Catastrophic ECU/PCM and/or infotainment system crash--what to do?

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Lamarsh

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My 2020 Ram is experiencing what seems to be some kind of computer system crash where my entire infotainment system goes black and goes through a nonstop series of rebooting then crashing, and while this is occurring various random things don't work, such as my front driver and passenger windows (but backseat windows work), AC doesn't work, etc.

This started a few weeks ago when, out of nowhere, I got a message on the console behind my steering wheel showed a message saying "Blind Spot Alert Unavailable Service Required". While this warning was on, my blind spot alert indeed did not work. I got to where I was going, turned my truck off, and when I got back to my truck to drive it again the message was gone and blind spot alert was working. Then, a few weeks later, this past weekend, I was driving and the message came back, except this time it was followed by the whole computer / infotainment system crash and all the random things in my truck not working. During the crash occurring, where the infotainment system just constantly crashed then rebooted, that same "Blind Spot Alert Unavailable Service Required" message continuously kept coming and going. I performed a full vehicle reset by disconnecting my battery's negative terminal and reconnected. This actually rectified the issue, but only for 48 hours, and now it's doing it again.

Just wondering if anybody has experienced similar issues and has some input.

I thought of trying to check what software is on my infotainment system and to see if I need an update, but I don't know how to check what software is on there, and I also don't know how to get the most current form in a manner to download it directly from a flash drive rather than have to rely on the over the air updates. If anybody has ideas on how I can do that not over the air with a flash drive, I would greatly appreciate your input on how to do that.

Thanks! (Truck is out of warranty, FYI)

FWIW: AlphaOBD indicated it is throwing the following codes:

U0010 (fault in can interior bus)
U0011 (can communication interior bus performance)
U0164 (lost connection with HVAC code)
U0200 (lost communication with door control module)

After clearing the codes, the only one that comes back immediately is U0010.
 
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Lamarsh

Lamarsh

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Have your battery load tested , with all the electronics in these trucks one that is not up to par can cause issues just like this. Is it the original battery?

Thanks! Is that something that AlphaOBD can do, or is that something I'd have to get done at a battery store or other store that has battery diagnostic tools?

FYI, AlphaOBD indicated it is throwing the following codes:

U0010
U0011
U0164
U0200

After clearing the codes, the only one that comes back immediately is U0010.
 

Daw14

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Most auto parts stores will preform the test for you . What’s the meaning of the codes ?
 

Wild one

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Thanks! Is that something that AlphaOBD can do, or is that something I'd have to get done at a battery store or other store that has battery diagnostic tools?

FYI, AlphaOBD indicated it is throwing the following codes:

U0010
U0011
U0164
U0200

After clearing the codes, the only one that comes back immediately is U0010.
Spend $20 and get one of these ,and test the battery yourself. They're still one of the best load testers available for a home mechanic.Very simple to use,hook up the 2 battery clamps to their respective battery posts,hold the switch for roughly 10 seconds,and read how good your battery is.

 
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Lamarsh

Lamarsh

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Most auto parts stores will preform the test for you . What’s the meaning of the codes ?

I don't know enough about codes to fully understand this, but this is what I found online regarding the codes it threw:

U0010 (fault in can interior bus)
U0011 (can communication interior bus performance)
U0164 (lost connection with HVAC code)
U0200 (lost communication with door control module)

After clearing the codes, the only one that comes back immediately is U0010
 
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Lamarsh

Lamarsh

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Have your battery load tested , with all the electronics in these trucks one that is not up to par can cause issues just like this. Is it the original battery?
Spend $20 and get one of these ,and test the battery yourself.

I appreciate the suggestion. Just had my battery load tested and it was normal. The catastrophic shutdown and restart issues appear to be dormant right now, but my AC still goes in and out of working. I'll have to check the codes again tonight to see if it's throwing those other 3 codes again aside from U0010, which comes back up right away after clearing all codes.

Any other suggestions to trouble shoot this is greatly appreciated!
 

Wild one

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I appreciate the suggestion. Just had my battery load tested and it was normal. The catastrophic shutdown and restart issues appear to be dormant right now, but my AC still goes in and out of working. I'll have to check the codes again tonight to see if it's throwing those other 3 codes again aside from U0010, which comes back up right away after clearing all codes.

Any other suggestions to trouble shoot this is greatly appreciated!
If they used a digital load tester to test the battery,i wouldn't trust their findings as far as i could throw the guy doing the load test. I fought the local dealer on a bad battery on a brand new vehicle a couple years ago,their fancy/dancy high dollar digital tester showed the battery as being good,but if i left a door open for 15 minutes,the battery wouldn't start the vehicle,as soon as i tested it with my old toaster battery tester,the battery failed,after going around with the dealer on a vehicle that was only a month old,i took my old school tester over,and we did back to back tests on the battery ,and their fancy digital tester passed the battery,but as soon as i hooked up my old school tester,the battery failed,they finally admitted their was an issue with the battery and replaced it under warrenty.The shop manager even admitted he wasn't a fan of the new digital tester he was forced to use,and still preferred the old school toaster style testers.Spend the 20 bucks and buy yourself the one from Harbour Freight,it'll save you well over 20 bucks worth of headaches,and you'll probably be surprised at how often you'll use it.
 

audiowize

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You need a real expert to debug your canbus network to figure out why this is happening. You could have a broken wire, a chafed wire that's grounding out, or a device on the canbus network that's acting up and crashing everything.

It's very, very unlikely that you'll find someone competent enough to diagnose this at a dealership. If you're under warranty, I'd strongly recommend going down the lemon pathway if possible, or consider trading the truck.
 

Frisk

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Something is brining your Canbus down (the vehicle's internal network). If you have an scope you can check the wave form......a normal wave form should have nice square edges. If the wave form is very pointed ^^ then it is a good sign that a module or connection ont he network is bad. It's like it is screaming and the other modules can not talk. If you don't have a scope then you can unplug one module at a time. When you find the offending module/connector and unplug it you should find that everything else works good. Given you had a code for the door module I would start with a close inspection of the wiring harness where it goes from the body to the door. Any broken wires, cracked insulation, green crusty etc. A good wiring diagram can also help as many modules with share a common ground connection etc. It can be a pain to track down but most times the repair is super cheap (just some wire and heat shrink etc).

Eric O at Souith Main Auto has a good video that walks through the diag and repair (its on a Buick but the steps are the same)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDlQQ-XFgec&t=1909s
 
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Lamarsh

Lamarsh

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If they used a digital load tester to test the battery,i wouldn't trust their findings as far as i could throw the guy doing the load test. I fought the local dealer on a bad battery on a brand new vehicle a couple years ago,their fancy/dancy high dollar digital tester showed the battery as being good,but if i left a door open for 15 minutes,the battery wouldn't start the vehicle,as soon as i tested it with my old toaster battery tester,the battery failed,after going around with the dealer on a vehicle that was only a month old,i took my old school tester over,and we did back to back tests on the battery ,and their fancy digital tester passed the battery,but as soon as i hooked up my old school tester,the battery failed,they finally admitted their was an issue with the battery and replaced it under warrenty.The shop manager even admitted he wasn't a fan of the new digital tester he was forced to use,and still preferred the old school toaster style testers.Spend the 20 bucks and buy yourself the one from Harbour Freight,it'll save you well over 20 bucks worth of headaches,and you'll probably be surprised at how often you'll use it.

Thank you, I'll give it a shot. I do have an analog style multimeter. Would that work? It's supposed to be able to test batteries, but I'm not sure how to use it correctly for that.

You need a real expert to debug your canbus network to figure out why this is happening. You could have a broken wire, a chafed wire that's grounding out, or a device on the canbus network that's acting up and crashing everything.

It's very, very unlikely that you'll find someone competent enough to diagnose this at a dealership. If you're under warranty, I'd strongly recommend going down the lemon pathway if possible, or consider trading the truck.

Something is brining your Canbus down (the vehicle's internal network). If you have an scope you can check the wave form......a normal wave form should have nice square edges. If the wave form is very pointed ^^ then it is a good sign that a module or connection ont he network is bad. It's like it is screaming and the other modules can not talk. If you don't have a scope then you can unplug one module at a time. When you find the offending module/connector and unplug it you should find that everything else works good. Given you had a code for the door module I would start with a close inspection of the wiring harness where it goes from the body to the door. Any broken wires, cracked insulation, green crusty etc. A good wiring diagram can also help as many modules with share a common ground connection etc. It can be a pain to track down but most times the repair is super cheap (just some wire and heat shrink etc).

Eric O at Souith Main Auto has a good video that walks through the diag and repair (its on a Buick but the steps are the same)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDlQQ-XFgec&t=1909s

I think you guys are likely right, it sure sounds like it, and the codes suggest it as well. Let me give an update though. Since pulling the negative battery terminal about 10 days ago, it has mostly fixed the issue. About 1/10 times I drive, the AC does not work. And every once in a while, about 1/5 times while driving, that "Blind Spot Alert Unavailable Service Required" message pops up and then my infotainment system crashes for about 20 seconds, then everything comes back to normal. This now seems like how my vehicle is operating consistently, so it's sort of fine to live with, which I may have no choice over since at this point it won't replicate itself frequently and consistently enough to take it to a mechanic and expect them to notice the issue (unless you're right on the wave form test).
 

RamDiver

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Thank you, I'll give it a shot. I do have an analog style multimeter. Would that work? It's supposed to be able to test batteries, but I'm not sure how to use it correctly for that.





I think you guys are likely right, it sure sounds like it, and the codes suggest it as well. Let me give an update though. Since pulling the negative battery terminal about 10 days ago, it has mostly fixed the issue. About 1/10 times I drive, the AC does not work. And every once in a while, about 1/5 times while driving, that "Blind Spot Alert Unavailable Service Required" message pops up and then my infotainment system crashes for about 20 seconds, then everything comes back to normal. This now seems like how my vehicle is operating consistently, so it's sort of fine to live with, which I may have no choice over since at this point it won't replicate itself frequently and consistently enough to take it to a mechanic and expect them to notice the issue (unless you're right on the wave form test).

Does your remote start function consistently?

The only valid battery load-related test using a multimeter would be to capture the lowest voltage during a starting operation. Only the medium to high-end meters can capture peak highs & lows, AFAIK.

To determine how low the voltage drops, have a volunteer hold the multimeter on the battery terminals while starting with the multimeter configured to capture the peak low voltage.

With a digital multimeter, you most likely won't be able to watch the display, it requires to have the peak capture feature.

Most multimeters sample to slowly to display fast transitions.

As previously mentioned, a digital type of battery load tester is very unreliable because of how they extrapolate the results.

For $20, I'd just buy a toaster-style load tester from HarbourFreight, if I didn't already own 2 of them. :cool:

.
 
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3CUMMINS

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My son also had a 2020 but a 3/4 t diesel.
His electronics acted up and it seemed to take forever for the mechanics, note NOT electronics techs, to find a broken wire somewhere in the mess.
He had several other electronics meltdowns not caused by the broken wire previously.
He works for a RR and gets a 2 hour call to be at work at any hour of the day. He has a 40 min drive
There were a few times where my winter driver, a 2008 Ranger 4WD, made speedy 40 km trips to his house to give him the keys. I waited for my ride when he woke up and found no coffee.
Solution? Buh bye 2020 and hello 2005 1 T dually diesel.
He loves electronics but not in anything that needs to be reliable or mobile.
He had a warranty for the electronics but if you don't know how it works and rely solely on a manual or online blurb that may or may not show enough detail to determine and fix the problem, it becomes a tedious and frustration process for the person working on this, I would imagine.
 
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Lamarsh

Lamarsh

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Does your remote start function consistently?

The only valid battery load-related test using a multimeter would be to capture the lowest voltage during a starting operation. Only the medium to high-end meters can capture peak highs & lows, AFAIK.

Have a volunteer hold the multimeter on the battery terminal while staring, to determine how low the voltage drops.

With a digital multimeter, you most likely won't be able to watch the display, it needs the peak capture feature.

As previously mentioned, a digital type of battery load tester is very unreliable because of how they extrapolate the results.

For $20, I'd just buy a toaster-style load tester from HarbourFreight, if I didn't already own 2 of them. :cool:

.

My son also had a 2020 but a 3/4 t diesel.
His electronics acted up and it seemed to take forever for the mechanics, note NOT electronics techs, to find a broken wire somewhere in the mess.
He had several other electronics meltdowns not caused by the broken wire previously.
He works for a RR and gets a 2 hour call to be at work at any hour of the day. He has a 40 min drive
There were a few times where my winter driver, a 2008 Ranger 4WD, made speedy 40 km trips to his house to give him the keys. I waited for my ride when he woke up and found no coffee.
Solution? Buh bye 2020 and hello 2005 1 T dually diesel.
He loves electronics but not in anything that needs to be reliable or mobile.
He had a warranty for the electronics but if you don't know how it works and rely solely on a manual or online blurb that may or may not show enough detail to determine and fix the problem, it becomes a tedious and frustration process for the person working on this, I would imagine.

Thanks guys. My battery still has a warranty, so I'm going to try to test it on a start up using an analogue multimeter to check lowest voltage while starting. Once I have that though, I'm not sure what voltage would indicate something is wrong?
 
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Lamarsh

Lamarsh

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UPDATE: Things were ok for about 10-12 days after full reset by pulling negative battery terminal. Today, it went back into full breakdown--first got that message about the blind spot awareness warning, then infotainment crashed, no air conditioning, windows don't work. I pulled negative terminal again, but this time it not only did nothing, but now my backup cam will not work and my passenger side mirror button retract will not work.

Codes thrown now are:

U0010
U0200
U0199
U0164
U0232
U0184
U0011

Cleared all fault codes, and again all cleared but U0010. Clearing the codes did nothing, problems still present.

If I want to check the wiring in the can bus system for loose or disconnected wires, where would I find that? Just trying to troubleshoot as best I can before throwing my chips in to the dealership.

Thanks again guys.
 

Hardracer

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If that battery seems to check out I think I would be leaning towards having the BCM itself tested.
The intermittent part is what's getting me.seems like to me it would work or it wouldnt.but I'm no tech mechanic by any means.
Failing BCM would be my luck.
 

RamDiver

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UPDATE: Things were ok for about 10-12 days after full reset by pulling negative battery terminal. Today, it went back into full breakdown--first got that message about the blind spot awareness warning, then infotainment crashed, no air conditioning, windows don't work. I pulled negative terminal again, but this time it not only did nothing, but now my backup cam will not work and my passenger side mirror button retract will not work.

Codes thrown now are:

U0010
U0200
U0199
U0164
U0232
U0184
U0011

Cleared all fault codes, and again all cleared but U0010. Clearing the codes did nothing, problems still present.

If I want to check the wiring in the can bus system for loose or disconnected wires, where would I find that? Just trying to troubleshoot as best I can before throwing my chips in to the dealership.

Thanks again guys.


All of this data is completely useless and irrelevant until a proper battery load test has been completed.

In other words, a failing cell in a battery may cause all of these issues.

Also, a toaster-style battery load tester is the correct instrument for this test, anything else, including a multimeter (analogue or a DMM) or a digital battery load tester will likely produce unreliable results.

.
 
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Lamarsh

Lamarsh

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If that battery seems to check out I think I would be leaning towards having the BCM itself tested.
The intermittent part is what's getting me.seems like to me it would work or it wouldnt.but I'm no tech mechanic by any means.
Failing BCM would be my luck.

How can I go about having my BCM tested?

It's no longer really intermittent. The infotainment screen comes on when I turn the truck on, but crashes within a minute, and either stays off the whole time or goes through a series of crashing and rebooting for a bit, then stays off. The HVAC, driver/passenger side windows, and bunch of other items will not work anymore (at first they worked on and off, now nothing at all).
 

Atcer2018

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Add me as another commenter suggesting a charging system test. Typically a battery has 12.5 volts with the engine off. Start it up and you’ll typically see mid 14V. A load test will check the battery and alternator output. It is essential that you have the proper voltage for the electronics to operate properly. A slight drop in voltage will cause random faults and wacky operation on the various systems.

The other posters suggesting the old school load testers are on to something. If you search why analog testers have an advantage the first thing you’ll find is digital testers do not measure fluctuations as well as the old fashioned analog type. Fluctuations are what you are looking for.

If you throw in the towel and take your truck to an automotive electrical shop the first thing they will do is test the battery/charging system. It’s the very first step in diagnosing the problem. Many folks will dismiss the battery because it still starts the truck or it’s only two years old. Batteries fail even when brand new and a 11V battery will start the truck most of the time. If your present battery is still under warranty it pays to test it old school and use the warranty before going down a potentially expensive rabbit hole.
 

Hardracer

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How can I go about having my BCM tested?

It's no longer really intermittent. The infotainment screen comes on when I turn the truck on, but crashes within a minute, and either stays off the whole time or goes through a series of crashing and rebooting for a bit, then stays off. The HVAC, driver/passenger side windows, and bunch of other items will not work anymore (at first they worked on and off, now nothing at all).
I had the issues as you described with the windows...like u said fronts didn't work backs did,along with my radio doing weird stuff....so I started searching came across things from this and another forum.
Found out all of that stuff is/goes through the bcm,rears work due to something about it being wired directly and not through the bcm if I remember right.others can chime in on this as I only know what pertains to me.
Your codes said it lost communication with a few items.
I read online somewhere the dealer has equipment to test it..true or not I don't know.
You stated disconnecting the battery and things worked for awhile then started failing again(intermittent) ,reason I said that.
My radio has the phantom screen station changing every once in awhile now...truck to old to me so im not fixing it.Unless someone on here has an easy cheap fix???
I'm certainly no tech/mechanic on this newer stuff,just throwing things out there for you to check or have checked,theres fellas on here way more knowledgeable than I about all this stuff but short of the vehicle sitting in front of them with equiptment/scanners and whatnot hooked up is difficult to diagnose sometimes.
I hope you get it sorted out and let us know the fix.
 
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