Blackstone - used oil analysis

[Dannyn_01]

Just over 12K Miles running Amsoil SS 5W20 and SRT Filter.
The filter was shot after this run, I’ve since switched to the RP20-820. Not sure how long I should run the next OCI. What would you guys do here? Keep running the oil longer or keep it consistent?

 

[Burla]

Just over 12K Miles running Amsoil SS 5W20 and SRT Filter.
The filter was shot after this run, I’ve since switched to the RP20-820. Not sure how long I should run the next OCI. What would you guys do here? Keep running the oil longer or keep it consistent? View attachment 473878

looks incredible, I agree with blackstone with over 3 tbn and that low wear, you could extend. One well running hemi and one great oil paired up right there. It is nice when hemi'***** 100k, smooth sailing from here that engine!

I don't think that is 20 weight, did you forget you used 5w30? If you are sure you used 20 weight, I might not extend oci, just keep it the same.

 

[ramffml]

Latest report from Blackstone. Redline 5w-30 with RP 10-48. Everything there is in KM's, so doing the conversion there is about 6700 miles on the oil.

For the winter and the oil I'm running right now, I decided to test RL 0w-30 with a RP 20-820. I'm not too happy with this setup, I think I'm definitely hearing much more (light) dry lifter tick on a cold start. It's not that very nasty tick some people sometimes get, but it's light and reminds me of how bad the factory oil/filter sounded on a dry start. Very sure the 5w-30 I had before (report below) was dead silent for the most part.

This was a surprise, with the switch to 0w-30 I was hoping to reduce a light knocking noise I hear when engine is idling at cold but in addition to not fixing that noise, I now also hear the light lifter tick for about 2 to 3 seconds and then instantly it goes away (so it's not a permanent "hemi tick").

Anyway, I'm going to run the 0w-30 until about February and then switch back to 5w-30 and see if the light lifter tick goes away again.

 

[Burla]

You wear levels have dropped like a rock from even earlier this year, I would like to see the 0w30 run, but yes follow what the engine tells you with it's knocking, maybe going back to 5w30 is the move. Despite already over 30k miles on the truck first run showing which means well broken in engine, the wear is half of what it was, I'd be pretty happy with that. However, you have have a condition somewhere in that engine that is shreading viscosity (my guess), I had wear much worse then this and yet my cst viscosity same oil was over 12, and was over 12 in all my 5w30 runs. The good news is I wouldn't worry about that, wear numbers tell the truth over the shreading of visc. But it might be the sound you are hearing is the spot that is shreading oil viscosity, and the 0w30 isn't protecting that spot as well. I hope you get a uoa on the next run as well. Those last two uoa's show you surely can safely be getting more miles on that oil if you chose.

 

[Burla]

Redline 5w30 has an hths of 3.7, redline 0w30 has an hths of 3.4. Now, that is actually fairly huge difference in metal protection. HTHS means high temperature and high shear, because in an engine what shreads viscosity is more likely to be mechanical shearing then high temperature, because engines don't operate that hot generally speaking. Have you had any other oils in that engine, and how did they sound compared to what you have now and this run showing?

 

[HEMIMANN]

Imma run a sample on 5W-30 coming up shortly, then 0W-30 next spring, all from same engine 6.4L Hemi.

Unfortunately, it's not environmentally identical conditions (obviously), with more highway, towing, and hot weather miles on the 5W-30 than the 0W-30, but I will be interested to see what happens to the 40C viscosity as a % of nominal new oil viscosity. I'll try to see if and how much the 0W-30 loses viscosity compared to the 5W-30.

This will provide a little bit of information on the relative shear stability and temperature volatility of the 0W-30 from actual usage, as compared to "typical" spec sheet properties.

 

[Burla]

that would be great info bud, thanks for doing that. Some engines with shread viscosity, but in general that is a low number of engines compared to the field. I really want to see the visc ends up in ramfini's truck, that 0w30, I wonder if it drops to 20 weight.

 

[ramffml]

Redline 5w30 has an hths of 3.7, redline 0w30 has an hths of 3.4. Now, that is actually fairly huge difference in metal protection. HTHS means high temperature and high shear, because in an engine what shreads viscosity is more likely to be mechanical shearing then high temperature, because engines don't operate that hot generally speaking. Have you had any other oils in that engine, and how did they sound compared to what you have now and this run showing?

I don't know what I had in before the first UOA report, I think it was either RL 5w-20 and/or some other synthetic oil, and then the change before that was factory fill.

First UOA report is RL 5w-30
Second UOA report is RL 5w-20
Third UOA report is RL 5w-30

So the middle one was -20.

The best sounding was definitely the two 5w-30 runs. I think the 5w-20 was OK as well, I don't remember it having the light/dry lifter tick the 0w is giving me, it seemed to be a little smoother going in/out of MDS than the 5w-30 as well but I'm just going off the few times I forgot to disable that monkey business so I don't want to claim it as "definite".

As always I appreciate the insight you guys offer here! I'm quite happy to see the copper come down, I was worried about that after the middle run being so short, less than half the previous run but more than half the copper so it seemed that that run might be increasing the copper but it's definitely going down now!

I'm going to try and record the knocking I had with all oils to date on a cold start. Will post that in the syn thread once I get off my butt and actually record it on a cold frosty morning.

 

[Burla]

I don't know what I had in before the first UOA report, I think it was either RL 5w-20 and/or some other synthetic oil, and then the change before that was factory fill.

First UOA report is RL 5w-30
Second UOA report is RL 5w-20
Third UOA report is RL 5w-30

So the middle one was -20.

The best sounding was definitely the two 5w-30 runs. I think the 5w-20 was OK as well, I don't remember it having the light/dry lifter tick the 0w is giving me, it seemed to be a little smoother going in/out of MDS than the 5w-30 as well but I'm just going off the few times I forgot to disable that monkey business so I don't want to claim it as "definite".

As always I appreciate the insight you guys offer here! I'm quite happy to see the copper come down, I was worried about that after the middle run being so short, less than half the previous run but more than half the copper so it seemed that that run might be increasing the copper but it's definitely going down now!

I'm going to try and record the knocking I had with all oils to date on a cold start. Will post that in the syn thread once I get off my butt and actually record it on a cold frosty morning.

So there is science behind everything going on that makes sense, 20 weight is extremely stable, so even in a shearing engine you would not expect it to lose visc, so as you see that is high visc for 5w20, but 5w30 will shear some if you have some place mechanical shearing, it would show in your cSt numbers, and that makes sense as 0w30 could possible sound even worse then 5w20 because 0w30 is prone to shear more then other two oils.

The odd part would be that happened right away? The 0w30 sounded worse from day one? Because usually it would take a while for those vii's to shear. But, imo your next uoa would be pretty important, if what you say is happening matches a real low cSt, you could take it to the bank there is a real mechanical reason behind what is happening. Could be something out of tolerance that is rocking in the bore, that will shread oil visc and leave tick behind. Once you have that info you can fine tune your lubrication strategy. Let us know if it gets worse, which would be a possibility as vii's shear. It is also possible your EP additives will make it quieter in the coming weeks, seen that many times. How many miles on 0w30? How long before it sounded badly?

 

[ramffml]

So there is science behind everything going on that makes sense, 20 weight is extremely stable, so even in a shearing engine you would not expect it to lose visc, so as you see that is high visc for 5w20, but 5w30 will shear some if you have some place mechanical shearing, it would show in your cSt numbers, and that makes sense as 0w30 could possible sound even worse then 5w20 because 0w30 is prone to shear more then other two oils.

The odd part would be that happened right away? The 0w30 sounded worse from day one? Because usually it would take a while for those vii's to shear. But, imo your next uoa would be pretty important, if what you say is happening matches a real low cSt, you could take it to the bank there is a real mechanical reason behind what is happening. Could be something out of tolerance that is rocking in the bore, that will shread oil visc and leave tick behind. Once you have that info you can fine tune your lubrication strategy. Let us know if it gets worse, which would be a possibility as vii's shear. It is also possible your EP additives will make it quieter in the coming weeks, seen that many times. How many miles on 0w30? How long before it sounded badly?

The 0w-30 doesn't sad terribly "bad", just a little bit noisier on initial cold startup for about 3 seconds and then its instantly quiet. Some people have a really loud noise for 3 seconds when the oil drains out, this is a similar sound but is far quieter than the "holy smokes what the heck is THAT" sound which I've had about 5 times in my engine so far (mainly after starting up and shutting down very quickly again). So the 0w-30 has a tiny bit of that dry lifter tick noise there, on every cold start. I don't remember that with the 5w-30 or the 5w-20. When I switch back to 5w-30 in Feb I will know for sure.

Once the engine is running hot though, the 0w-30 sounds just like the other Redline, buttery smooth and quiet all around.

So of all the sounds and knocks I've heard in my hemi, the 5w-30 has sounded best. I just can't seem to fix that knock which comes in a very cold start after the truck has settled down to about 600 rpms and it just sits there and idles, hear a bit of a knock low down in the engine; I don't believe it is lifter tick, the noise is definitely more of knock and less of a tick if you know what I mean. But will record that sound at some point. It has been there with all 3 variations of Redline that I've tried, but I don't remember past that if it made that noise on factory oil (factory oil sounded generally noisy though so who knows, RL eliminated a lot of that general valve train clatter etc from the engine so it might be that I'm now just able to pick out that one remaining sound better since it's so much more quiet otherwise.)

 

[ramffml]

And missed the other question but yes the 0w-30 made that soft-ish dry lifter tick noise right after changing the oil, noticed it literally on the first cold start after the change and it has happened on every cold start as well.

 

[Burla]

All I have to add is lifter tick with the hemi's can definitely be knock, and could possibly cause a shear point. If the engine is warm idle knocking, I'd still possibly fine tune my strategy a little. It could be engine knock, loose piston tolerances or something, but I think that would be rarer then lifter knock, and I'd expect more aluminum. The good news is you wear is dropping like a rock, as long as that trend continues my guess is the truck will do just fine long term.

 

[HEMIMANN]

That is really strange since 0W-30 is lower vis than 5W-30 at all temperatures, at least as ****** oil. I understood @ramffml to say ticking was noticeable immediately after oil change, so that eliminates shear down of 5W-30.

Hopefully not a loose rod!

 

[Hemi395]

My UOA from this summer. 2 camping trips in the northern NH mountains where the oil sat at 240⁰ for longer than I liked. Plus some local camping trips. Considering the mileage on the truck and the oil, I'm happy with this UOA.
Also I didn't run the Filtermags on the filter this time. Seems to have 0 effect on iron levels.

 

[HEMIMANN]

@Hemi395 - thanks for sharing. Nice, low wear. Increased vis. @ elevated temps (240F sump) likely caused by a little evaporation, though Red Line 5W-30 has one of the lowest NOACK's out there of 6. Seeing as you changed @ 5,339 miles, I'm sure all is extremely well inside that Hemi.

Depending what % polyol ester Red Line uses in their base stock, it's probably one of the most oxidation resistant engine oils on the market (not including jet engine oils). I usually throw in the TBN test for fun to see how the antioxidation additives are holding out. I don't think Red Line spikes much additive since polyol ester is so stable. Which is precisely why it's used exclusively for jet engine oil.

I'll be sharing my 6.4L Hemi results in a month or so. It was hot here in MN this summer - lots of 90's, and I towed some heavy loads of wet black dirt, tractors, etc. But my engine oil never went past 230 F. Around here it's all glaciated flatland.

 

[Burla]

My UOA from this summer. 2 camping trips in the northern NH mountains where the oil sat at 240⁰ for longer than I liked. Plus some local camping trips. Considering the mileage on the truck and the oil, I'm happy with this UOA.
Also I didn't run the Filtermags on the filter this time. Seems to have 0 effect on iron levels.
View attachment 476254

This is about as perfect of a uoa as you can get, and this from a hemi tick truck, nice. You are killing it long term man. what is up wit the visc, did you drop a qrt 5w40 in there? I don't even do uoa's anymore because im afraid of what ill see, lol.

 

[Hemi395]

This is about as perfect of a uoa as you can get, and this from a hemi tick truck, nice. You are killing it long term man. what is up wit the visc, did you drop a qrt 5w40 in there?

Yeah considering everything that's happened I'm really pleased with that report.

Yeah idk what's up with that, it was 7.5 qts of RL 5w30 in April. If you look back at the previous reports, the last time the viscosity was that high was during my cross country towing trip. The oil got really hot then too...

 

[ramffml]

Yeah considering everything that's happened I'm really pleased with that report.

Yeah idk what's up with that, it was 7.5 qts of RL 5w30 in April. If you look back at the previous reports, the last time the viscosity was that high was during my cross country towing trip. The oil got really hot then too...

What kind of temps were you seeing?

 

[Hemi395]

What kind of temps were you seeing?

Between 240⁰ to 245⁰

 

[ramffml]

Interesting, my temps while towing straight/flat sit around 108 to 110 (226 to 230), but I did see it spike up to 119 (246) for a longish pull up a hill, running the same oil but my report just above has a lower viscosity; I didn't sit at that temp for long though, maybe a minute max before it was back in range.

Got to say I'm jealous of your copper numbers! Mine are coming down but I was worried there (needlessly?!) for a while.

That (oil temps) seems to be the second weakness of our trucks, I'm looking into getting an external cooler more for piece of mind than any actual need, it's scary how fast these trucks heat up when you work them.