Braking whoas( or lack of)

[Sofaking]

Howdy folks, christian here, New member hailing from fla... have been having a heluva month with my '13 express swb with the hemi..
About a month ago I managed to find the mother of all potholes of my way to work one morning. After collecting my senses back I immediately realised i had done some serious suspension/steering damage, to the point that it ate the tires off within about 300 miles. So, one lower control arm and two alignments later, the truck is back to driving right. What I didnt mention yet ,is that after encountering said hole, I immediately had all kinds of lights and msgs coming across my info cluster. ABS light, the traction light( the one signifying wheel sensor) along with msgs like service electronic braking system, and something something electronic steering system. And the biggest problem is that the brake pedal will randomly go to the floor, but will remedy as soon as let up and pressed again. Not cool... so ,I scanned and replaced left fromt wheel speed sensor. Noticed while doing so that I had a leaking left front caliper also. So in hopes that that was my braking issue, I replaced it also. Got it all together and bled up.. took it for a test ride, and damn near rolled right out into the intersection leaving the neighborhood. I went from having good brakes 98% of the time , to a pedal that dives to the floor, but will pump up after half a dozen pumps and stop the truck, butbwill go right back to the floor again as soon as going again and needing to stop. I dont get it. It was a straight forward caliper change. Fluid bled afterwards. What changed? Any insight is much appreciated yall.

 

[PoMansRam]

Sorry if I missed it, but can you hear the ABS pump/motor whizzing when the brake pedal goes to mush mode?

Maybe pull the ABS fuse to see if the problem goes away.

 

[KenR 955]

Reminds me of my kid's Jeep Wrangler TJ caliper swap that went poorly. Turns out that you CAN mount the caliper upside down and still bleed it properly. I got it straightened out for him, but, lesson learned.
I've not messed with the brakes on a 4th Gen yet, but can these calipers be mounted with the bleeder on the bottom?

 

[co-pilot]

Hey Sofaking.......sorry i don't have an answer for you .....but welcome to the forum & good luck with the brakes, i'm sure others will chime in soon!

 

[Burla]

Do you have full coverage and open a case on suspension pieces, if you have full coverage you can and should, and give it to a shop and have them fix braking system. Pot holes can be flat out dangerous sometimes.

The damage is in the system, likely the abs as after pot hole damage you still had it go to floor. Everything but abs is dump tech, as in you push pedal and the caliper pistons smash in thanks to hydraulics, the only thing I can think of that is in between that dumb tech that can act like this is abs. That's why I miss old trucks that would have abs up front but drum brakes in the back, that way drum brakes can stop if there is a problem like this, but alas we get 4 wheel abs.

 

[Burla]

My wife had two accidents similar to this last year, hitting cr@ p in the road, caused a ton of damage both times to her rav 4. Her second accident happened while we were waiting an estimate from the first one, lol. Turned it over to insurance, there is a name for it similar to no fault, we just paid our insurance bill this year, it wasnt raised a single dime. Your ins wont go up if you have full coverage.

 

[Jeepwalker]

What you're describing sounds like classic "Air in the ABS Modulator" situation ....assuming you thoroughly bled the front and rear brakes before. Don't worry, your truck's not 'broke', it's easy to resolve.

If any air gets into the ABS Modulator, which it seems like it did, those air bubbles becomes trapped amongst the ABS ports and/or valves. You must use a scan tool to cycle the pump and ABS valves to remove the trapped air. Normal bleeding won't do it. Sometimes ya gotta cycle the ABS a couple times.

But you're going to need a good scan tool, like a Snap-on scanner, or another scanner with an ABS bleeding feature. Therein the scanner is a special ABS bleed procedure that you follow (it provides plain-english instructions), which mainly involves holding your foot on the brake pedal during certain points of the procedure. Once completed you then re-bleed the truck's brakes again like you did originally to work out any air that came out of the ABS Modulator.

If you know someone with a good Snap-on scanner, or scanner with an ABS bleed feature, it takes about 5 minutes. There are some less expensive scanners by Foxwell and Launch (search Amazon) that also have electronic ABS bleeding features if you don't know someone with a 'Pro' scanner. (double-check your vehicle compatibility). Sometimes ya have to perform the procedure a couple times. So, ...to recap, cycle the ABS a couple times and re-bleed the brakes. That should restore your pedal firmness.

Or you could take it to a repair shop. They do this stuff all the time.

 

[Burla]

100% correct, but how did the air get in the first place. Normally you do that when someone runs the abs dry or lets air in the system, maybe that leaking left caliper was the cause of the air and once purged and scanned it will be good. The potential issue is if the air is coming from somewhere else from damage, find a way to not go into an intersection blind as a way to test it. That cant happen again. The fact it happened already, I'd be passing it off to someone who will make sure it doesnt happen again because if it did they would be sued to the ground, and nobody wants that. Give them all the info and let them own the fix.

I also found some ins would raise your ins, and some wouldn't. So you have to ask.

 

[KenR 955]

I also found some ins would raise your ins, and some wouldn't. So you have to ask.

As I found out as a young driver years ago, I was told "You collided with that object. This is a collision claim". KR-"But it was a pothole!" Ins- "No matter, you hit it. Collision claim. Deductible applies."
Yep, yearly premium went up.

Times may have changed since 1982, I don't know.

 

[Burla]

My wife hit a bed frame sitting in the middle of the freeway, a week later hit a pop in bed truck liner in the same vehicle. And even though these are collisions costing several thousand dollars in repairs, they fall into a category and the name escapes me, but they are no fault to the driver so inc pays and cannot raise rates.

Both accidents my agent told me this category and said it will not effect rates. But we weren't convinced til we got our yearly bill, and in fact there was even a decrease in rates, but our home ins went up due to fires, so they will get theirs one way or another. AAA ins, and I believe progressive also has pothole coverage, but my old ins allstate did not have this no fault category. Looked it up, "comprehensive" ins, if you have that, potholes should be covered and rates are not allowed to go up. If you have comprehensive ins, the rate cannot be increased no matter how many claims you file, as long as they fall into that category, and I am living proof, lol.

edit, maybe too strong of statement, but ours rates didnt go up filing 2 comprehensive claims costing thousands each damage, maybe depends on situation, of course enough of anything will cause your ins company to drop you. My brother is living proof of that, the i d i o t, lol.

 

[RJL1]

Reminds me of my kid's Jeep Wrangler TJ caliper swap that went poorly. Turns out that you CAN mount the caliper upside down and still bleed it properly. I got it straightened out for him, but, lesson learned.
I've not messed with the brakes on a 4th Gen yet, but can these calipers be mounted with the bleeder on the bottom?

My guess is the caliper is upside down.

 

[Jeepwalker]

Hmmm, yeah, that's another possibility. Good call. Bleeder should be facing 'up'. Could also be a M/C ...if it went back in the process of pumping it 50x in a brake bleeding process.

Usually when a guy can 'pump' the pedal, it points to air in the ABS (assuming the M/C is good -- another possibility).