" is often confused for just noisy fuel injectors (normal) or normal sounding valvetrain noises. if you're concerned you have noisy injectors, throw a can of Max Clean Royal Purple additive when your tank is near empty and fill up a full tank. It isn't a bad idea every 10,000 miles or so. Maybe that's overkill but it's what I do.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

This is what I literally just put in my Ram except I did less than 21 oz because 7 quarts is right at the full line. If you do 7 quarts +21 oz of LG you're looking at 7 and 2/3 of a quart. I'm not a fan of aerated oil however I know some folks in here say they're running over full with no issues. I did 6.5 quarts of Mobil 1 FS and 500 cc (half qt) approx 17 oz of LG Biotech. Sure love having a measuring cup in cubic centimeters because i'm a dumb redneck. Paired with a Fram XG2 filter and its pretty quiet after she warms up in this cold af winter.

The Qt bottle has OZ measurements on the side.

 

[RodRamCar]

The Qt bottle has OZ measurements on the side.

Like i said, i'm a dumb redneck or I overthink **** lol. plus I can't see that well and my clear 1000 cc cup is just habit. I never even checked for a fluid level window on the side.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

No matter what, if you change your own oil with a full synthetic oil that has been proven to protect any engine (such as those with clear evidence of working well in many of the oil strategy threads on here), and you do so sooner than the recommendation by FCA, you stand the best chance at avoiding "the tick" but don't be paranoid about something that is out of your control. Buy the extended warranty with a new Ram if you're dying inside and can't help but be paranoid.

For those with 5.7L like myself:

Either use 7 quarts of 5w-30 or 0w-30 Redline oil or 6.5 quarts of a full synthetic oil of choice with 17 oz (500 cc) of Lubeguard Biotech and a high-quality oil filter and replace at 5k miles or less and you're doing just about as much as you can.

"The Tick" is often confused for just noisy fuel injectors (normal) or normal sounding valvetrain noises. if you're concerned you have noisy injectors, throw a can of Max Clean Royal Purple additive when your tank is near empty and fill up a full tank. It isn't a bad idea every 10,000 miles or so. Maybe that's overkill but it's what I do.

Why is this so hard your truck takes 7qts normally.

Put in 6.5 qts and 20oz of Lubegard; NOT 17

 

[Zoe Saldana]

Like i said, i'm a dumb redneck or I overthink **** lol. plus I can't see that well and my clear 1000 cc cup is just habit. I never even checked for a fluid level window on the side.

"Underthink" you didn't put in enough Lubegard as per the directions.

 

[RodRamCar]

Lmao, go back and reread my post. 6.5 qts WITH 500 cc of LG. 500 cc = approx .5 qt. Unless I'm mistaken, and I spelled it out pretty simply, that equals 7 quarts.

Why is this so hard your truck takes 7qts normally.

Put in 6.5 qts and 20oz of Lubegard; NOT 17