Blackstone - used oil analysis

[quickster2]

For those of you that have been following my recent quest to find a replacement for the Amsoil SS 0W-40 that I had been using, here is an update.

I will be ordering 4 gallons of the HPL Premium Plus PCMO 5W-40. While a HPL rep suggested that I go with the Euro PC 5W-40, I decided not to go this route as this oil contains no moly. I'm sure that it is a great oil (as all of their products seem to be) and would be an excellent choice for many engines, but I'm just not willing to spend this kind of money on an oil that may, or may not, be a good fit for a Hemi. Also, just a fyi for anyone considering either the Euro PC or SC oils, I learned that these oils are identical.

Their Premium Plus oils excel in cold weather which is why I chose it over their PCMO and PPCMO. I plan on extending my oci's out to 7-8,000 miles and will do uoa's to see how it is holding up. I am definitely anxious to give it a try and will report my experience with it.

Did you not go with Super Car because of price or because of the specs. additives, etc? TIA

 

[Burla]

Your engine is quite young yet, do you have any other UOA's and how many miles was that OCI? Personally I'd run 5w-30, but even with 5w-20 ideally that number trends down over the next few UOAs. One UOA with a young engine is hard to draw conclusions, the trends over time are quite a bit more useful.

As a point of reference, my truck was at 62 PPM with that mileage, but my oil was different, my interval length was different, my driving style is different and my truck usage is different, so again hard to draw conclusions. By the next UOA it had dropped nicely into a more healthy number.

If AN is a replacement for ester, why have a formula pao/an/ester?? Can you ask your buddy? What benefit is having all 3?

 

[BLUKTY2]

Did you not go with Super Car because of price or because of the specs. additives, etc? TIA

Long story short, I made my decision based on misinformation that I received from a HPL rep. The price had nothing to do with it; it's all expensive, but Amsoil SS isn't exactly cheap!

I really don't think that you can go wrong with either Premium + or SC. Both have good cold weather characteristics which was one of the attributes that I was looking for.

 

[ramffml]

If AN is a replacement for ester, why have a formula pao/an/ester?? Can you ask your buddy? What benefit is having all 3?

I never had contact with David Ward, just a few people helping with sales. But I can ask I guess, see what happens.

 

[HEMIMANN]

@Travis8352 - where the hell are ya, man?

Why would HPL have both alkylated naphthalene (AN) AND ester in an oil blend?

Is AN a better lubricant at high temp than ester so they only use the ester to carry the other additives (speculation on my part only)

Alkylated naphthalene | ExxonMobil Product Solutions

Synesstic™ AN is a synthetic base stock for step-out hydrolytic and thermo-oxidative stability. As a blend component with PAO or mineral oils, Synesstic AN can extend the performance of your lubricant.

www.exxonmobilchemical.com

 

[Burla]

@Travis8352 - where the hell are ya, man?

Why would HPL have both alkylated naphthalene (AN) AND ester in an oil blend?

Is AN a better lubricant at high temp than ester so they only use the ester to carry the other additives (speculation on my part only)

Alkylated naphthalene | ExxonMobil Product Solutions

Synesstic™ AN is a synthetic base stock for step-out hydrolytic and thermo-oxidative stability. As a blend component with PAO or mineral oils, Synesstic AN can extend the performance of your lubricant.

www.exxonmobilchemical.com

I would have thought the exact opposite about AN/Ester, but we need some paper to verify.

Or AN just to improve water intrusion which doesn't really seam to be an issue anyhow. Can't figure.

 

[Burla]

Great article from Torco of all people, gonna read and digest it a bit.

My worry, what if redline follows the crowd and replaces esters with this? That would suck, or has the potential to suck for hemi tick.

 

[Burla]

Could this explain why we haven't had the same success with hpl as redline as far as tick killing? On paper HPL = better, but they don't account for AN on paper.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Could this explain why we haven't had the same success with hpl as redline as far as tick killing? On paper HPL = better, but they don't account for AN on paper.

That's what I've been thinking too. The assumption that additive plating is always preferable may not be true for Hemi. Having POE on the surface of lifter roller may be preferable to an antioxidant additive or other polar molecule there, like a detergent.

The goal for Hemi is to lubricate - THEN limit deposits.

Other engine types don't have Hemi lubrication problems.

 

[Burla]

Gotta go back and find all of those ester additives, maybe they hold the key. Dare I say if true, then 0w30 redline becomes back into the weapons list? But it can also be synergy moly plus esters, maybe redline knew that a long time ago, way to keep metal sliding.

 

[Travis8352]

@Travis8352 - where the hell are ya, man?

Why would HPL have both alkylated naphthalene (AN) AND ester in an oil blend?

Is AN a better lubricant at high temp than ester so they only use the ester to carry the other additives (speculation on my part only)

Alkylated naphthalene | ExxonMobil Product Solutions

Synesstic™ AN is a synthetic base stock for step-out hydrolytic and thermo-oxidative stability. As a blend component with PAO or mineral oils, Synesstic AN can extend the performance of your lubricant.

www.exxonmobilchemical.com

Been busy lately! Ive been tryin to follow along but havnt had much time to post lol. Esters are far superior in high temp but my understanding is they are superior to esters with seal compatibility and additive response (no competition with the additives) they are both excellent with oxidative stability which i believe is why they use both but thats speculation on my part. Oh it also is capable of cleaning varnish and deposits better than most esters

 

[HEMIMANN]

Been busy lately! Ive been tryin to follow along but havnt had much time to post lol. Esters are far superior in high temp but my understanding is they are superior to esters with seal compatibility and additive response (no competition with the additives) they are both excellent with oxidative stability which i believe is why they use both but thats speculation on my part. Oh it also is capable of cleaning varnish and deposits better than most esters

Thanks, man - keep making that social security payment to me.

And say yah to da yoo pee for me, eh?

 

[TunaFresh]

Some good information.

So our PCMO oil has AN, Ester and Moly just like the premium plus. The premium plus is PAO with a Star VII. Both of those are most beneficial when you are in a colder climate. If you are in North Carolina you would honestly be throwing money away by using the premium plus series over the PCMO. And as always the BITOG15 discount code is important to remember for 15% off.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/leslie-r-rudnick.355170/

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/high-performance-lubricants-pcmo-series.344421/page-5

 

[knightjp]

For those of you that have been following my recent quest to find a replacement for the Amsoil SS 0W-40 that I had been using, here is an update.

I will be ordering 4 gallons of the HPL Premium Plus PCMO 5W-40. While a HPL rep suggested that I go with the Euro PC 5W-40, I decided not to go this route as this oil contains no moly. I'm sure that it is a great oil (as all of their products seem to be) and would be an excellent choice for many engines, but I'm just not willing to spend this kind of money on an oil that may, or may not, be a good fit for a Hemi. Also, just a fyi for anyone considering either the Euro PC or SC oils, I learned that these oils are identical.

Their Premium Plus oils excel in cold weather which is why I chose it over their PCMO and PPCMO. I plan on extending my oci's out to 7-8,000 miles and will do uoa's to see how it is holding up. I am definitely anxious to give it a try and will report my experience with it.

Did you try out Amsoil XL?

 

[ramffml]

Some good information.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/leslie-r-rudnick.355170/

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/high-performance-lubricants-pcmo-series.344421/page-5

And this little tidbit about AN's and Esters since we were just discussing it:

Rudnick was one of the key players behind the development of novel base oil blends, such as integrating AN's with PAO and POE. This approach was developed to overcome the issues with poor solubility and seal swell inherent with the use of PAO while also working to reduce the surface competition issues inherent with using POE. AN's were a perfect fit here, improving solubility and elastomer compatibility while reducing ester content requirements, which improved additive effectiveness due to the reduction in surface competition.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Yep.

Here's the thing - we don't know what or why certain blends have killed Hemi lifter tick. Guys tried different oils and reported results.

All sorts of good educated speculation here, but we don't know. One we know works much of the time is Red Line, without any AN base oil, as far as we know. No way to confirm now that our tech contact is gone and they moved.

IF, repeat IF this is the case, then the polyol ester clinging to metal parts instead of additives initially has something to do with killing tick - maybe.

This is why we were interested in Amsoil vs. HPL. We KNOW HPL adds AN to their top oils. Amsoil says nothing about AN, but we don't know for sure.

IF HPL kills Hemi tick, then we know either / or AN & POE base oil blends work.

We KNOW Amsoil has not worked - supposedly with NEITHER AN or POE.

By deduction, this would mean AN and/or POE are essential base oil blends in killing Hemi tick. Perhaps in addition to lots of Moly MoDTC.

If we experiment long enough, in the future we can be like guys today debating if the Slant 6 can be uprated.

 

[Burla]

We will find this answer I know it, right before the EPA bans hemi's and confiscates them, but we will feel good we figured it out.

 

[ramffml]

Yep.

Here's the thing - we don't know what or why certain blends have killed Hemi lifter tick. Guys tried different oils and reported results.

All sorts of good educated speculation here, but we don't know. One we know works much of the time is Red Line, without any AN base oil, as far as we know. No way to confirm now that our tech contact is gone and they moved.

IF, repeat IF this is the case, then the polyol ester clinging to metal parts instead of additives initially has something to do with killing tick - maybe.

This is why we were interested in Amsoil vs. HPL. We KNOW HPL adds AN to their top oils. Amsoil says nothing about AN, but we don't know for sure.

IF HPL kills Hemi tick, then we know either / or AN & POE base oil blends work.

We KNOW Amsoil has not worked - supposedly with NEITHER AN or POE.

By deduction, this would mean AN and/or POE are essential base oil blends in killing Hemi tick. Perhaps in addition to lots of Moly MoDTC.

If we experiment long enough, in the future we can be like guys today debating if the Slant 6 can be uprated.

Little note, but HPL doesn't just add AN to their top oils, they add it to the basic PCMO as well as this post says

 

[HEMIMANN]

Little note, but HPL doesn't just add AN to their top oils, they add it to the basic PCMO as well as this post says

cool beans! now go out there and try all that $hit and report back!

Truthfully, I know you've been doing a lot, and we thank you. I guess the moral is not to buy a troubled engine, but it's kind of hard to avoid since EPA beat the $hit outta all the OEM's for every billionth of a mile per gallon there is to be had. I remember reading about this at work back in the late 90's.

 

[BLUKTY2]

Did you try out Amsoil XL?

I did not. I don't intend to badmouth Amsoil; I have used their products for decades and will continue to use their ATF and gear lubes, but I am very disappointed in their SS 0W-40 oil's performance, at least in my Hemi. This oil is supposed to have a service life of up to 25,000 miles or 15,000 miles in severe duty use. Knowing how this oil's viscosity dropped so rapidly in only a 3,500 mile run (definitely severe duty use), I am in no hurry to put another one of their engine oils in this engine. This is just my experience and YMMV.