Blackstone - used oil analysis

[Sasquatchtdg]

great report. What stands out is how similar the oil formula was across the board, that is what we like to see. Also, how many redline runs have you had? Wear coming down at least with copper and that is also what we tend to see, the longer you run redline the better the wear gets. You say you drove it a little harder this time as opposed to last? or pretty equal? You see you had more shear with viscosity this run over last, plus aluminum is up a notch, my guess is the oil worked harder this time, which when you look at wear as a whole, is pretty impressive imo. Ins up a notch as well, and moly down a bit.

Total guess here and I bet some people would disagree with it, but my guess it is possible you worked the engine harder so maybe some more moly plated, thus it was out of the oil. I say this not so much that moly level dropped a bit, but everything else alum, ins, visc, etc. Moly plates under pressure, pressure are higher when engine works harder, it is the science. This is one of those reports where we can't wait to see what happens next, I hope you get another, if not cool anyhow thanks for posting looking good man.

The interval, seams like 10k is perfect for you, 2.4 tbn is a great time ti change oil. I wouldn't want to go much further, if you do so consider adding bgmoa late in the interval for some tbn insurance.

You are correct, the HEMI put in a little extra, this run had a week long trip to Tennessee involved with snowy, icy, wet weather. A LOT of engine braking. Also a week long trip to Orlando.

 

[ramffml]

So first run was redline 5w30 and second was 5w20 redline?

Yes, I wanted to run 5w-30 the second time too but couldn't find it on sale in stores so picked up /20 instead.

I am running /30 right now again though, so after this summer I'll have another report to post here.

 

[Burla]

My first 2 reports, finally got into the site and was able to download them with redacted personal info.

Kinda concerned about the copper, anyone know what that might be from? I think buried in all these threads somewhere Burla said it's common when switching to Redline and that after a bit it settles down. But the second report was a very small run/OCI, and it actually has more copper in it per KM than the first report.

Sorry I missed this post, thanks for posting. Blackstone has an import without info that makes it easy to see as you wont have to download to see report, but you need to photo host it.

The report reads on two runs first one 12,000 miles and the second one 5k miles, the wear read like this...

Aluminum 3 versus 2
Iron 30 versus 15
Copper 94 versus 62

This is one of the most consequential reports we have seen, I believe we do have one or two others that also verify this info. Now, we know redline both encourages wear and helps prevent it, that is the science of running high zinc which allows for "good" wear. This will taper off as sharp edges are smoothed and the engine ages. Now, another feature if this is a young engine, so it is very likely these wear numbers will drop like a rock moving forward.

What is consequential is we would expect that the second run of redline to have wear numbers drop, but they didn't, they didnt increase persay, but they didn't follow the trend of what we see. Reason? Well the first run was 5w30, and the second run was 5w20. A side note, this engine seams to be shreading the oil as his 5w30 run saw a full point of viscosity lost. This could be a young engine thing, but it also can be the tolerances of this engine, time will answer that if you keep getting uoa's, which I would recommend in this case. I would say it is very possible, even likely, that 5w20 was creating more wear because it wasn't cushioning as much as the 5w30, and in this engine it shows. I tell ya the one thing I would like to know is if we took a good sample size of trucks to do uoa's on both 5w30 to 5w20 and back again, to be able to read those results and actually see what we know anyhow, that 5w20 is too thin for this application.

Anyhow, I would not be concerned at this point, I fully expect if you keep getting uoa's that when this truck hits 75k miles your wear will be very similar to other hemi's uoa's. It isn't that far off normal hemi wear imo, and if it were my truck I would be running 5w30 redline til I figured it out. One other option at some point may be 0w40 PUP. Question, does/did this truck have any hemi tick? Those were the first runs with redline oil?

 

[Burla]

One great thing about that engine is not much acid build up, one tbn reading was 3 and the other was 4.9, you could chose to run it longer, but I would wait til wear drops.

 

[turkeybird56]

Just a great example here, thanks for posting. Sometimes it is as simple as a little thicker oil providing better protection. A little more zinc a little more moly, but my guess is the viscosity provides a bit more protection. One report doesn't make it a "fact", but going to 5w30 didn't raise wear that is for sure. If you really wanted to test it, you can always try 5w20 again, lol. But in the end you found a great oil and we don't really need to know.

BOIRD thinking of Fujomoto and going from 5-20 to 5W 30. Just seems it is getting Hotter and Hotter here in TX, might need slightly higher end protection. But if I do all that, prob do a relocate for Filter if I start doing changes, LOL... I hate getting a bath in oil, even a lil bit. Wanna have fun: Lay on the ground and change oil on a Trike (Honda), since I have no way to get 2300 lbs in the air, it is a exercise in futility, cussing, but does get done, LOL. I run MOBIL 1 AT MC OIL, no API, because the oil is a slush: Does Trans and Engine, not want to wear out clutches.

ADDED: WIll go to premium filter and good 5-30 when/if I get in the bizness of changing again. I find it is getting harder to crawl unda there, must be my crusty tail feathers.

 

[turkeybird56]

You are correct, the HEMI put in a little extra, this run had a week long trip to Tennessee involved with snowy, icy, wet weather. A LOT of engine braking. Also a week long trip to Orlando.

Snowing? U 10,000 feet up? LOL??? 95 here, with heat index 105, brrrr, cold for TX. Like seeing yer reports, helps to inform this casual BOIRD to help make informed choices.

 

[Burla]

BOIRD thinking of Fujomoto and going from 5-20 to 5W 30. Just seems it is getting Hotter and Hotter here in TX, might need slightly higher end protection. But if I do all that, prob do a relocate for Filter if I start doing changes, LOL... I hate getting a bath in oil, even a lil bit. Wanna have fun: Lay on the ground and change oil on a Trike (Honda), since I have no way to get 2300 lbs in the air, it is a exercise in futility, cussing, but does get done, LOL. I run MOBIL 1 AT MC OIL, no API, because the oil is a slush: Does Trans and Engine, not want to wear out clutches.

ADDED: WIll go to premium filter and good 5-30 when/if I get in the bizness of changing again. I find it is getting harder to crawl unda there, must be my crusty tail feathers.

lol amen brother, I hope ya use some rhino ramps. I'm a tall buzzard plus old and pot bellied, so yeah it isn't like sitting under a elm having a picnic. those ramps do help quite a bit.

 

[ramffml]

Sorry I missed this post, thanks for posting. Blackstone has an import without info that makes it easy to see as you wont have to download to see report, but you need to photo host it.

The report reads on two runs first one 12,000 miles and the second one 5k miles, the wear read like this...

Aluminum 3 versus 2
Iron 30 versus 15
Copper 94 versus 62

This is one of the most consequential reports we have seen, I believe we do have one or two others that also verify this info. Now, we know redline both encourages wear and helps prevent it, that is the science of running high zinc which allows for "good" wear. This will taper off as sharp edges are smoothed and the engine ages. Now, another feature if this is a young engine, so it is very likely these wear numbers will drop like a rock moving forward.

What is consequential is we would expect that the second run of redline to have wear numbers drop, but they didn't, they didnt increase persay, but they didn't follow the trend of what we see. Reason? Well the first run was 5w30, and the second run was 5w20. A side note, this engine seams to be shreading the oil as his 5w30 run saw a full point of viscosity lost. This could be a young engine thing, but it also can be the tolerances of this engine, time will answer that if you keep getting uoa's, which I would recommend in this case. I would say it is very possible, even likely, that 5w20 was creating more wear because it wasn't cushioning as much as the 5w30, and in this engine it shows. I tell ya the one thing I would like to know is if we took a good sample size of trucks to do uoa's on both 5w30 to 5w20 and back again, to be able to read those results and actually see what we know anyhow, that 5w20 is too thin for this application.

Anyhow, I would not be concerned at this point, I fully expect if you keep getting uoa's that when this truck hits 75k miles your wear will be very similar to other hemi's uoa's. It isn't that far off normal hemi wear imo, and if it were my truck I would be running 5w30 redline til I figured it out. One other option at some point may be 0w40 PUP. Question, does/did this truck have any hemi tick? Those were the first runs with redline oil?

Thanks Burla, I really appreciate the feedback there. As for the tick, I'm very happy with how the engine sounds when hot. When it's a cold start, there is some noise coming from the engine that to me sounds like either tick or piston slap and I'm not sure what it is. I'm leaning towards piston slap as it seems to be a "lower" or "deeper" sound than a tick which is usually a higher pitch/frequency? So more of a knocking sound than a ticking sound though I'm far from an expert.

I will say that cold starts have gotten quieter again since going back to 5w-30, however I did change the oil right when spring heated up here in Ontario so the ambiant temperature is always 80+ degrees outside so is it the oil or the temperature that has made the noise quieter? Dunno, I suspect we'll find out when it gets cold outside again.

But again, when the engine is hot it sounds smooth and quiet. Just a cold start I hear something, and only when idling, when I rev it slightly right after a cold start the sound is much much less noticable again until the RPMs drop and/or the temp increases.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I'd volunteer for 5W-30, 0W-30, 5W-40 UOA in my 6.4 Hemi, but no way am I putting in 5W-20 to "see how much wear it causes"!!! lol

 

[Burla]

I'd volunteer for 5W-30, 0W-30, 5W-40 UOA in my 6.4 Hemi, but no way am I putting in 5W-20 to "see how much wear it causes"!!! lol

lol right?

I know it is anecdotal evidence the few we have about difference in wear numbers 5w20 and 5w30 in the same engine a run apart, but it is interesting the wear numbers always favor the 5w30. Going back to the recent spreedsheet posted, there is an argument for running 5w20 as this formula has the least vii's then anything. Where the opportunity exists without sacrifice, is cold climates that have piston slap 5w20 is worth a shot. Because imo avoiding hemi tick and/or piston slap should be a goal.

If you can do this running 5w30 cool, but it is a fact sometimes guys can't, sometimes 5w30 redline will kill those ticks but leave those trucks susceptible to cold piston slap. With that spreedsheet as a guide, I'm saying 5w20 over 0w30 would be desirable "if" you didn't have hemi tick on that 5w20. It is a choice, choose a formula that has nearly 10% of the formula being vii's, or perhaps a little more wear numbers but have very few vii's. I'd still probably opt for 0w30 in that situation, but I probably could be talked out of it as well. I'm not really a proponent of mixing persay, but I wonder if in that situation if mixing 5w30 redline with 5w20 redline wouldn't be better then running 0w30, of course if" the spreedsheet was correct, and I'm not saying it is. Glad I live i a warm state, one decision I wouldn't have to make, but mixing 4 quarts 5w20, and 3 quarts 5w30 would likely give you the same cold performance of 0w30 redline w/o the heavy vii's?

 

[turkeybird56]

lol amen brother, I hope ya use some rhino ramps. I'm a tall buzzard plus old and pot bellied, so yeah it isn't like sitting under a elm having a picnic. those ramps do help quite a bit.

NAH, it is a Trike, Honda Motor Trike actually, no way I can use ramps. Just too much weight pushing. If I back up rear tires, pan too tilted, run front tire up pan tilted, no way to drain all of block and trans. Honda have them designed that the Bike has to be basically level (straight up), LOL. So on all 3 wheels, slide small pan under engine frame guide/skid plate and do the weird bends and contortions etc to get hands in there to get filter and plug out. Of course, every time you change oil on Honda, You R supposed to put on new washer for bolt, why I buy 10 at a time, LOL.

ADDED:: Have 2 reg vehicle ramps. But I just leave that puppy on the garage floor and turn into a gymnast.

CAVEAT: Wat PPL not know, tho U may, Motor Trike rear complete kit with a PTO full axle, etc, just that complete rear/trike part alone is over 1,200 lbs, plus bike, fluids, etc, 2200-2300 sitting there, LOL.

 

[turkeybird56]

lol right?

I know it is anecdotal evidence the few we have about difference in wear numbers 5w20 and 5w30 in the same engine a run apart, but it is interesting the wear numbers always favor the 5w30. Going back to the recent spreedsheet posted, there is an argument for running 5w20 as this formula has the least vii's then anything. Where the opportunity exists without sacrifice, is cold climates that have piston slap 5w20 is worth a shot. Because imo avoiding hemi tick and/or piston slap should be a goal.

If you can do this running 5w30 cool, but it is a fact sometimes guys can't, sometimes 5w30 redline will kill those ticks but leave those trucks susceptible to cold piston slap. With that spreedsheet as a guide, I'm saying 5w20 over 0w30 would be desirable "if" you didn't have hemi tick on that 5w20. It is a choice, choose a formula that has nearly 10% of the formula being vii's, or perhaps a little more wear numbers but have very few vii's. I'd still probably opt for 0w30 in that situation, but I probably could be talked out of it as well. I'm not really a proponent of mixing persay, but I wonder if in that situation if mixing 5w30 redline with 5w20 redline wouldn't be better then running 0w30, of course if" the spreedsheet was correct, and I'm not saying it is. Glad I live i a warm state, one decision I wouldn't have to make, but mixing 4 quarts 5w20, and 3 quarts 5w30 would likely give you the same cold performance of 0w30 redline w/o the heavy vii's?

NEVA had to worry about "cold":, till this past February when temps were -1 to -5 for 2 days at night, in the middle of TX, go figure, LOL... Thought I was back in the USAF at a Northern Tier Base. (and I sure as heck not used to frigid temps or that cold ne more. Heck, I almost pulled out my shorty Parka, I did Pull out a pair of mukluks, to wear. My last pair from 1980), lol.

 

[tidefan1967]

NEVA had to worry about "cold":, till this past February when temps were -1 to -5 for 2 days at night, in the middle of TX, go figure, LOL... Thought I was back in the USAF at a Northern Tier Base. (and I sure as heck not used to frigid temps or that cold ne more. Heck, I almost pulled out my shorty Parka, I did Pull out a pair of mukluks, to wear. My last pair from 1980), lol.


View attachment 250414

Yep know what you mean, back in the day when my dad was in the USAF, at re-enlistment time it was going to be Minot AFB or get out. Needless to say thank GOD he didn’t re-enlist!

 

[canadiankodiak700]

NEVA had to worry about "cold":, till this past February when temps were -1 to -5 for 2 days at night, in the middle of TX, go figure, LOL... Thought I was back in the USAF at a Northern Tier Base. (and I sure as heck not used to frigid temps or that cold ne more. Heck, I almost pulled out my shorty Parka, I did Pull out a pair of mukluks, to wear. My last pair from 1980), lol.


View attachment 250414

Lol. This always makes me laugh. How the human body gets used to certain temperatures. You guys in Texas rarely see temps that low, yet here in Northern Ontario, that -2f is -19c, we see that about 4 months of the year. In litterly in sneakers, thin pants, and a hoody in that weather, often going outside in a Tshirts for 10 or 15 min, yeah it's chilly, but it's normal.
Flip side though, heat.... I'm sweating my Balzac off at 27c...80f, where that's basically nothing to you guys... 100f...37c.... Those days are murder.. No thank you. Lol

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

 

[tidefan1967]

Lol. This always makes me laugh. How the human body gets used to certain temperatures. You guys in Texas rarely see temps that low, yet here in Northern Ontario, that -2f is -19c, we see that about 4 months of the year. In litterly in sneakers, thin pants, and a hoody in that weather, often going outside in a Tshirts for 10 or 15 min, yeah it's chilly, but it's normal.
Flip side though, heat.... I'm sweating my Balzac off at 27c...80f, where that's basically nothing to you guys... 100f...37c.... Those days are murder.. No thank you. Lol

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

80F is a cool day down here, it’s the humidity that kills ya!

 

[turkeybird56]

Yep know what you mean, back in the day when my dad was in the USAF, at re-enlistment time it was going to be Minot AFB or get out. Needless to say thank GOD he didn’t re-enlist!

Why not Minot, Freezing the reason LOL. I still remember that after all these years. I was an SP, did not want to end up in a shack at a LCF, LOL. So instead, stayed in Acft, so got to "walk" the various lines, LOL, till the USAF got progressive in the late 70's and started electronic stuff. I actually went back to Lackyland and got the training ref towers and such, the Things U Remember.

Lol. This always makes me laugh. How the human body gets used to certain temperatures. You guys in Texas rarely see temps that low, yet here in Northern Ontario, that -2f is -19c, we see that about 4 months of the year. In litterly in sneakers, thin pants, and a hoody in that weather, often going outside in a Tshirts for 10 or 15 min, yeah it's chilly, but it's normal.
Flip side though, heat.... I'm sweating my Balzac off at 27c...80f, where that's basically nothing to you guys... 100f...37c.... Those days are murder.. No thank you. Lol

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

There is no friggin way I could do those temps now. Back in my USAF years on the flightline at -30 degrees and colder. I remember one shift it was -50 sumthin with windchill of -76, OMFG. And here I am, all bundled up, outside. "walking" acft. Now it gets into 40's, brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, my teeth sound like a tap shoe dance, hee hee.

 

[turkeybird56]

80F is a cool day down here, it’s the humidity that kills ya!

I have a dang good friend near Charleston building a home on John's Island.

 

[turkeybird56]

I'd volunteer for 5W-30, 0W-30, 5W-40 UOA in my 6.4 Hemi, but no way am I putting in 5W-20 to "see how much wear it causes"!!! lol

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, n o adventure? What dealer runs, but next time he will be told 5W30 and a better filter, though stock Mopar Filters are fine, of course, not hold a candle to a RP.

 

[tidefan1967]

I have a dang good friend near Charleston building a home on John's Island.

They must be well off! I can’t afford anything on that side of the tracks. All the rich Northerners that have moved to SC in recent years have pushed property values thru the roof.

If anything I would love to get much further inland and avoid dealing with hurricane season every year. I’m thinking Oklahoma might be a nice quiet place to retire to.

 

[Sasquatchtdg]

Snowing? U 10,000 feet up? LOL??? 95 here, with heat index 105, brrrr, cold for TX. Like seeing yer reports, helps to inform this casual BOIRD to help make informed choices.

That was our Gatlinburg trip in January. Home is lower coastal South Carolina. We get snow once or twice a decade it seems.