Blackstone - used oil analysis

[crazykid1994]

Updated oil analysis. Truck doesn’t get driven much anymore.

 

[Travis8352]

Updated oil analysis. Truck doesn’t get driven much anymore.

Was this quaker state full synthetic?

 

[crazykid1994]

Was this quaker state full synthetic?

Penzoil ultra platinum. First at 15,000 was redline, 30,000 was penzoil

 

[Travis8352]

Penzoil ultra platinum. First at 15,000 was redline, 30,000 was penzoil

Awesome! Pup must have increased moly @Burla

 

[Burla]

3k miles and viscosity is about 5w20, could just be a new engine blues here. That is some hemi wear right there as well as sheding visc, I would want some extra protection, perhaps lubegard, if it were me.

 

[crazykid1994]

I’m wondering if they changed the makeup of the PUP. Plus my truck only goes for short drives now so barely gets all the way warmed up so not sure if that has anything to do with it. Probably switching back to redline next oil change at the end of the year. It’s nice only putting 3k miles a year.

 

[HEMIMANN]

3k miles and viscosity is about 5w20, could just be a new engine blues here. That is some hemi wear right there as well as sheding visc, I would want some extra protection, perhaps lubegard, if it were me.

fyi.... @crazykid1994 UOA viscosity is spot-on that of new PUP 5W-30, as the VOA I sent in last year show - pic attached. Granted, my VOA was API SN PLUS still, but I wouldn't expect the viscosity recipe to change that much for newer SP.

But the flash point must be a typo on my VOA. No way it's 475 deg F?

Also, my VOA has more calcium detergent and zinc antiwear, and less magnesium detergent. @crazykid1994 UOA must be API SP?

 

[HEMIMANN]

Blackstone VOA of Red Line 5W-30. New viscosity measured 10.80 cSt @100C, my recent UOA was 10.81 cSt @100C. So - the oil I put in is truly is this viscosity. It did not shear down or evaporate.

Now we're in confusion zone - because previous UOA's by members were in the mid 11's cST @ 100C, and Red Line Spec sheet advertises 11.9 cST @ 100C "typical" (without a tolerance band specified).

SAE definition of 30 wt motor oil viscosity range @ 100C is 9.4 - 11.9 cSt. So, the oil I have meets SAE definitions, but is 12% lower than spec sheet, and lower than previous UOAs. It's still higher than PUP which is in the upper 9's.

Following is full measures comparison between my new oil and the used oil.........

V*irgin Used
Moly 460 421 clearly some moly plated-out onto surfaces! yay
Boron 168 66 not sure what this does - dispersant?
Calcium 2682 2735 no detergent depletion - high level indicates API SN recipe (not SN+ or SP)
Magnesium 352 312 little detergent depletion - low level indicates API SN recipe (not SN+ or SP)
Phosphorous 1134 1039 clearly some phos was consumed in EP wear prevention
Zinc 1292 1215 a little zinc was consumed in EP wear prevention, but less % than phos, interesting
cSt vis @100C 10.80 10.81 identical. no sheardown, no evaporation - in VERY hot temps and high loads!
Flash degF 460 420 interesting - I'd expect it to go up with evap?
TBN 9.1 4.0 shows antioxidation additive depletion. goes pretty fast in this recipe @ only 4,576 miles

Here is the VOA



Here is the past UOA from the same case of oil..........

 

[Burla]

Incredible work man, a million thanks. It is disappointing that one of the cornerstones of 5w30 redline we can not count on, which is why voa's have extreme value. The number one reason we use redline is for additives and base oils to kill tick, it is likely that will be the same, however this is a blemish on the brand IMO. The problem is guys thinking it is one thing based on all of the uoa's, but it isnt, making guys think there is an issue with shear in the engine, when it was related to quality at redline. We have seen glitches in every single brand in this ten years, clearly redline isnt above it. good work, thanks again man

What can we count on-
POE/PAO base oils
The additive count

What we CANT count on
Thickness of oil.

 

[Travis8352]

Blackstone VOA of Red Line 5W-30. New viscosity measured 10.80 cSt @100C, my recent UOA was 10.81 cSt @100C. So - the oil I put in is truly is this viscosity. It did not shear down or evaporate.

Now we're in confusion zone - because previous UOA's by members were in the mid 11's cST @ 100C, and Red Line Spec sheet advertises 11.9 cST @ 100C "typical" (without a tolerance band specified).

SAE definition of 30 wt motor oil viscosity range @ 100C is 9.4 - 11.9 cSt. So, the oil I have meets SAE definitions, but is 12% lower than spec sheet, and lower than previous UOAs. It's still higher than PUP which is in the upper 9's.

Following is full measures comparison between my new oil and the used oil.........

V*irgin Used
Moly 460 421 clearly some moly plated-out onto surfaces! yay
Boron 168 66 not sure what this does - dispersant?
Calcium 2682 2735 no detergent depletion - high level indicates API SN recipe (not SN+ or SP)
Magnesium 352 312 little detergent depletion - low level indicates API SN recipe (not SN+ or SP)
Phosphorous 1134 1039 clearly some phos was consumed in EP wear prevention
Zinc 1292 1215 a little zinc was consumed in EP wear prevention, but less % than phos, interesting
cSt vis @100C 10.80 10.81 identical. no sheardown, no evaporation - in VERY hot temps and high loads!
Flash degF 460 420 interesting - I'd expect it to go up with evap?
TBN 9.1 4.0 shows antioxidation additive depletion. goes pretty fast in this recipe @ only 4,576 miles

Here is the VOA

View attachment 482570

Here is the past UOA from the same case of oil..........

View attachment 482573

Im beginning to think blackstone has something off with their viscosity measurements

 

[Burla]

I don't think so, hemimann's results duplicates another BITOGers result using a different lab. here, a few months prior also voa redline 5w30 different ab.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Im beginning to think blackstone has something off with their viscosity measurements

Entirely possible. Or Red Line's. We calibrated all measuring and assembly equipment at work annually for just this reason. It's hugely expensive, but an essential cost for premium products.
If your product is low bidder crap, none of this matters. But Red Line customers are paying 230% more than an API Group III Synthetic Oil. That sure fits the definition of premium.

 

[Travis8352]

I don't think so, hemimann's results duplicates another BITOGers result using a different lab. here, a few months prior also voa redline 5w30 different ab.

The cst@100 comes back closer to redlines spec sheet there though. But then again the viscosity is nearly identical in hemimanns uoa and voa so could very well be redline. Ive just seen a voa for m1 esp x2 0w20 and the cst was 9.65 but mobils spec sheet has it at 7.9. Another lab tested it at 8.2

 

[Travis8352]

Entirely possible. Or Red Line's. We calibrated all measuring and assembly equipment at work annually for just this reason. It's hugely expensive, but an essential cost for premium products.
If your product is low bidder crap, none of this matters. But Red Line customers are paying 230% more than an API Group III Synthetic Oil. That sure fits the definition of premium.

Absolutely agree 100%. Thanks for the voa. Good to see moly levels still over 450

 

[crazykid1994]

My fiancées car with 0w20 PUP. 2013 Toyota Corolla.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Here's the rabbit hole, if anybody wants to pay $60. Otherwise contact and trust a lab error%? Maybe I'll ask Blackstone.

Standard Test Method for Kinematic Viscosity of Transparent and Opaque Liquids (and Calculation of Dynamic Viscosity)

Significance and Use 5.1 Many petroleum products, and some non-petroleum materials, are used as lubricants, and the correct operation of the equipment depends upon the appropriate viscosity of the liquid being used. In addition, the viscosity of many petr

www.astm.org

 

[Travis8352]

My fiancées car with 0w20 PUP. 2013 Toyota Corolla.

Now thats a nice lookin uoa!

 

[crazykid1994]

Now thats a nice lookin uoa!

Nearly 0 wear metals in it. Wish we could get the hemi down to that. Lol

 

[HEMIMANN]

Red Line SAE 30 grade viscosity variation analysis:

Published Definitions:

SAE 30 grade viscosity range definition (vis measured @ 100 degrees C): 9.3 - 12.5 cSt midpoint = 10.9 cSt

Red Line High Performance 5W-30 spec sheet: 11.9 cSt "typical", without tolerance range published

Blackstone Measured Member VOA & UOA's, Red Line High Performance 5W-30:
VOA (mine) = 10.8 cSt; from my stock, this is -9.2% lower than spec sheet "typical"
UOA (mine) = 10.8 cSt; from my engine and same stock as VOA. This indicates Blackstone's viscosity measurements are consistently-performed, and my engine did not shear down or evaporate the oil in 4,600 miles of hot, loaded summer use

Lowest Member UOA = 10.3 cSt; this is -13% lower than spec sheet "typical"
Highest Member UOA = 13.1 cSt; this is +10% higher than spec sheet "typical" and is out of SAE 30 grade - it is a 40 grade


CONCLUSIONS:
1) Red Line High Performance 5W-30 Motor Oil has a high measured variation in viscosity.
2) It is not known if the variation is due to defective measurement, manufacturing process, or if such variation is standard in the industry
3) Viscosity is consistently measured by Blackstone Laboratories.
4) Viscosity variation is likely due to the manufacturing process, due to conclusion #3.
5) It is not known what viscosity variation is usual in the lubricant blending industry. All that we know is that variation is very high by this brief data analysis.


I'm not attaching the source data for all this stuff. The post would be too long. If members insist on seeing it to believe this post, ask & I'll post it.

 

[gounc82]

I have switched to 5-30 PUP, 20-820 RP Filter, and 15oz LubeGuard.