Blackstone - used oil analysis

[The Critic]

thanks for sharing, pretty impressive on a young engine, it is a short run but as you see hemi's are about as high wear engines as you will see. Copper is always whack on young hemi's. Just adding that in case you are new to hemi's. Hemi's are like a tale of two cities, one city is gotham and the other city is mayberry. You may have yourself a mayberry right there, one of those 1/2 million care free mile hemi's. Trade ya? I am all the way gotham, I am not expecting to ever see care free miles to that extent.

I'm currently at 22K. Will be running M1 EP 0W-20 at 5K intervals until I run out, then I'll switch to something else.

 

[Black1500Ram]

Confirming my wear concerns. Higher than average iron in a short duration.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Confirming my wear concerns. Higher than average iron in a short duration.

Sure looks like the vii additive sheared down severely to me. Could also help explain some wear. As members know, I am not a fan of Mobil 1 since Exxon took them over 20 years back.

Supposedly the 'new' (?) 0W-40 recipe is better, maybe European only? It's also why so many of us use Red Line, or PUP + Lube Gard additive to get the Moly additive up.

 

[Burla]

Is that diesel oil? It doesnt matter you are in a hot place, but thick oil can lead to some iron wear. Wouldn't explain this though imo. I would want to run another uoa though, see what is up. Did you say something was going on with the truck?

 

[Black1500Ram]

Sure looks like the vii additive sheared down severely to me. Could also help explain some wear. As members know, I am not a fan of Mobil 1 since Exxon took them over 20 years back.

Supposedly the 'new' (?) 0W-40 recipe is better, maybe European only? It's also why so many of us use Red Line, or PUP + Lube Gard additive to get the Moly additive

Could oil shear severely in such a short interval? This is the m1 fs 5w40 euro.

I’m concerned now as I was planning to keep this oil in for 4.5k miles total, as I currently have HPL cleaner in with it. See next post.

 

[Black1500Ram]

Is that diesel oil? It doesnt matter you are in a hot place, but thick oil can lead to some iron wear. Wouldn't explain this though imo. I would want to run another uoa though, see what is up. Did you say something was going on with the truck?

Hi Burla,

M1 fs 5w40 euro. I have suspected lifter failure (we’re chatting int other thread). This was just the oil I had in before adding HPL cleaner. I now have 1.5 quarts of cleaner in with this same oil. Was planning on running it for 2000 miles, then doing another 2k cycle with cleaner and then redline.

But honestly, I think in 1200 miles or so I’ll do another UOA (2k interval), drain and run another 2k will cleaner to buy time until it’s not 115° out and then just open up the engine and do the internal fixes from my other thread.

 

[Burla]

Hemi tick? Warm Idle tick? No p0300 mis fire codes? Do you ever get cold piston slap?

 

[Black1500Ram]

Hemi tick? Warm Idle tick? No p0300 mis fire codes? Do you ever get cold piston slap?

see our conversations in this thread Lifter failure thread

Loud lifter tap (all temps), not broken manifold bolts sounds very different.
No misfire codes. No piston slap that I can tell of.

 

[Burla]

see our conversations in this thread Lifter failure thread

Loud lifter tap (all temps), not broken manifold bolts sounds very different.
No misfire codes. No piston slap that I can tell of.

sorry man, I cant remember all the ticks out there

If it were me, I'd stop with the cleaning and simply go redline 5w30 and a royal purple filter, looks like 20-500. If you are going with a lubrication strategy, this is the move, because of the iron level the cleaning at this point isnt the move imo. Get that moly on the metal asap. The paper posted that led to all the work here is in most cases you can reverse this. It isn't false hope, but science. And to be clear, it isnt 100% effective, but since you already decided on it, get it in there. Post the results in redline thread pass or fail, we want every experience in that thread. The science of EP additives, they get better as you go. It takes time and pressure and needs to survive the heat, when this happens the low coefficient of friction smooths that out.

 

[Burla]

this sounds like a tough case, but I know, I had a tough case as well. You have nothing to loose, if it doesnt work then consider the next thing. Give it 1,000 miles. Mine didnt work until I hit 500 miles, then it went quiet.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Could oil shear severely in such a short interval? This is the m1 fs 5w40 euro.

I’m concerned now as I was planning to keep this oil in for 4.5k miles total, as I currently have HPL cleaner in with it. See next post.

2,500 miles? sure. All depends on the amount and shear resistance of the VII additive used, and on the duty cycle of the engine. Also the ambient temperature.

If towing up and down mountains with a big, heavy trailer in the heat, you bet additives will shear and oxidize.

 

[Black1500Ram]

2,500 miles? sure. All depends on the amount and shear resistance of the VII additive used, and on the duty cycle of the engine. Also the ambient temperature.

If towing up and down mountains with a big, heavy trailer in the heat, you bet additives will shear and oxidize.

100°+ pretty much always; 1500lbs tow for 600 miles… Suspected lifter failure…

What’s the harm leaving this same oil in for another 2k to let the cleaner work with the amount of shear it’s already exhibiting?

 

[Burla]

100°+ pretty much always no towing.
Suspected lifter failure…

What’s the harm leaving this same oil in for another 2k to let the cleaner work with the amount of shear it’s already exhibiting?

I'm not at all worried about shear, neither is fca who spec'd the most shearing oil around for their hemi's. I'm worried about hemi tick and your slightly elevated iron. The sooner you get those sliding smoothly if you can, the better. The cleaner isnt gonna do that, the high ep and base oils will. However, it is indeed your truck and your call.

 

[Burla]

Industry cares about it's equipment, so they employ proactive maintenance, proactive maintenance principles, and proactive maintenance strategy. When you mention anything like this in a car maintenance forum you will get squawked at. But in say a tractor forum or a machine lube forum it is the rule, not the exception. People using expensive equipment not only use uoa's to see the wear, but actually mix lubricants to address problems, GO FIGURE? Find out how the equipment is wearing, add known principals to the lubrication formulas, and have a maintenance strategy including interval, pressure, filtration, etc. It is the spirit of those principals why so many ram owners have literally fixed their issues. You can call it something different if you like, but it is indeed about problem solving just like in industry. If an industry machine needs a cleaner, they use a cleaner, if they need AW/EP additives then they add those, if they need base oils they will even add those. That isn't me talking but machinelube, it is in every paper over there.

You already started this process, you learned about it applied a strategy (cleaner), likely benefited from it, now you need to adjust your strategy based on principals, to fix a problem. If you had a million dollar piece of equipment you already would have adjusted your strategy, so treat your truck just as good as they treat their stuff. You have hemi tick and elevated wear with some shear hinting that mechanical shearing is happening, so there is no known date when cam's fail, just that they often do here, I would save as much of the lob as I could with those principals, good EP additives and hths.

 

[Black1500Ram]

I'm not at all worried about shear, neither is fca who spec'd the most shearing oil around for their hemi's. I'm worried about hemi tick and your slightly elevated iron. The sooner you get those sliding smoothly if you can, the better. The cleaner isnt gonna do that, the high ep and base oils will. However, it is indeed your truck and your call.

This is super fascinating… is there any reading you might recommend?

 

[Burla]

You can search those terms and machinelube.com, but much of that in synthetic oil thread as well. Another good spot is white paper section at BITOG. But in your case, just get moly in that sump. If you want to wait, maybe find some lubegard biotech locally and dump 15 ounces in. That product is the correct moly.

 

[Highway]

Burla,
getting ready to send off my oil sample to Blackstone, is the TBN test necessary or is that only if you plan on going over 5,000 mile on oil changes

 

[Burla]

Burla,
getting ready to send off my oil sample to Blackstone, is the TBN test necessary or is that only if you plan on going over 5,000 mile on oil changes

Kinda generally yes like you say, I feel pretty comfortable on most synthetic oils 5k miles, some low saps have real low starting tbn's, but as long as you arent running euro stuff and you are synthetic, I say you don't need tbn if you will go 5k miles. Now, if you go boutique as in redline, amsoil, hpl those are all long interval oils, then you might want to do tbn to take advantage of a long interval.

 

[Highway]

Kinda generally yes like you say, I feel pretty comfortable on most synthetic oils 5k miles, some low saps have real low starting tbn's, but as long as you arent running euro stuff and you are synthetic, I say you don't need tbn if you will go 5k miles. Now, if you go boutique as in redline, amsoil, hpl those are all long interval oils, then you might want to do tbn to take advantage of a long interval.

Bought the truck used and did my first oil change with Pennzoil platinum full synthetic and mopar oil filter. Just today changed oil at 4,800 miles later. Switched to redline 5w/30 and fram xg2 filter

 

[Burla]

So you just want a general idea of how that truck is running, a 2013 I assume some good miles? A fantastic idea, save ten bucks and forget the tbn. Is it ticking? Just curious why redline?