Blackstone - used oil analysis

[Hemi395]

Interesting, my temps while towing straight/flat sit around 108 to 110 (226 to 230), but I did see it spike up to 119 (246) for a longish pull up a hill, running the same oil but my report just above has a lower viscosity; I didn't sit at that temp for long though, maybe a minute max before it was back in range.

Got to say I'm jealous of your copper numbers! Mine are coming down but I was worried there (needlessly?!) for a while.

That (oil temps) seems to be the second weakness of our trucks, I'm looking into getting an external cooler more for piece of mind than any actual need, it's scary how fast these trucks heat up when you work them.

How many miles on your truck? These Hemis like to shed copper for a while, I've seen some UOAs that had 50k+ before copper came down.

I've been looking for an oil cooler as well, the problem for me is in the winter it would cool it too much. In the winter especially you want your oil to get up to 200⁰+ so it evaporates any moisture in the oil...

 

[ramffml]

I'm at ~ 33,000 miles right now.

I wish I saved the post, I thought somebody on this forum parted it all out at one point and got a cooler with a thermostat, so basically the cooler did nothing until it reached (say) 230 and then it opened the valve and cooled it down. Might try and find it back.

 

[Hemi395]

Yeah I had a spike of copper around 30k. Your Hemi is still young, just keep monitoring it.

Yeah I remember that, it was the factory one and getting all the parts is stupid money

 

[Hemi395]

I bought a Derale oil cooler kit with an electric fan but I couldnt fin the larger oil filters with that kit. Ended up sending it back...

 

[ramffml]

I'm on the GM forums too (just for kicks) and this timely thread just showed up, basically a retired chemist is saying that Blackstone is not all that valuable? Any thoughts guys?

https://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/to...blackstone-labs/?tab=comments#comment-2551868

 

[HEMIMANN]

I'm on the GM forums too (just for kicks) and this timely thread just showed up, basically a retired chemist is saying that Blackstone is not all that valuable? Any thoughts guys?

https://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/to...blackstone-labs/?tab=comments#comment-2551868

Well, they won't report HTHS, CCS borderline pumpabiity vis, etc. Vis and metals are pretty run of the mill these days.

 

[MontanaHandyman]

I noticed NAPA has uoa kits...anybody ever used them? Or do they just send it to blackstone?

 

[ramffml]

You wear levels have dropped like a rock from even earlier this year, I would like to see the 0w30 run, but yes follow what the engine tells you with it's knocking, maybe going back to 5w30 is the move. Despite already over 30k miles on the truck first run showing which means well broken in engine, the wear is half of what it was, I'd be pretty happy with that. However, you have have a condition somewhere in that engine that is shreading viscosity (my guess), I had wear much worse then this and yet my cst viscosity same oil was over 12, and was over 12 in all my 5w30 runs. The good news is I wouldn't worry about that, wear numbers tell the truth over the shreading of visc. But it might be the sound you are hearing is the spot that is shreading oil viscosity, and the 0w30 isn't protecting that spot as well. I hope you get a uoa on the next run as well. Those last two uoa's show you surely can safely be getting more miles on that oil if you chose.

I've been thinking about all this for the last few days; is it possible that with my engine being so (relatively) new, the high amount of shredding is maybe due to running too thick of an oil? Should I try run RL 5w-20 again?

 

[HEMIMANN]

Generally speaking, higher viscosity oil provides a thicker lubricating film for a given machine element friction interface.

One would expect less wear with higher viscosity. Obviously, this is simplistic - higher viscosity also increases resistance to flow, which is an issue for the Hemi valve train being poorly-lubricated. Therefore, selection of oil filter is critical - it is important to have a low flow resistance filter. Generally speaking, a media that is synthetic is both more efficient and freer-flowing than cellulose paper. That is why @Burla harps on this.

However - wear metals are associated with highly loaded, high velocity elements, usually cylinder walls, and there has been no evidence I'm aware of that Hemi has cylinder wear issues. Iron and chromium are typical wear metals for that.

 

[ramffml]

I guess what I'm trying to ask in my very layman's understanding; if an oil is too thick/viscous, will it not shred viscosity much quicker because it's "too tight" inside the engine everywhere for the oil to flow properly? If we start with a thinner oil (RL 5w-20), and run that in the same engine, would it naturally not shed less viscosity (relative to it's ****** state) simply because it's thinner to start with, so less issue flowing through a tight engine?

So I'm not asking about wear of the engine, I'm asking about wear of the oil itself due to it being too thick...?

(Oh dear, the keyword nanny did not like me using "v!rgin")

 

[HEMIMANN]

I guess what I'm trying to ask in my very layman's understanding; if an oil is too thick/viscous, will it not shred viscosity much quicker because it's "too tight" inside the engine everywhere for the oil to flow properly? If we start with a thinner oil (RL 5w-20), and run that in the same engine, would it naturally not shed less viscosity (relative to it's ****** state) simply because it's thinner to start with, so less issue flowing through a tight engine?

So I'm not asking about wear of the engine, I'm asking about wear of the oil itself due to it being too thick...?

(Oh dear, the keyword nanny did not like me using "v!rgin")

Nope. Shear stability isn't really related to oil viscosity per se - if we're talking about a fully hydrogenated engine oil, that is. They are all very stable.

Of course, here in the real world, they are NOT all fully hydrogenated....that's where the API Base Oil Group Categories come in. If you read it, they describe / define the % saturation of the carbon chain backbone with hydrogen. The higher the % saturation, the more stable. Note the definition says nothing at all about viscosity of the oil.

Multiviscosity oils introduce Viscosity Index Improver (VII) Additives of varying stability and expense. The more of these used, and the cheaper, less stable they type, the more they will both temporarily and permanently shear down, reducing viscosity. Perhaps this is what you're thinking of?

The measurement for shear stability is HTHS and HTFS viscosity. It is an expensive test to conduct, and more oil blenders either are not doing it or keeping it secret. Another measure for viscosity stability is NOACK, how an oil evaporates over time and elevated temp.

So - the more stable oils tend to be (1) fully saturated polymers (think API Group IV PAO synthetic or Group V Polyol Ester synthetic) with no VII additive, or high cost stable VII additive. There is much discussion that Red Line 5W-30 is very optimal for most Hemi applications. I run it.

 

[Burla]

Hemmiman beat me to it.

It's not about how thick an oil is, it is about the swing rating and the base oils. Shredding viscosity is not something even fca is worried about in hemi's, their 0w40 sheds more viscosity then any oil I think I have seen.

The problem with going to thin 5w20, maybe you will retain viscosity, but you will loose protection, as even though you shredded viscosity the 5w30 redline was still far above a 5w20. If the 5w20 was keeping the hemi quiet, no real reason not to run it, but if it were me I would run 5w30 in an engine that is shredding visc. Look at the wear on your 5w20 run, 1/2 the miles but double the wear numbers. Now, that could be the engine aging normally and you see the wear went down from the time before, but it is heading in the right direction imo. If you have a curious mind on this, go ahead and try it, see where the wear comes in, and then you can perhaps pick a permanent choice between the two. In canada the answer isnt cut and dry, 5w20 is a good move in the cold, especially since you run an oil as stout as redline, but whatever is shedding viscosity I would want a little more protective oil and 5w30 redline is that. If you tow, I wouldnt go 5w20 in an engine shredding visc.

 

[ramffml]

Thanks guys, that really helps.

 

[Burla]

Thanks guys, that really helps.

Redline is famous for not shedding viscosity, I really wonder how bad it would be if using a otc oil in 5w30, probably plenty worse.

 

[KenR 955]

Bought the truck used, with 85K showing. First sample was dealer fill, no idea of the brand, weight or makeup. Second was Valvoline 5w20 synthetic and the tapping started about 2k into this oil run, swapped to redline 5w30 for the next 5K run, no sample as is suggested on this forum, next sample was the latest redline 5w30 sample.
As was said by Blackstone, no issues found and all looks good. Truck still taps every cold start, light metallic sound, (sometimes quite loud), sound does not vary by outside temp, exhaust studs not broken or loose. Tapping goes away 30 seconds to 2 minutes after starting and is quiet when hot. I'm kinda stumped as to the reason for the tapping noise, but if the engine oil test good, I ain't gonna worry about it.

 

[Burla]

Bought the truck used, with 85K showing. First sample was dealer fill, no idea of the brand, weight or makeup. Second was Valvoline 5w20 synthetic and the tapping started about 2k into this oil run, swapped to redline 5w30 for the next 5K run, no sample as is suggested on this forum, next sample was the latest redline 5w30 sample.
As was said by Blackstone, no issues found and all looks good. Truck still taps every cold start, light metallic sound, (sometimes quite loud), sound does not vary by outside temp, exhaust studs not broken or loose. Tapping goes away 30 seconds to 2 minutes after starting and is quiet when hot. I'm kinda stumped as to the reason for the tapping noise, but if the engine oil test good, I ain't gonna worry about it.

Wear is incredible, I never seen a first run redline run with this low numbers. For people who can't see, redline 5w30 4700 miles copper and iron 16-10, last run oil 5700 miles copper and iron 16-14. I hope you do another uoa, i'd be interested. Now, he just hit 100k miles which is usually the best mileage for low wear numbers, but with tick this is incredibly impressive imo. awe, nevermind I see this is second redline run, explains a lot, good work, lol.

Now, you are shedding viscosity a full two points, perhaps your tick is internal, but I don't think there is much you can do about it, and the wear numbers are so good I wouldn't chase that tick, it sounds like a real limited tick. You have already done something real good for the truck, you are sending a high additive oil into that tick, and clearly it is working. Maybe let a few more miles on the next run, get some real good info, clearly you are well protected.

 

[Burla]

Just for forum, his valvoline run did show 60ppm moly.

 

[Dean2]

It is nice that these analysis are posted but without being able to compare them to the previously posted ones, knowing what change from one to the next etc it is really hard to draw any conslusions. I, and I am sure many others, would find it useful if those posting these could provide a short synopsis of what the analysis is telling them about the oil, viscosity, effect over previous and any other pertinent considerations. Burla, I really do appreciate the analysis you provide on some of these.Thanks.

 

[Burla]

Bought the truck used, with 85K showing. First sample was dealer fill, no idea of the brand, weight or makeup. Second was Valvoline 5w20 synthetic and the tapping started about 2k into this oil run, swapped to redline 5w30 for the next 5K run, no sample as is suggested on this forum, next sample was the latest redline 5w30 sample.
As was said by Blackstone, no issues found and all looks good. Truck still taps every cold start, light metallic sound, (sometimes quite loud), sound does not vary by outside temp, exhaust studs not broken or loose. Tapping goes away 30 seconds to 2 minutes after starting and is quiet when hot. I'm kinda stumped as to the reason for the tapping noise, but if the engine oil test good, I ain't gonna worry about it.

one more q, what filter?

 

[HEMIMANN]

If you already have lifter roller damage, Red Line won't undo it. It will slow the progression.
Which is why I went to Red Line right away to prevent damage.
All you can do now is ride it out. As a friend said - if the noise bothers you, turn up the speakers!