Bad Gas

[Poolmonkey]

The gas sits in my boat for years with Stabil in it.

 

[Mister Luck]

This shouldn't be political. It doesn't matter what us truck guys want, technology is heading towards cleaner, stronger and better vehicles, be they gas or electric. Just turns out it seems (right now) electric is going to be the technology that'll get us there (or maybe hydrogen as a dark horse). The new gen electrics can recharge to 80% in 15 min. If they can get over the weight penalty of electrics, it'll be a no-brainer. Then the ethonal debate will be just a footnote in history. They're installing a few MAJOR solar/wind systems in our state and Tx is full of them (it's a lot cheaper energy nowadays). In x number of yrs gas cars will go the way they're going to go. The movement looks like it will be driven by young buyers if nothing else. Ask any up-and-coming 'Zoomer' if they want a gas or electric car and you get a clear direction the way the market is going to go, weather it takes 10 or 15 yrs. Car companies know this. Look at their 10yr plans.

A sales guy at the local Ford dealer told me the other day, they've had tons of interest in the Ford Lightening. Not a perfect truck, but it's a major leap forward. Even they were surprised how much buzz it's created. And who knows, maybe the new hydrogen tech will mature faster. There was a time guys weren't going to give up their horses for he!! or high water! LOL. Guess what, they did and they were happy to do so and didnt look back.

I remember when I got my first smart phone (early adopter here). All my friends teased me what a waste it was, they were no good, and a bunch of reasons they'd fail and their flip phone was better. I remember the conversation like it was yesterday. I told them in 3-4 yrs all phones would be smart phones. They all burst out laughing, like spit their beers out..kind of laugh. Guess what, none of them held onto their flip phones, ha ha. Just like very few people don't drive classic cars as DD's. Once performance is better/cleaner/cheaper/stronger, people will naturally go that direction. We're not there yet, but you can see the writing on the wall.

Diesels will probably live on for quite a while bc of heavy equipment, machinery, tractors, ease of manufacture and long shelf life, etc. Once a certain percentage of vehicles go electric the tippng point will be quick (just like smart phones) ..and gas will eventually be expensive to get (another disincentive to stick with gasoline vehicles). But we aren't there yet. Could take a while. It's going to suck for me ...mr king of gas guzzlers! ha ha

At that point in time people will look back and say, "Man, I can't believe we used to drive those old smelly, unreliable vehicles" ...ha ha. Well, except for those guys who still use flip phones, and ride their horse and buggy to town! lol

The misinformation is making the electric vehicle technology bubble political
the reason gasoline has been used for as many years as it has is not because of social media opinions but the reasons because there is not a technological replacement for the energy that petroleum chemicals can produce that is more affordable or economical, oil and petrochemicals are still fought over to supply heavy industries and international militaries but because the source of petrochemical can be manipulated and controlled this is why other energy sources are being marketed and developed.
If you know anything about political and industrial history of electric or alternative vehicles you’d probably would rather have an steam electro turbine than a poisoned lithium storage crate.

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

I'll add to this I have been using (Star Tron) Enzyme Concentrate, 32oz treats 512 gallons of gas I get it on amazon, I've been using this treatment for years and have never had problems due to bad fuel.

 

[Moparfanatic21]

Oh man... can we stop this BS already?

You eat dairy and meat, your meat and dairy eats corn. Specifically it eats the high protien, high vitamin, easy to store, easy to transport, easy to dispense leftovers from removing all the sugar from corn.

If you want to pay a whole lot more for meat and eggs and dairy, by all means stop finding a good use for all that sugar and start feeding animals fast-rotting, more difficult to distribute whole grain. Right now we turn that sugar into fuel which burns cleaner than petroleum and doesn't contribute nearly as much to climate change because it's a short cycle hydrocarbon, not pulling more carbon out of the ground.

Come on man you're smarter than this.

Just saying I personally don't care about climate change. You lose mpg on e85

 

[kurek]

Just saying I personally don't care about climate change. You lose mpg on e85

Nobody in all of history no matter how closely their personal identity is invested the manufactured political template they were given by their favorite TV "news" programming has disputed the BTU content of alcohol vs. petroleum gasoline.

The thing that people seem not to understand is that you lose MPG with a supercharger too, for the same reason but nobody who hates E85 hates superchargers.

Chemically - and for the purpose of combustion - the difference between an ethanol molecule and a gasoline molecule is that ethanol contains an oxygen atom and a petroleum molecule does not contain any oxygen atoms.

This is why the stoichiometric ratio for ethanol is much lower than the stoichiometric ratio for petroleum. Stoichiometric means the ideal air to fuel ratio for complete combustion where every molecule that shows up to explode has a partner and (pretty much) all of them get to explode. You don't need as much air per unit of fuel with alcohol because the alcohol brought a little of its own to the party.

When you are pumping oxygen into the cylinders with a supercharger you need to put a whole lot more nitrogen into the cylinder too because air is 80% nitrogen. That nitrogen takes effort to compress, contains heat energy which concentrates into temperature when compressed, the space that the nitrogen takes up inside the combustion chamber means your compression ratio becomes more critical when adding boost.. this added temperature and extra inert nitrogen sitting in the combustion chamber are why you need high octane fuel when running boost, because otherwise you'd start dieseling and knocking and making less power.

Alcohol brings oxygen into the combustion chamber without having to drag it past the air filter or past the throttle body or through the intake manifold. It also doesn't bring with it as much inert nitrogen that's just along for the ride absorbing BTU's from combustion and having to get pushed out through the muffler. E10 fuel produces 4% less exhaust mass per BTU for this reason - that means just on regular E10 fuel your exhaust flows 4% better than on pure petroleum. Nobody talks about that because nobody stayed awake in math class I guess.

In terms of combustible content a gallon of E85 is roughly like 3 quarts of petroleum with 1 quart of liquid oxygen mixed in. For every horsepower your engine makes you're burning about the same total mass of hydrogen, carbon and oxygen whether you burn gasoline or ethanol but when you're burning pure gasoline you get all the oxygen financially for free, it all comes in through the air filter. When you burn ethanol you're paying money for a little bit of the oxygen. You still need more from the air but not as much.

The fact that your engine doesn't need to pump as much inert nitrogen through itself per horsepower is why you can make more horsepower from the same displacement engine on alcohol than you can with pure petroleum. This is why so many motorsports rely on alcohol fuel and why cars built to deliberately take advantage of it like the Koenigsegg Jesko make dramatically more power on a fuel with fewer BTU's per unit of measure.

You may all now resume your various talking points from whoever's paid to parrot them for the shareholders these days.

 

[Moparfanatic21]

Nobody in all of history no matter how closely their personal identity is invested the manufactured political template they were given by their favorite TV "news" programming has disputed the BTU content of alcohol vs. petroleum gasoline.

The thing that people seem not to understand is that you lose MPG with a supercharger too, for the same reason but nobody who hates E85 hates superchargers.

Chemically - and for the purpose of combustion - the difference between an ethanol molecule and a gasoline molecule is that ethanol contains an oxygen atom and a petroleum molecule does not contain any oxygen atoms.

This is why the stoichiometric ratio for ethanol is much lower than the stoichiometric ratio for petroleum. Stoichiometric means the ideal air to fuel ratio for complete combustion where every molecule that shows up to explode has a partner and (pretty much) all of them get to explode. You don't need as much air per unit of fuel with alcohol because the alcohol brought a little of its own to the party.

When you are pumping oxygen into the cylinders with a supercharger you need to put a whole lot more nitrogen into the cylinder too because air is 80% nitrogen. That nitrogen takes effort to compress, contains heat energy which concentrates into temperature when compressed, the space that the nitrogen takes up inside the combustion chamber means your compression ratio becomes more critical when adding boost.. this added temperature and extra inert nitrogen sitting in the combustion chamber are why you need high octane fuel when running boost, because otherwise you'd start dieseling and knocking and making less power.

Alcohol brings oxygen into the combustion chamber without having to drag it past the air filter or past the throttle body or through the intake manifold. It also doesn't bring with it as much inert nitrogen that's just along for the ride absorbing BTU's from combustion and having to get pushed out through the muffler. E10 fuel produces 4% less exhaust mass per BTU for this reason - that means just on regular E10 fuel your exhaust flows 4% better than on pure petroleum. Nobody talks about that because nobody stayed awake in math class I guess.

In terms of combustible content a gallon of E85 is roughly like 3 quarts of petroleum with 1 quart of liquid oxygen mixed in. For every horsepower your engine makes you're burning about the same total mass of hydrogen, carbon and oxygen whether you burn gasoline or ethanol but when you're burning pure gasoline you get all the oxygen financially for free, it all comes in through the air filter. When you burn ethanol you're paying money for a little bit of the oxygen. You still need more from the air but not as much.

The fact that your engine doesn't need to pump as much inert nitrogen through itself per horsepower is why you can make more horsepower from the same displacement engine on alcohol than you can with pure petroleum. This is why so many motorsports rely on alcohol fuel and why cars built to deliberately take advantage of it like the Koenigsegg Jesko make dramatically more power on a fuel with fewer BTU's per unit of measure.

You may all now resume your various talking points from whoever's paid to parrot them for the shareholders these days.

In not against it and I may try it on my next fill up. Gas is almost 4.75 q gallon where I'm at where e85 is only 2.43. So even if I got 3/4 of the mileage on e85 I would be ahead. I just read it can screw up things if you haven't used it in a while (which I think is false)

 

[kurek]

If you run e85 in a non flex fuel engine that hasn't been tuned for it & doesn't have enough injector bandwidth, you'll run lean and get a check engine light for that and over a long term the higher exhaust temps from running lean may damage your oxygen sensors.

That's not because of the ethanol exactly but because the engine can only trim +25% or so on fuel enrichment and it needs to trim more than that for e85.

If it was available where I live I would fill up on E30 every tank but there's nothing over e10 here

 

[GTyankee]

Electric vehicles are powered by Coal

Cost of gas is still climbing, there is only 1 gas station still selling gas for $2.99

Over 40% of our drill rigs have shut down off the coast

They can't off load the ships that are full of crude oil & all the other products that we buy daily

Gas is likely going to cost close to $5.00 per gallon in way too many places

It is a lucky thing i guess that i have been ill, i only have to fill my fuel tank about once a month

 

[HEMIMANN]

If you run e85 in a non flex fuel engine that hasn't been tuned for it & doesn't have enough injector bandwidth, you'll run lean and get a check engine light for that and over a long term the higher exhaust temps from running lean may damage your oxygen sensors.

That's not because of the ethanol exactly but because the engine can only trim +25% or so on fuel enrichment and it needs to trim more than that for e85.

If it was available where I live I would fill up on E30 every tank but there's nothing over e10 here

Ethanol

Ethanol is a renewable, domestically produced alcohol fuel that can help reduce oil dependence and greenhouse gas emissions.

www.fueleconomy.gov

"Ethanol contains about one-third less energy than gasoline. So, vehicles will typically go 3% to 4% fewer miles per gallon on E10 and 4% to 5% fewer on E15 than on 100% gasoline.

Due to ethanol's lower energy content, FFVs operating on E85 get roughly 15% to 27% fewer miles per gallon than when operating on regular gasoline, depending on the ethanol content. Regular gasoline typically contains about 10% ethanol."

 

[kurek]

Look two posts up, guy.

 

[Biggg Doggg]

Original poster please look into K100 fuel treatment from Kinetic Fuel Technologies. Removes water in fuel, revitalizes stale fuel, 2 year stabilizer and conditions fuel. Has done some amazing stuff for me in the past with old fuel in my boat. Better than Seafoam in my opionion. PM me if you can't locate any where you live. I am in AB as well.

 

[SYKRAMMAN]

At some point in everyone's life it becomes necessary to grow up and recognize there's more to all this than throwing rocks at "the other side"
I don't give one single flying **** about Al Gore.
But I also didn't consume ethanol in utero. The science is very much settled on this, the economic impact is real. You gotta be really, and I mean really obtuse to still be in denial about the importance of climate change. I don't care if you wear a red hat, I don't care if you drive a 4x4 and shoot guns guess what you'll find me at the range too. Not everything needs to be a dang political wedge. We're adults here, at least you're supposed to be if you got a drivers license.

Growth at Risk From Climate Change

The Federal Reserve Board of Governors in Washington DC.

www.federalreserve.gov

Lmao, that's REALLY rich. The powers that be don't give a flying about "climate change", so much so that "they" change the term every ten years to fool the new generations into giving up their ways, it's all bs from the jump because I've heard the same old song and dance for decades and NOTHING changes except who gets richer than rich, so!

 

[GTyankee]

I remember New Jersey, i lived in Lodi as a child
I still remember the stink of the oil refinery.

Now i have to drive across I-20 in Texas to smell it

I can just imagine those areas smelling like corn fields at harvest time