Buying a (new for me) used 2500 diesel

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SouthTexan

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@SouthTexan the point I was making, is that "don't let anybody tell you not exceed the rating of your truck" is completely nuts; you don't say that to somebody who is a v!rgin (can I use that word) to towing.

Guys new to towing shouldn't be pushing the limit of their truck.
That is what I meant when I said "I understand that people fear what they don't know and many are ignorant of the law and truck class regulations so they err on the side of caution." If you don't know much about towing or the laws/regulations, then I understand people erring on the side of caution.
 

ramffml

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That is what I meant when I said "I understand that people fear what they don't know and many are ignorant of the law and truck class regulations so they err on the side of caution." If you don't know much about towing or the laws/regulations, then I understand people erring on the side of caution.

I'm not talking about laws and regulations, I'm talking about knowledge and experience. My trailer when connected incorrectly (even using all the correct tools like WDH + air bags) will give me a white knuckle trip at 50 mph. When setup correctly using the same equipment it rides perfectly at 65 mph. So having a bit more truck than you need is a crucial safety feature for newbies to towing. Rather than trying to eek out every last pound of towing capability, maybe don't recommend that they do that.
 

SouthTexan

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I'm not talking about laws and regulations, I'm talking about knowledge and experience. My trailer when connected incorrectly (even using all the correct tools like WDH + air bags) will give me a white knuckle trip at 50 mph. When setup correctly using the same equipment it rides perfectly at 65 mph. So having a bit more truck than you need is a crucial safety feature for newbies to towing. Rather than trying to eek out every last pound of towing capability, maybe don't recommend that they do that.
I wasn't just talking about laws and regulations either. Hence why I said "If you don't know much about towing or the laws/regulations, then I understand people erring on the side of caution." As in one or the other.

Although I will say that I have my 14k 5ver with both a 2500 diesel a 3500 diesel a year newer and there was absolutely no difference between the two in how they handled the trailer. Both even squat about the same with less than half an inch between them. I can imagine once you start getting closer to their 17k max trailer tow rating(which is the same for both), then the difference between them might become more evident. Maybe the 2500 may squat a full inch more than the 3500 at that weight and there is more of a noticeable difference in trailer bounce/sway, however, with there is no noticeable difference with at least 14-15k based on my experience.

Not saying no one should get the 3500, just saying I would not hesitate to pull 14k with it or haul 3k in the bed(which I have) with a 2500 diesel. Not once did I feel unsafe or unstable doing so and the suspension parts are still going strong with no abnormal wear after almost 8 years of using my truck like this.
 
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Sandevino

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Can the 2500 tow more than it’s “rated” for…? Absolutely and all day long. Payload is only part of the story.

The GVWR is what you need to focus on when you’ve got your trailer hitched up. Combined GVWR and ACTUAL ROLLING WEIGHT of your entire setup has to be under 26,001 pounds to operate with a non-CDL license. Your insurance carrier will also give you a hard time or outright deny a claim if you operate over-weight and get into an accident.

Go ahead and do what you want, say what you want and believe what you want. Capability, ignorance and liability are never a good mixture.
 

stevenP

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One thing to add, I have had three different fifth wheel RV,s in the last ten years. Ended up buying two different trucks due to the always increasing size of the RV (darn those RV shows!). Now I have a 3500 dually with the cummins. I am thrilled with the engine braking feature of the diesel, hands down the best thing ever with a heavy RV pushing you. At times the mileage still sucks(9mpg), but that exhaust brake is a life saver.
 

dhay13

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My son just traded his 2018 2500 6.4 for a 2021 2500 Cummins yesterday. We didn't have time but the salesman sais they had just got done with their towing training that taught them all about the weight limitations and that they were required to do the training for liability reasons. I wanted to ask him what they were told but we didn't really have the time. My son has an 8100lb TT but is selling that and has no plans of towing anymore at least for awhile. He puts a ton of miles on and the resale of the Cummins with high miles was his logic for buying one. He read off the max tow (~19,000lbs) and payload (~2090lbs) the only thing I said was that you could never hit that max tow without going over other limits and he agreed with that
 
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Andrew1177

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Thanks for all the info alot of information to process, and I think that I miss spoke about the trailer being 20k. I'm not looking for a trailer that is that heavy someone just had told me the 2500 was capable but I thought was alittle high. The main reason for a 2500 is price but I did just happen to come across a deal for a 1 ton 2016 chevy dualy duramx with a 5th wheel for about 80k. I'm a huge dodge fan and have always want a Cummings but am thinking about this deal with the chevy. Any thoughts on a duramx vs cummings?
 

jejb

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Thanks for all the info alot of information to process, and I think that I miss spoke about the trailer being 20k. I'm not looking for a trailer that is that heavy someone just had told me the 2500 was capable but I thought was alittle high. The main reason for a 2500 is price but I did just happen to come across a deal for a 1 ton 2016 chevy dualy duramx with a 5th wheel for about 80k. I'm a huge dodge fan and have always want a Cummings but am thinking about this deal with the chevy. Any thoughts on a duramx vs cummings?
$80K for 2016? Surely that is a typo.

I owned a first year (2001) Duramax/Allison in a 3/4 ton. Great truck. The reasons I went Cummins for my 18 was GM HD pickups are at the very bottom of the reliability ratings the last few years, and the Cummins in our diesel pusher has been great to us.
 

SouthTexan

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Can the 2500 tow more than it’s “rated” for…? Absolutely and all day long. Payload is only part of the story.

The GVWR is what you need to focus on when you’ve got your trailer hitched up. Combined GVWR and ACTUAL ROLLING WEIGHT of your entire setup has to be under 26,001 pounds to operate with a non-CDL license. Your insurance carrier will also give you a hard time or outright deny a claim if you operate over-weight and get into an accident.

Go ahead and do what you want, say what you want and believe what you want. Capability, ignorance and liability are never a good mixture.

My insurance carrier doesn't even know the GVWR of any of my vehicles let alone deny a claim due to me being over my GVWR. They go by whose fault the accident was. When I was in a small fender-bender in my truck towing 14k trailer, I was over my truck's GVWR. A car swerved out of his lane in front of me to avoid a deer that ran into the street and his back passenger fender hit my front driver fender. Not once did anyone even look at the GVWR of my truck or trailer weight. All they looked at was who was at fault.

My company also has an insurance subsidiary for medium-heavy duty fleets. We do not look at GVWR's as a reason to void any claims other than to ensure that the combined GVWR of the truck and trailer are not over 26k. If so, then a CDL is required if the truck has a GVWR over 10k. If it doesn't have a GVWR over 10k then a CDL is not required. The main thing we look at is GAWR's. That is also what the law looks at when they make their traffic laws hence the reason why state axle weight limits and not GVWR limits on roads and bridges.

For example, take a look at this link showing the various truck weight limit laws in each state. You will not find any mention of GVWR in the whole thing since on-highway laws are based on axle weights, not GVWR. This myth that the manufacturer's GVWR holds any legal ramifications is perpetuated by people who are ignorant of the laws and are only stating what they think happens without knowing firsthand

Compilation of Existing State Truck Size and Weight Limit Laws
 
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Sandevino

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My insurance carrier doesn't even know the GVWR of any of my vehicles let alone deny a claim due to me being over my GVWR. They go by whose fault the accident was. When I was in a small fender-bender in my truck towing 14k trailer, I was over my truck's GVWR. A car swerved out of his lane in front of me to avoid a deer that ran into the street and his back passenger fender hit my front driver fender. Not once did anyone even look at the GVWR of my truck or trailer weight. All they looked at was who was at fault.

My company also has an insurance subsidiary for medium-heavy duty fleets. We do not look at GVWR's as a reason to void any claims other than to ensure that the combined GVWR of the truck and trailer are not over 26k. After that, a CDL has required IF the truck has a GVWR over 10k. If it doesn't have a GVWR over 10k then a CDL is not required. The main thing we look at is GAWR's. That is also what the law looks at when they make their traffic laws hence the reason why state axle weight limits and not GVWR limits on roads and bridges.

For example, take a look at this link showing the various truck weight limit laws in each state. You will not find any mention of GVWR in the whole thing since on-highway laws are based on axle weights, not GVWR. This myth that the manufacturer's GVWR holds any legal ramifications is perpetuated by people who are ignorant of the laws and are only stating what they think happens without knowing first hand

Compilation of Existing State Truck Size and Weight Limit Laws
All valid points and you are correct, non-CDL insurance carriers do not look at GVWR when writing policies. It is assumed that any non-commercial vehicle sold in the U.S. market is under the 26,001 pound GVWR limit. Same goes for fleet sales and insurance on HD vehicles. Commercial (26,001 pounds plus) operating weight and non-commercial licensing is the point I’m focusing on. I’d wager anyone with a 2500 or 3500 operating a rig with a combined weight over 26,001 pounds does not hold a commercial drivers ‘ operators license.

For example, my fleet of Ram 4500 / 5500 heavy truck service vehicles have base GVWR ratings under 26,001 pounds from the factory. When equipped and in the field, most are 28-30,000 pounds and I REQUIRE commercial operator licenses for my drivers.

If you cause an accident, are over weight and do not have a commercial license, you can / will be cited and fined for every pound you are over weight.

We can agree to disagree beyond this point but I trust my legal team and follow their advice to ensure I operate legally. I encourage you to research the weight and operational requirements in your area or anywhere you intend to travel.
 

SouthTexan

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All valid points and you are correct, non-CDL insurance carriers do not look at GVWR when writing policies. It is assumed that any non-commercial vehicle sold in the U.S. market is under the 26,001 pound GVWR limit. Same goes for fleet sales and insurance on HD vehicles. Commercial (26,001 pounds plus) operating weight and non-commercial licensing is the point I’m focusing on. I’d wager anyone with a 2500 or 3500 operating a rig with a combined weight over 26,001 pounds does not hold a commercial drivers ‘ operators license.

For example, my fleet of Ram 4500 / 5500 heavy truck service vehicles have base GVWR ratings under 26,001 pounds from the factory. When equipped and in the field, most are 28-30,000 pounds and I REQUIRE commercial operator licenses for my drivers.

If you cause an accident, are over weight and do not have a commercial license, you can / will be cited and fined for every pound you are over weight.

We can agree to disagree beyond this point but I trust my legal team and follow their advice to ensure I operate legally. I encourage you to research the weight and operational requirements in your area or anywhere you intend to travel.


The fine is Texas for a non-commercial vehicle operating over their registered GVWR(not to be confused with the manufacturers GVWR) is that you have to pay for the registration of the GVWR you got caught with every year that you had the vehicle and from that point on every time you register that vehicle. The manufacturer's GVWR means nothing and it is only the GVWR that you register your truck for which can be higher than the manufacturer's GVWR.

In regards to 26,000 lbs, many states have a CDL requirement if the combined GCWR of both the truck and trailer is over 26k and the tow vehicle has a GVWR over 10k. Ironically, based on the verbiage in many states, if the tow vehicle has a GVWR below 10k, then no CDL is required. So in this instance, a 2500 driver with a GVWR below 10k will not need a CDL to tow a 20k GVWR trailer(even if the actual weight being towed is only 10k), but a 3500 driver with a GVWR over 10k would since his higher GVWR puts him over 26k GCWR of the truck and trailer.

This is one of the reasons why Ford offers to de-rate their F350 to a 10k GVWR since there are a lot more laws fleets have to abide by once you get past 10k. Instead of offering customers a derated 3500 options, Ram just offers a 2500 with specs just a hair lower than the 3500 for customers who want close the same capability, but do not want have to deal with the added CDL requirement and tax/registration fees.

For example, the only difference between my 2500 diesel and a 3500 diesel is my rear suspension which is only 500 lbs less in its axle load rating. Everything else on the truck is identical. However, due to truck class limits and the laws stated above, the 2500 is capped out at 10k while the class the 3500 has more wiggle room maxing out at 14k which allows Ram to give the SRW 3500 an additional 2k GVWR even though there is only 500 lbs that separate the axle ratings.

Ironically my rear axle rating is only 200 lbs less than my brother's old 2012 F350 while my front axle rating was 500 lbs more yet he had an 11.5k GVWR since it is a class 3 truck. Not to mention he stated that his current 2500 CTD tows his RV better than his old F350 did with more stability and a lot less sway. Yet the weight police would chastise him for not being safe while towing with his 2500, but not F350 without even looking at the specs all because it has a 2 on the name and not a 3.

The same goes for my Father-in-law's old F350 which had a GVWR of 10k like almost all SRW 350/3500 trucks did 15 years ago. He never once got called out by the weight police since he had a 3 on his door even though his GVWR was 10k just like mine, yet I did when I towed his trailer simply because I had a 2 on my door. I even had higher front/rear axle ratings than he did, larger brakes, an exhaust brake, a rear sway bar, a stronger frame, electronic trailer stability control, and so on.
 
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GsRAM

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$80K for 2016? Surely that is a typo.

I owned a first year (2001) Duramax/Allison in a 3/4 ton. Great truck. The reasons I went Cummins for my 18 was GM HD pickups are at the very bottom of the reliability ratings the last few years, and the Cummins in our diesel pusher has been great to us.
He said someone was selling the 2016 Chevy dually PLUS a 5th wheel for 80k. Combo deal
 

jejb

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Ah, that makes more sense. When he said 5th wheel, I assumed he meant the hitch, not an entire RV.
 
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Andrew1177

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So I thought I had found a truck it's a 2015 3500 dualy with the ** cummings and the aisin transmission with 110000 miles on it but was just told it has been deleted and being in California not sure if that would be the right move. Any thoughts or opinions?
 

jejb

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Do they do the yearly inspection on 1 tons in Kalifornia? If they do, a deleted truck is going to fail.

BTW, there is no "g" in Cummins.
 

mtnrider

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So I thought I had found a truck it's a 2015 3500 dualy with the ** cummings and the aisin transmission with 110000 miles on it but was just told it has been deleted and being in California not sure if that would be the right move. Any thoughts or opinions?

Bad move, you will never get it registered. And now I hear they are even going to start scanning the ECU for tunes so it will be more difficult. And I'm not a fan of buying a deleted/tuned truck any way. Too many unknowns.

.
 

Gr8bawana

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So I thought I had found a truck it's a 2015 3500 dualy with the ** cummings and the aisin transmission with 110000 miles on it but was just told it has been deleted and being in California not sure if that would be the right move. Any thoughts or opinions?
NOPE-NOPE-NOPE-NOPE--NONONONONONOOO.jpg
 

68PowerWagon

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Do they do the yearly inspection on 1 tons in Kalifornia? If they do, a deleted truck is going to fail.

BTW, there is no "g" in Cummins.
There is a "G" if I am with my lady!:laughing1:
 
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