Blackstone - used oil analysis

[skates15]

This oil report looks good.

I'm interested with your next uoa of Red Line 5w/30 and that "rock catcher" Purolator Boss oil filter, lol ... I'm currently using the same oil/oil filter and still a little ways to go on sending it in for an uoa.

I've used the Purolator Boss PBL 24651 many times with good uoa results from Blackstone Labs. And, it's easier to "aquire one off the shelf" and is made in the USA.

My next change should be in Dec and I have a PB on the shelf and only run RL 5-30. I'll look into how to do the report.

 

[BLUKTY2]

oil is built well as far as additives, you did lose a lot of viscosity but the wear is very good imo. That 4 alum hints at start up wear, just watch it if it ever goes up you can consider that. It isn't high at all, but in hemi's not known for start up rattle we see a tad less like 1 or 2. Just something to watch, iron and copper are fine, I expect copper to keep dropping. We have had guys move off this oil and have start up tick go away. Did you have start up rattle on PUP?

Thank you for your input. All and all I am pleased with the report, but I think that you are spot on with the alum number. Makes sense with the startup clatter. It has been a few years since I switched from PUP to SS and I am really not sure if the engine had this clatter or not while using PUP. At the time I was blissfully ignorant of the "Hemi Tick" and startup clatter so I didn't really pay attention to such things. I do know that the engine has always been quiet at idle.

Yeah, loss of vis in so few miles is evidence for me to stay away from too wide of vis range oils like 0W-40

Yep, I hear ya and I am not surprised to see the vis drop from 14.8 to 11.76 in just 3,500 miles. Makes me wonder what it would drop to in my typical 5,000 mile run. Seems to me that I need to move away from the 0W-40 oils.

Honestly I am not sure what oil to try next, but with fresh oil in the engine I do have some time to make an informed decision. Based on how I use my truck and the fact that I live in Alaska, would a 5W-30 in the summer months and a 0W-30 in the winter months provide ample protection? 0W-30 year round? Maybe try the Amsoil Euro 0W-30? As I mentioned in another post, this oil caught my eye a few months ago and on paper it looks impressive. Perhaps it is time for me to "take one for the team" and give it a shot!

I have the lifetime warrantee on the truck so if the engine goes south, my cost will be just the deductible ($100 iirc), but I would rather not have to deal with an engine rebuild/replacement so I don't mind paying for a quality oil and doing frequent oil changes. But up to this point anyway, I am hesitant to make the move to Redline or HPL oils due to their cost. Shipping to Alaska is expensive; by the time I get a case of 4 1 gallon HPL Passenger Car 5W-30 delivered I'm at around $16.50/qt. I just looked at Amazon and didn't see gallon jugs of Redline 5W-30 available and the single quarts are $19.29! At least the shipping with Amazon is free. Just a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Burla]

I think in theory which is what we do here, that euro 0w30 and some biotech is a good strategy with what we are talking about. Because it is on the high end of viscosity, you will likely end up in the same place viscosity wise, so your good, less sheared vii's as well. I say add biotech because we don't know the moly level or even if it has moly, some euro oils don't have moly. In theory, a good year round oil, better then 5w30 SS because of the formula on viscosity.

 

[BLUKTY2]

I think in theory which is what we do here, that euro 0w30 and some biotech is a good strategy with what we are talking about. Because it is on the high end of viscosity, you will likely end up in the same place viscosity wise, so your good, less sheared vii's as well. I say add biotech because we don't know the moly level or even if it has moly, some euro oils don't have moly. In theory, a good year round oil, better then 5w30 SS because of the formula on viscosity.

The more that I have bought about this I have to agree. I will run my current 0W-40 for at least a couple thousand miles (rather than just dump fresh oil) and then try the euro 0W-30 w/biotech. I'm not sure how much I will be driving my truck in the near future but I will definitely report back once I have had a chance to use this combination. Thanks again for your input!

 

[BLUKTY2]

I reached out to Amsoil Technical Services inquiring about the Molybdenum, Calcium and Magnesium PPM of their Euro 0W-30 oil (EOT). This is their response:

Pete,
Thank you for contacting the AMSOIL Technical Service Department with your question.
European 0W-30 (EOT):
Molybdenum: 0 ppm
Calcium: ≈1100 ppm
Magnesium: ≈470 ppm
Thank you,
AMSOIL Technical Services
Tech Line: 715-399-8324
Email: [email protected]

@Burla you were correct that this Euro oil has no Moly. So when I make the change to this oil I will definitely be adding at least 16 oz. of Biotech Lubegard, probably more like 21 oz.

I inquired about the CA and MA because I would also like to use this oil in my 2023 Lexus with a 4 cylinder turbo engine. As far as I know, this is irrelevant for a Hemi. But these levels seem to be well within limits for the mitigation of LSPI events (plus EOT is SP rated and has the MB 229.52 approval) so I hope to have found one oil for both vehicles. I will update once I have had the chance to use this oil in the Hemi.

 

[Burla]

I reached out to Amsoil Technical Services inquiring about the Molybdenum, Calcium and Magnesium PPM of their Euro 0W-30 oil (EOT). This is their response:

Pete,
Thank you for contacting the AMSOIL Technical Service Department with your question.
European 0W-30 (EOT):
Molybdenum: 0 ppm
Calcium: ≈1100 ppm
Magnesium: ≈470 ppm
Thank you,
AMSOIL Technical Services
Tech Line: 715-399-8324
Email: [email protected]

@Burla you were correct that this Euro oil has no Moly. So when I make the change to this oil I will definitely be adding at least 16 oz. of Biotech Lubegard, probably more like 21 oz.

I inquired about the CA and MA because I would also like to use this oil in my 2023 Lexus with a 4 cylinder turbo engine. As far as I know, this is irrelevant for a Hemi. But these levels seem to be well within limits for the mitigation of LSPI events (plus EOT is SP rated and has the MB 229.52 approval) so I hope to have found one oil for both vehicles. I will update once I have had the chance to use this oil in the Hemi.

so you can see they are concerned with particulate filters with that formula. I think with lubegard it is an easy choice over ss5w30 with one exception, it would not be a long interval oil. Now, bgmoa would make it a long term oil, but again amsoil puts users in a box, either get a great additive formula or get a great viscosity formula. Another option, put 5w40 mixed with 5w30 SS for those interested in thicker oil.

 

[knightjp]

so you can see they are concerned with particulate filters with that formula. I think with lubegard it is an easy choice over ss5w30 with one exception, it would not be a long interval oil. Now, bgmoa would make it a long term oil, but again amsoil puts users in a box, either get a great additive formula or get a great viscosity formula. Another option, put 5w40 mixed with 5w30 SS for those interested in thicker oil.

I don't know about the US, but considering the price of Amsoil SS 5w30 here, I might as well get Mobil FS 0w40 (which is available everywhere) or get Redline 5w30.

 

[Hootbro]

I reached out to Amsoil Technical Services inquiring about the Molybdenum, Calcium and Magnesium PPM of their Euro 0W-30 oil (EOT). This is their response:

Pete,
Thank you for contacting the AMSOIL Technical Service Department with your question.
European 0W-30 (EOT):
Molybdenum: 0 ppm
Calcium: ≈1100 ppm
Magnesium: ≈470 ppm
Thank you,
AMSOIL Technical Services
Tech Line: 715-399-8324
Email: [email protected]

@Burla you were correct that this Euro oil has no Moly. So when I make the change to this oil I will definitely be adding at least 16 oz. of Biotech Lubegard, probably more like 21 oz.

I inquired about the CA and MA because I would also like to use this oil in my 2023 Lexus with a 4 cylinder turbo engine. As far as I know, this is irrelevant for a Hemi. But these levels seem to be well within limits for the mitigation of LSPI events (plus EOT is SP rated and has the MB 229.52 approval) so I hope to have found one oil for both vehicles. I will update once I have had the chance to use this oil in the Hemi.

I would not be spending the coin on AMSOIL to only add an additive.

 

[ramffml]

I know that HPL's Euro oil has almost 0 moly because when they tested it the moly reacted negatively with the additives or rest of the formula, causing the oil to perform much worse.

It might be OK with amsoil, @BLUKTY2 if you are interested in reaching out to them again it might be nice to get their take on that?

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/hpl-euro-5w30.377024/post-6733927

 

[mdc1990zr1]

I don't know about the US, but considering the price of Amsoil SS 5w30 here, I might as well get Mobil FS 0w40 (which is available everywhere) or get Redline 5w30.

Do you need to add the Biotech to Mobil 1 FS 0w40 or 5W40?

 

[knightjp]

Do you need to add the Biotech to Mobil 1 FS 0w40 or 5W40?

No.. nothing. Here is a video showing how the engine sounds on hot idle with Mobil 1 FS 0w40.

Smooth Hemi sound

Just did an oil change with Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic 0w-40. This the second oil change. The previous oil was the same. Having used Mobil 1 for two oil changes...

youtu.be

 

[BLUKTY2]

I would not be spending the coin on AMSOIL to only add an additive.

I hear what your saying, but this option is still cheaper for me than HPL or Redline. I just checked today and Amazon has Redline 5W-30 for $15.16 per quart in a quart 6 pack which is much cheaper than the last time I looked about a week ago (it was then $19.49/qt!). Edit- just noticed that the quart 6 pack is out of stock so disregard that statement

I know that HPL's Euro oil has almost 0 moly because when they tested it the moly reacted negatively with the additives or rest of the formula, causing the oil to perform much worse.

It might be OK with amsoil, @BLUKTY2 if you are interested in reaching out to them again it might be nice to get their take on that?

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/hpl-euro-5w30.377024/post-6733927

Interesting point and thanks for bringing this to my attention. Definitely worth a shot to contact them again before moving forward with the EOT/Biotech mix. I did read on the Amsoil website (under FAQ's iirc) that ANY oil additives are not recommended in their oils so I feel pretty confident that this is the answer they will give me.

No.. nothing. Here is a video showing how the engine sounds on hot idle with Mobil 1 FS 0w40.

Smooth Hemi sound

Just did an oil change with Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic 0w-40. This the second oil change. The previous oil was the same. Having used Mobil 1 for two oil changes...

youtu.be

Have you done a UOA on this oil? Besides a short lifter startup clatter after sitting for an extended period my 6.4 is quiet at idle hot or cold on SS 0W-40, but the vis of this oil dropped from 14.8 to 11.76 in only 3,500 miles. My typical change interval had been 5,000 miles and while I have not done a UOA with this many miles on the oil, I would only expect the vis to drop even more. I am curious to know how the vis of this oil holds up. I have heard a lot of good things about the Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 but I have been leery for quite some time of using 0W-40 oils fearing viscosity breakdown and my UOA on the SS 0W-40 confirms this.

It seems to me that I should strongly consider switching to a 5W-40, 5W-30 or 0W-30 so I have been exploring my options. The Euro oils caught my attention a few months ago and I thought that these were worth considering until discovering that some may have very little or no moly (thanks @Burla). I think that it has been well proven here on this forum that the Hemi's do like their moly!

 

[Burla]

I hear what your saying, but this option is still cheaper for me than HPL or Redline. I just checked today and Amazon has Redline 5W-30 for $15.16 per quart in a quart 6 pack which is much cheaper than the last time I looked about a week ago (it was then $19.49/qt!). Edit- just noticed that the quart 6 pack is out of stock so disregard that statement

Interesting point and thanks for bringing this to my attention. Definitely worth a shot to contact them again before moving forward with the EOT/Biotech mix. I did read on the Amsoil website (under FAQ's iirc) that ANY oil additives are not recommended in their oils so I feel pretty confident that this is the answer they will give me.

Have you done a UOA on this oil? Besides a short lifter startup clatter after sitting for an extended period my 6.4 is quiet at idle hot or cold on SS 0W-40, but the vis of this oil dropped from 14.8 to 11.76 in only 3,500 miles. My typical change interval had been 5,000 miles and while I have not done a UOA with this many miles on the oil, I would only expect the vis to drop even more. I am curious to know how the vis of this oil holds up. I have heard a lot of good things about the Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 but I have been leery for quite some time of using 0W-40 oils fearing viscosity breakdown and my UOA on the SS 0W-40 confirms this.

It seems to me that I should strongly consider switching to a 5W-40, 5W-30 or 0W-30 so I have been exploring my options. The Euro oils caught my attention a few months ago and I thought that these were worth considering until discovering that some may have very little or no moly (thanks @Burla). I think that it has been well proven here on this forum that the Hemi's do like their moly!

That is why every strategy is a personal choice, as far what someone else said is a danger because someone else told them in the grapevine, contact biotech not amsoil, every oil manu is going to say don't use it. Amsoil has had plenty of hemi tick stories from respected long term members on the wrong side. Yes that euro formula looks great as far as viscosity goes, but zero moly? Not sure what is worse, using a thin 5w30 or no moly. If moly has no business in amsoil, why is SS one of the more stout formulas with moly? The fact is euro oils omit moly AND lower other additives for several reasons, none of them is because it is what is good for a hemi. But, many euro oils also for thick with viscosity, and most them also omit moly. So it's a quagmire, but I would ask, if I have to sacrifice or mix something in it I'd rather not, why would I be brand loyal to that? Just like everything else, amsoil knows what is good for our type of engines, they simply don't care. Ask yourself why have a euro option and not an option for older hemi v8's? yeah. They expect everyone just trust the brand and use what we say, just like everyone else these days. I bet they cant wait til posting stats is optional. I don't mean to just call amsoil out, most oils are the same, they want to put everyone into a basket except us hemi guys, for us it is shut up and do as we say. I haven't looked at it but perhaps if it has to be amsoil, some 5w40 might be a consideration.

 

[ramffml]

That is why every strategy is a personal choice, as far what someone else said is a danger because someone else told them in the grapevine, contact biotech not amsoil, every oil manu is going to say don't use it.

I know what you're saying, but there is more to the HPL story. They use moly everywhere in their line, and not just a little bit but gobs of it, like > 600 ppm. They are clearly a very huge fan of it.

Their one product that doesn't use moly, is their basic "Euro" line. You can write it off as "someone else told them in the grapevine" but clearly HPL loves moly, and for some reason has almost nothing in one specific product line. It's not a stretch to connect the "grapevine" to what we see in the rest of their products and suggest not running a moly additive there.

Instead of using moly in that product, they use boron.

My reason for suggesting Amsoil might have the same thing going on is because of the Euro adpack; these oil blenders like amsoil/hpl/redline all use the same adpacks from like 3 or 4 different companies (Lubrizol/Infineum), if moly reacts negatively to a specific Euro adpack that HPL is using, it's also not a stretch to suggest that Amsoil could be using the same adpack as HPL and moly might not be great in that case either.

HPL does have other Euro based products ("no vii euro", "supercar") which uses different adpacks and those euro products do have lots of moly (> 600ppm).

Personally .... I feel that if you need to use an additive then you're using the wrong oil in the first place. But that's a whole different story and personal choice but I don't see the point in it, I'd rather run a properly formulated oil that is blended by guys who know what they're doing than try to cobble my own stuff together. Amsoil/Redline/HPL aren't cheap stuff either, so if we're spending money on it then I would hope that they're already giving the oil everything it needs and not skimping out due to cost but I very well could be wrong.

But I do agree on your point about the moly and how well it works for the hemi, which is why I won't use HPL Euro. I just choose a different product from HPL (or Amsoil in this case for the OP) and make sure that one does.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I wonder how big the HEMI market is? They sure seemed to make a lot of these engines, and stuffed 'em into a lot of their most popular vehicles - I'd wager many more were bought than the Pentastar V6 engine, or diesels, for that matter.

I find it curious that oil blenders didn't cater to the Hemi market, except for Red Line, HPL, and some Amsoil SS viscosity grades. I mean, we're long past the "Hemi tick is normal" days - the interweb is full of chatter about wiped cams.

BIL just retired and bought a 2500 Silverado with the 6.6 GDI motor. He hasn't bought a diesel since EPA Tier IV emissions regulations and all the exhaust aftertreatment crap.

He likes it so far. He knows the 6.6 gas motor doesn't have GM's AFM on it, so it shouldn't turn into an oil pumper like the 5.3 did. I didn't asked if he looked at Ram 2500. If he did, I'd suspect the price is way too high now thanks to Tavares' marketing genius. I remember when Ram cost less than Chevy and Ford, and with much better interior and ride.

 

[ramffml]

I wonder how big the HEMI market is? They sure seemed to make a lot of these engines, and stuffed 'em into a lot of their most popular vehicles - I'd wager many more were bought than the Pentastar V6 engine, or diesels, for that matter.

I find it curious that oil blenders didn't cater to the Hemi market, except for Red Line, HPL, and some Amsoil SS viscosity grades. I mean, we're long past the "Hemi tick is normal" days - the interweb is full of chatter about wiped cams.

BIL just retired and bought a 2500 Silverado with the 6.6 GDI motor. He hasn't bought a diesel since EPA Tier IV emissions regulations and all the exhaust aftertreatment crap.

He likes it so far. He knows the 6.6 gas motor doesn't have GM's AFM on it, so it shouldn't turn into an oil pumper like the 5.3 did. I didn't asked if he looked at Ram 2500. If he did, I'd suspect the price is way too high now thanks to Tavares' marketing genius. I remember when Ram cost less than Chevy and Ford, and with much better interior and ride.

Both GM and Ford have pretty attractive HD gassers. My next truck (if this one gets destroyed) will probably be in that direction too.

 

[BLUKTY2]

A great conversation and thanks to all that are chiming in.

I have already reached out to Amsoil about adding Bio/Tech Lubegard to their products and I am waiting for their reply. I will update once I receive it. I have decided NOT to reach out to Lubegard despite your recommendation, @Burla, because they state directly on their website "Blends with ALL motor oils currently produced, including API; SJ, SK, SL, SM, SN – SN+, SN, CH-4, CI-4, CI-4+, CJ-4 – CK-4 motor oils". So I can hear it now: Amsoil says "NO, don't add anything" and Lubegard says "YES, add it to any and every oil". Enough already!

I am in the agreement that a proper oil shouldn't need any additives. With this in mind, despite my Lifetime Warrantee and therefore my reluctance to spend an exorbitant amount on frequently changed engine oil, I think that my best course of action is to make the move to either a Redline or HPL product. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am not married to Amsoil; while I think they produce a quality product, their recommended product for my 6.4 Hemi is a letdown. Sure, I could try out brand X, W or Z in their different viscosity grades but I have other things to do with my life so I am really not interested in doing this.

So if I am going to go all the way, I am leaning towards HPL. Now the fun part; which oil? No VII, Passenger Car, Premium Passenger Car, Premium + Passenger Car or Super Car? And what viscosity?

I never knew that owning a Hemi would be so complicated !

 

[knightjp]

Have you done a UOA on this oil? Besides a short lifter startup clatter after sitting for an extended period my 6.4 is quiet at idle hot or cold on SS 0W-40, but the vis of this oil dropped from 14.8 to 11.76 in only 3,500 miles. My typical change interval had been 5,000 miles and while I have not done a UOA with this many miles on the oil, I would only expect the vis to drop even more. I am curious to know how the vis of this oil holds up. I have heard a lot of good things about the Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 but I have been leery for quite some time of using 0W-40 oils fearing viscosity breakdown and my UOA on the SS 0W-40 confirms this.

It seems to me that I should strongly consider switching to a 5W-40, 5W-30 or 0W-30 so I have been exploring my options. The Euro oils caught my attention a few months ago and I thought that these were worth considering until discovering that some may have very little or no moly (thanks @Burla). I think that it has been well proven here on this forum that the Hemi's do like their moly!

Virgin Oil Analysis Results

docs.google.com

This ought to give you some kind of idea.
I haven't done a UOA because I live in Dubai and don't know of any local analysis company here. I just go by what I hear from the engine.
Mobil 1 FS 0w40 is a Euro spec oil and came recommended to me on this forum and even on BITOG. So that's why I trust it.
This is the one that is available here in Dubai.

Mobil 1™ FS 0W-40 – Emalu

www.mobiluae.com

As far as I know, the 5.7 V8 is a lot more fussy when it comes to the oil that I should use. Mopar 5w30 is good, but not great. I'm only going by what I see on multiple oil forums and right now I'm doing the cheap oil, frequent change strategy; every 3000 miles (approx). So far its working and my truck is on 333,000 kms.
Right now I'm on Valvoline All Climate 5w40 because of the Summer and will go back down to 5w30 later on in the year. I plan on giving Havoline Pro DS a try as well.
If Amsoil SS is breaking down so quickly, then maybe try Amsoil XL.
https://youtu.be/wjboMOK43OY?si=5-nLf1yuc351WFkR
I don't know how much Amsoil costs, but frankly if you're looking at something like Amsoil, then maybe give Royal Purple or even Redline a try. Redline 5w30 is by far the best oil recommended here and for good reason. Its never failed. At least not that I've heard.

If your Hemi ticks after sitting for a long time, I think that is an inherent issue with the 0w40 oil. A good practice maybe to press the gas peddle and the try and start the engine and let it crank for a minute or two. This allows the oil to be pumped all over the engine before starting. I believe this is a procedure when doing an oil change.

 

[Hootbro]

I hear what your saying, but this option is still cheaper for me than HPL or Redline. I just checked today and Amazon has Redline 5W-30 for $15.16 per quart in a quart 6 pack which is much cheaper than the last time I looked about a week ago (it was then $19.49/qt!). Edit- just noticed that the quart 6 pack is out of stock so disregard that statement

I get what you are trying to do, but by playing engineer here and putting in an additive, you have also basically voided any warranty protection AMSOIL would provide if you were to have an issue with the oil.

In the end, your choice to do as you see fit, but you will not be dollars saved if something was to go sideways and need someone to back their product that you have now diluted with an additive.

 

[ramffml]

A great conversation and thanks to all that are chiming in.

I have already reached out to Amsoil about adding Bio/Tech Lubegard to their products and I am waiting for their reply. I will update once I receive it. I have decided NOT to reach out to Lubegard despite your recommendation, @Burla, because they state directly on their website "Blends with ALL motor oils currently produced, including API; SJ, SK, SL, SM, SN – SN+, SN, CH-4, CI-4, CI-4+, CJ-4 – CK-4 motor oils". So I can hear it now: Amsoil says "NO, don't add anything" and Lubegard says "YES, add it to any and every oil". Enough already!

I am in the agreement that a proper oil shouldn't need any additives. With this in mind, despite my Lifetime Warrantee and therefore my reluctance to spend an exorbitant amount on frequently changed engine oil, I think that my best course of action is to make the move to either a Redline or HPL product. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am not married to Amsoil; while I think they produce a quality product, their recommended product for my 6.4 Hemi is a letdown. Sure, I could try out brand X, W or Z in their different viscosity grades but I have other things to do with my life so I am really not interested in doing this.

So if I am going to go all the way, I am leaning towards HPL. Now the fun part; which oil? No VII, Passenger Car, Premium Passenger Car, Premium + Passenger Car or Super Car? And what viscosity?

I never knew that owning a Hemi would be so complicated !

HPL SuperCar seems to be the recommended option on this forum, it's a Euro oil. I'm running the "no vii euro" right now, but plan to switch permanently to their cheapest "PCMO" (passenger car).

You have a 6.4 which recommends 0w-40, so that seems like a good choice especially with you being in AK.

All their oils are extremely good and if you're changing your oil every 5k miles then it's not going to really matter which one you pick. The more expensive ones have long legs, with one or two BITOG members running them out to 23k miles and just swapping out the filter every 5k. I'd never do that in a hemi, it's 5k to 7k regardless of what oil I'm running.

Both Premium+ and SuperCar have really good cold starting performance as well, Premium+ is an American/API oil and SuperCar is a Euro oil, they are at the top of their respective lines.

So the two different lines go like this:
PCMO, Premium PCMO, Premium+
Euro, SuperCar

Then they have "no vii" oils as well which contains both API/Euro blends but RF doesn't seem to like the "no vii" for some reason. The "no vii" means it doesn't contain any viscosity index improvers, stuff that thickens your oil as temps increase to allow it to span multiple grades; the advantage here is that it should be incredibly shear stable as there is no polymers to shear down. However, their regular oils don't shear down anyway so the "no vii" stuff isn't really needed. That oil was produced due to a request by several BITOG members.

The only one I wouldn't run is their "Euro Passenger Car Oil" as that is the one not containing any moly.

If you order (advlubrication.com), use "BITOG15" as a discount code to get 15% off.

If you want to run Redline instead, I believe @HEMIMANN swears by 5w-30 due to it not shearing as badly as the RL 0w-40. I'd be a little worried about cold start in AK with the 5w though.