Blackstone - used oil analysis

[Gero]

How are everyone's iron levels so low? Is that expected as the engine matures to 100k miles?

Or is it that is because i haven't used any additives?

 

[Burla]

Interval and age of engine two main factors, of course there are many factors. Older engines should have much less wear then young engines.

 

[ThunderMug95]

looks good thanks for posting. Smart move not getting tbn, not needed anymore if you are staying with a 4k interval. Once again lubegard adds 100ppm, cool to verify that. Also, you see the heavy esters and moly raise copper in uoa's, but as you can see not the case with biotech at all, despite raising moly and adding esters. Good report thanks.

I figured you would like to see it!

 

[JHoward]

I did an oil change yesterday and sent off the oil sample to Blackstone Labs.

The sample sent was when using an AMSOIL AEO11 oil filter and Red Line 5w/30 oil ... oci was 3000 miles and I still asked for a TBN ... most likely doesn't matter needing to know the TBN because of changing the oil/filter at 3000 mile oci's.

I'll post the results when I get it.

 

[ramffml]

Got my latest results, first run using HPL.

Also have a spreadsheet where I keep track of this so that I can record the oil used and the wear metals normalized to 10,000 KM.

This shows the importance of normalizing. Because at first glance the copper/iron looks kinda bad compared to previous runs but when we normalize the data it looks pretty good. Green shows lowest value in that row, orange the highest.

Comments from Blackstone:

We like this latest report just as much as the previous three . Wear metals ended up around the same levels, showing
stability that suggests the engine isn't dealing with any impending issues. Molybdenum is a friction-reducing additive, so it
doesn't have any bearing on how the engine is wearing internally. Air and oil filtration seemed effective, and no fuel or
coolant showed up. The TBN was strong at 5.6, so active additives weren't in short supply. Feel free to extend the next oil
run by about 3,000 km. Nice report!

 

[HEMIMANN]

@ramffml good on ya for sharing with us.

Holy $hit lookit that wear with a 20 weight oil!! Gas savings not worth the wear to me.

Wear numbers for HP Lubricants lowest of all. Not surprising since they are all PAO. Red Line has POE base stocks blended, which are great for high temp roller bearings, but not ideal on sliding surfaces like PAO is. That's where Red Line includes all that Moly and ZDDP additive with the POE, also why POE is exclusively used for jet engine oil due to high temps and all roller thrust bearings.

Anyway, HP lubricants looks great! (their top 2 series of all PAO base stock).

Edit - that wasn't even Super Car series - that was Performance Plus, the next best. Amazing.

 

[Burla]

Got my latest results, first run using HPL.

Also have a spreadsheet where I keep track of this so that I can record the oil used and the wear metals normalized to 10,000 KM.

This shows the importance of normalizing. Because at first glance the copper/iron looks kinda bad compared to previous runs but when we normalize the data it looks pretty good. Green shows lowest value in that row, orange the highest.

Comments from Blackstone:


View attachment 522525

i like that tbn, especially that it is mag based. looks good anyhow, no issues there.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I just checked HP Lubricant's Distributor website - with our Ram Forum discount, we get their Premium Plus 5W-30 for $13.13 / qt in a case of 12 qts, less tax if any and shipping. I don't recall shipping cost, it's way upstream in the threads somewhere.

This oil series is also formulated for LSPI, so it's like a super LSPI oil instead of a watered-down wear oil. I could use this stuff for Hemi (has high moly) and wifey's GDI turbo w*h*i*z motor.

 

[ramffml]

Can one of you gents interpret "shear down" for me? So above is what the viscosity was tested at after 13,250 KM (8200 miles), and I sent a VOA of the exact batch I had to Blackstone and they came back with this below.

Basically I'm wondering if I should feel comfortable towing with this oil in the summer.

 

[Burla]

Not much shear down there. Most shear down comes from vii's that break their chain, with 0 weight oils usually you can expect more shear then that. Their heavy use of pao allows for little to no vii's. What is hpl's statement on vii's in 0w30? anyhow that oil is still servicable at those miles, if it was good to tow in the beginning of the oci, it's still good now.

 

[Burla]

Go back and read uoa's here, many oils that start in high 13's are in low tens at 4k miles, now your oil has nothing like that. And, that is hemi specific oil.

 

[ramffml]

Not much shear down there. Most shear down comes from vii's that break their chain, with 0 weight oils usually you can expect more shear then that. Their heavy use of pao allows for little to no vii's. What is hpl's statement on vii's in 0w30? anyhow that oil is still servicable at those miles, if it was good to tow in the beginning of the oci, it's still good now.

This is from their marketing, it appears this oil is meant to be used in very cold conditions and to be pretty shear stable. I just asked because I don't have the know how to separate marketing vs "results" lol

It does "only" have an HT/HS of 3.009, I think you guys usually prefer > 3.5??

When compared with our other PCMO product lines this series takes advantage of high quality PAO delivering superb pour points as well as an advanced VI Improver that has superior shear stability index.

High Performance Lubricants’ Premium Plus passenger car engine oil is a multi-synthetic high performance motor
oil made with the best choices of additive chemistry. When compared with our other PCMO product lines this
series takes advantage of high quality PAO delivering superb pour points as well as an advanced VI Improver that
has superior shear stability index. It is designed for equipment, environment, or service that is particularly harsh.
Oils formulated with specifically chosen esters can help to minimize intake valve deposits, maintain clean engines
and provide elastomer compatibility. The correct detergent selection combined with base stocks that have low
volatility will combat low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) making it a perfect oil for gasoline direct injected (GDI) engines
and small displacement turbocharged gasoline engines. HPL PCMO Premium Plus is also formulated with extra
anti-wear and antioxidant additives to minimize wear while offering an extended oil life compared to other motor
oils. Additionally, HPL PCMO Premium Plus contains premium viscosity index improvers (VII) to minimize shear,
further extending the life of the oil.

source:
https://www.hplubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/PC-Premium-Plus-Engine-Oil-PDS.pdf

 

[Burla]

This is from their marketing, it appears this oil is meant to be used in very cold conditions and to be pretty shear stable. I just asked because I don't have the know how to separate marketing vs "results" lol

It does "only" have an HT/HS of 3.009, I think you guys usually prefer > 3.5??





source:
https://www.hplubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/PC-Premium-Plus-Engine-Oil-PDS.pdf

I concur for what it is worth, that oil is very shear stable.

Yes pao is great for the cold, but that doesn't mean it isnt great for hot as well, indeed it is. hate to do this too as I'm sure you seen this 100 times, but it's true.

It's not letting me post, lol. See the machinelube link.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I only assess shear against a VOA from the same oil case you changed with.

You look @ kinematic viscosity @ 100C and compare between your VOA and UOA.

Without any fuel dilution in the UOA, any viscosity loss in the UOA is usually from VII additive shear down. To stress the oil for this, it's useful to tow frequently in hot weather.

Cheap oils aren't that easy, because they both shear down VII additive and oxidize it. They promote thinning and thickening of the oil. In addition, light, unstable molecules evaporate (high NOACK number), which also thickens the oil.

Blackstone's simple tests aren't sufficient to assess more complex happenings. Need a professional lab for that @ much higher cost.
*end ramble*

 

[HEMIMANN]

This is from their marketing, it appears this oil is meant to be used in very cold conditions and to be pretty shear stable. I just asked because I don't have the know how to separate marketing vs "results" lol

It does "only" have an HT/HS of 3.009, I think you guys usually prefer > 3.5??





source:
https://www.hplubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/PC-Premium-Plus-Engine-Oil-PDS.pdf

I am a bit surprised by the 3.0 HTHS, but keep in mind this is a light base oil with a bunch of stable VII, so more VII will show somewhat more shear down.
And their is likely more volatility.
The strategy for northern climes is still 5W-30 summer 0W-30 winter.
If for whatever reason you need one, 0W-30 is clearly favored for winter flow rate.

 

[ramffml]

I only assess shear against a VOA from the same oil case you changed with.

You look @ kinematic viscosity @ 100C and compare between your VOA and UOA.

Without any fuel dilution in the UOA, any viscosity loss in the UOA is usually from VII additive shear down. To stress the oil for this, it's useful to tow frequently in hot weather.

Cheap oils aren't that easy, because they both shear down VII additive and oxidize it. They promote thinning and thickening of the oil. In addition, light, unstable molecules evaporate (high NOACK number), which also thickens the oil.

Blackstone's simple tests aren't sufficient to assess more complex happenings. Need a professional lab for that @ much higher cost.
*end ramble*

Makes sense, not sure if it was very clear in my posts but yes the VOA sample oil came from the same bottle as my UOA oil.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Makes sense, not sure if it was very clear in my posts but yes the VOA sample oil came from the same bottle as my UOA oil.

On the chart I did not see a 0 hour VOA.

Anyway, back when HP was brought to our attention, I collected published typical specs and put them all on a spreadsheet. To me the best compromise oil was exactly what you picked, HP 0W-30 PP.

 

[ThunderMug95]

I try to follow this thread and post my UOA’s…Y’all have started speaking in code…I read it and all of it is over my head. I just cant speak the language.
Just tell me if my oil/additive is good or not hahaha!!!

 

[ramffml]

On the chart I did not see a 0 hour VOA.

Yes, my bad it's a bit confusing as the data is in two different posts.

This post contains the UOA data:

Blackstone - used oil analysis

How are everyone's iron levels so low? Is that expected as the engine matures to 100k miles? Or is it that is because i haven't used any additives?

www.ramforum.com

And this post contains the VOA data:

Blackstone - used oil analysis

How are everyone's iron levels so low? Is that expected as the engine matures to 100k miles? Or is it that is because i haven't used any additives?

www.ramforum.com

Here is the relevant data in one spot:

VOA:
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F: 61.7
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C: 10.71

UOA:
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F: 60.0
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C: 10.21


And again, both samples came from the same bottle originally, when I put this oil in my truck last year I took a sample and sent it off to blackstone immediately back then.

 

[Burla]

I try to follow this thread and post my UOA’s…Y’all have started speaking in code…I read it and all of it is over my head. I just cant speak the language.
Just tell me if my oil/additive is good or not hahaha!!!
View attachment 522569

All of those terms are just another way to tell someone what their viscosity is and shear is when you lose viscosity "thickness" (technically resistance) because of mechanical process. HTHS and NOACK are higher temperature tests of viscosity then cSt operating temperature. So when towing and engine temps can climb, it is easier to follow hths temp because the engine is operating over it's operating temperature with load. So a test that mimmicks higher oil temperature and mechanical cutting of oil, things that can happen when towing. So there is a need to test oils past just the operating temperature, and other measurements deal with colder temps are equally or more important, When talking about cold viscosity it is very hard to determine the values. Just like hths mimics hot engine under load and how resistance holds up, cold crank viscosity measures the oil's ability to crank a cold engine, pour points didnt tell the entire story, so they found something more specific. So if you tow or start your truck in sub zero weather, it would behoove you to familiarize with these numbers.

As you can see the SUS viscosity as measured in the uoa is the same general temp as cSt operating temp viscosity in the uoa 100c = 210f or close, so I just ignore SUS when it is at the same level as operating temp, because most of us understand operating temperature viscosity in the ranges posted by the api.