Brake Fluid thread

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Burla

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Let's talk some brake fluid. The reason I am including another applications fluid picture to highlight how rams brake fluid can get dirty much faster. I'm certainly guilty of neglect, but let this being a teachable moment, been putting this off way too long. I have done everyone of my friends vehicles brake fluid but not my own like a straight dummy. Post of your brake fluid changes.

Things to consider dot 3 versus dot 4, both are compatible, dot 4 should really be considering due to the fact our fluid gets so dirty so fast. It is higher quality in every way.

Brake fluid is not like other fluids, you need to wear gloves and eye protection, consider yourself warned.

They have brake fluid testers, don't get fooled by clear fluid, it still can have a high % of water which messes it up in many ways.

Learn how to do it at the wheel, the fluid at the wheel needs to be sitting in fluid to avoid air in the system, not going to get into all that, look up the correct process for brake bleeding, you don't need a bleeder just some tubing on caliper bolt and a bottle.


10 year old 80k mile dot 3 in a rav 4 versus new dot 3 fluid

51480393914_60fd851c65_c.jpg

Ram brake fluid versus the same fluid as above, even younger by a year and 50k less miles. I thought I did my fluid before, which would make this even worse, but can't really remember.

51478896687_11469464a6_c.jpg

New Dot 4 Redline next to ram dot 4 brake fluid with 30k miles on it.

51480395744_164fc35b99_c.jpg

Yes I am the Darwin who puts his vehicles on 4 jack stands, don't be me. After I did this I was like, why didn't I just do one corner at a time? Duh. Of course, you always go to the farthest unfinished corner first when you pump the fluid out, repeat til 4 corners are done. Below is a picture of what not to do, just do one corner at a time, much smarter. I don't know what I was thinking, but was able to rotate the tires anyhow.

51479675991_fd71572f83_c.jpg
 

G-Ride990

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How did you do it yourself without a powerbleeder? Just submerge the hose from the bleeder in fluid so it doesn't suck up air when you pump the brakes? Or did you just open the bleeder and let the fluid run out?

Absolutely crazy the RAM fluid is so much darker! What is the color coming from? Water? Cooking the fluid? Or is the fluid leeching the color out of the rubber hoses?
 
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Burla

Burla

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I'm not sure why it is so darker, I thought maybe because the pistons are so much larger more dirt gets in there, but that is a simple guess. Maybe how the fluid works in anti lock? another guess.

Yeah, just take an old water bottle dry for sure drill a hole in cap for tube and put a couple ounces fluid in there, attach other end to caliper. I have a break bleeder I still do it this way, guess I just like it. Have to pump brakes, you cant let it leak out with anti lock, two pumps then fill, two pumps then fill.
 

G-Ride990

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Oh wow I forgot about fine dust making it through the seals on the pistons. I think that makes the most sense.

I will have to check mine now. I am at about 45-46k miles now and honestly I have never looked at it other than to make sure there is fluid in there before trips.
 

HEMIMANN

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Huh. My Ram specs Dot 3, a Glycol. Isn't Dot 4 a silicone?

Yeah, the old man taught me Glycol brake fluid needs changing every 2-3 years. Absorbs water, entrains air, rusts any internal ferrous metals, brakes turn spongy.
I forgot to do mine, sure enough, they started getting spongy right at 2-1/2 years.
New fluid firmed them right up.
 
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Burla

Burla

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no, only dot 5 is silicone. If it takes dot 3, you can use dot 4, and dot 4 is better. However, I don't really know much more then that, do your own research.
 
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Burla

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Here, from amsoil...

DOT 3 is the most common type used in cars and trucks today. DOT 4, however, is gaining popularity due to widespread use of anti-lock braking systems and traction control, which benefit from DOT 4 fluid’s lower viscosity.

Are DOT 3 and DOT 4 brake fluid compatible?​

Yes, DOT 3 brake fluid is compatible with DOT 4 brake fluid. However, DOT 4 offers a higher boiling point.

DOT 5.1 is used in high-performance and heavy-duty applications due to its high boiling point. It’s compatible with DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluid.

DOT 5 brake fluid is silicone, meaning it doesn’t absorb water. It’s not compatible with the other brake fluids and is used mostly in classic cars that remain in storage for long periods and need a brake fluid that doesn’t absorb water.
 

Bigskyroadglide

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I just changed my 16 larmine, with 53k over the labor day weekend.

Used a 100cc syringe and plastic hose to drain the master cylinder. Replaced with new DOT 3. (I'm traditional). Then bled all 4 wheels one at a time, refilling the master after each wheel. Bled till fluid was clear. Then topped off the master cylinder. Took 1 quart plus almost 3/4 of the 2nd quart. Don't know how anyone else does it but that's my process. Truck has great brakes. No more dirty fluid.
 

HEMIMANN

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I wasn't aware of a "new & improved" :rolleyes: glycol (DOT 4). Below from PowerStop, one of the most popular aftermarket brake suppliers....

DOT 3
By far, DOT 3 is the most popular. It’s been in use for a very long time. Fresh DOT 3 has a boiling point of 401 degrees Fahrenheit, fully degraded it drops to 284 degrees Fahrenheit. This makes your brake fluid much more likely to boil. Braking hard, going downhill for a long period, towing, or racing can speed up this process.

Since DOT 3 is highly corrosive, great care should be taken. It will remove paint and should be cleaned up immediately using soap and water or a simple degreaser.



DOT 4
DOT 4 is beginning to be used more widely in by vehicle manufacturers, but is used mostly by European car manufacturers currently. Although there are different types of DOT 4 brake fluid, it has a higher boiling point than DOT 3. These boiling points start at 446 degrees Fahrenheit. Additional additives in DOT 4 help reduce the acids that can form from moisture.

While DOT 3 and 4 are technically intermixable, it is not recommended. DOT 4 is twice the cost of DOT 3 and for most, there’s little benefit to switching. There are several different types of DOT 4 so be certain you use the correct type.

DOT 4 is used in some euro and domestic vehicles. DOT 4 Plus is used in Mercedes and Volvo. DOT 4 Low Viscosity is used in some BMW models. Finally, DOT 4 Racing usually has an added blue color.
 

clint440

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Good thread. I was wondering if it was just me or if that RAM brake fluid gets dirty fast. Now I know.

For sure, step 1 to alleviate spongy brakes, step 2 Wagner OEX pads and rotors. Stops like a Euro car now.
 

Treburkulosis

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I put dot 4 in mine as well. Mine was fairly dirty, but its been flushed every brake change.
 

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HEMIMANN

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Wow - that is crazy.......why would DOT classify different chemical categories by decimal number? Dot 2 was always alcohol in an oil emulsion, Dot 3 was glycol, Dot 4 was glycol + additives, Dot 5 was silicone.


brake_auto_chart.png
 
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Burla

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Those glycol ethers must be what everyone is scared about and why you can barely put your nose to dot 4, that stuff can get through skin, why you should put gloves on. Probably should not smell it either, lol. I bet the 5.1 is really sharp. I don't really have info on brake fluids past boil temp comparisons, maybe we can find some white paper out there.
 

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I get irked when I read misinformation being spread on the internet but like a most free information you’re not made to believe anything you just need to learn from correct sources that aren’t biased by profit because sales a marketing aren’t traditionally based on engineering facts.

Dot 3 is less hygroscopic than Dot 4 which is more common in aftermarket but not used as much in assembly at the factory meaning it absorbs less moisture from the
environment in which the lower parts of a braking system collects this moisture because water is heavier than glycol based fluids the calipers / pistons are the closest to the generated frictional heating of the pad to rotor or shoe to drum contact this is where corrosion damages piston surface action the constant heating and cooling of the metal components (this is one of the said advantages of ceramic components but they lack ductile strength)

New Vehicles sitting in storage for an extended period of time and evaporation from weather heat related sources Dot 3 is more practical.

With Grease for pots and piston contact seals it is ideal to maintain routinely as much as the fluid and quality makes good sense flushing the brake system by changing the fluid and evacuating it from the top down rather that back up through the system as when filling or bleeding silicone based fluids (Dot 5) because of trapped air bubbles and with it pushes the contaminates back up into the system (not a good thing)

One particular forgotten fact is bleeding brakes with extensive computerized systems is not efficient nor as effective without actuation of the system or antilock mechanisms through a peripheral device.
Although there are a number of gadgets and gizmos that are available to mechanically aid assistance none are quite as good as the aid of the vehicles own system actuators.

4 years is the average recommended conventional brake fluid change interval .
Testers are used basically on the brake fluid reservoir and traditionally the fluid is replaced in increments as the pads or shoes decrease from wear so the fluid at the top of the system can give a positive result where as the fluid in the bottom of the system is where most of the impurities and contamination lies.
Testers even have a disclaimer that they only are for moisture content and do not reflect the quality of the fluid itself.

Brakes themselves can be a gigantic subject of discussion more than engine oil or tire sizes but it seems to be the most misunderstood aspect of vehicle maintenance and ownership.
 
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Mike Murphy

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With all due respect, Dot 3 and Dot 4 are not compatible. While Dot 4 is backwards compatible (Higher dry/wet boiling point), Dot 3 can not be used in a Dot 4 system. In a brake system with high heat characteristics the Dot 3 (brake fade) will boil, trapping air in the system, causing brake failure. The low viscosity Dot 4 is necessary for vehicle with ABS and traction control systems. The advice for any fluids or maintenance for your vehicle is to refer to your owners manual or service manual for the correct fluid type and specifications. If you would like to know how much water is in your brake fluid, use a volt meter. Put the positive in the brake fluid and the common on battery negative. .1 mV = 1% water and 300 mV or 0.3 mv is 3% water. The maximum specification for water in a brake system is 3% water.
 
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Burla

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Good point, I can accept most of that. I didn't think we were talking about moving downwards, but who in their right mind would want to use dot 3 in a dot 4 application? Dot 4 is the higher quality oil, I'm of the point of view if someone wants to choose a cheaper lesser quality brake fluid, they earned their darwin award so they should collect that.
 

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