Cummins $1.6 billion dollar fine!!!

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

nlambert182

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2022
Posts
991
Reaction score
1,436
Location
Huntsville, AL
Ram Year
2018
Engine
6.7 Cummins
It was a question specifically for him, to lead him to debunk his own claims.
I know exactly how all that works, and I have a pretty good idea of how everything went down, what it most likely was that they found, and what the recall is doing.
I'd like some clarification on this as well. Not saying you're wrong... I'm curious to hear your take on it.
 

ramffml

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2019
Posts
2,986
Reaction score
5,698
Location
ramforum
Ram Year
2019
Engine
hemi 5.7
My claim is that manufacturers are unable to meet the CAFE standards.

Do you believe that the manufacturers are achieving these standards??

I haven't been following this all that closely as I'm a gas guy right now, but there is a major difference between having to pay carbon credits (like with the hemi and other diesels) vs cheating the system and getting caught. Did cummins cheat? I don't know, but that's the issue in this case, it's not about paying tesla carbon credits its about lying and providing false information to the EPA.
 

Timsdually

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Posts
617
Reaction score
410
Location
Jersey
Ram Year
2020
Engine
Cummins
The point is that a simple program change is fixing this recall.
Cummins isn't pulling engines and replacing heads with redesigned ones to meet the standards.
 

RamDiver

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2022
Posts
2,480
Reaction score
4,339
Location
Marlborough, Ontario, Canada
Ram Year
2021
Engine
Hemi 5.7
The point is that a simple program change is fixing this recall.
Cummins isn't pulling engines and replacing heads with redesigned ones to meet the standards.

I would say that changing settings on an ECU is not that different than changing parts.

The automotive industry is now very computer-literate and far more technically advanced than when we bought our first vehicles. At least my first one in the 70s.

The computers work in concert with the physical parts.

.
 

mtnrider

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Posts
3,234
Reaction score
3,579
Location
Georgia
Ram Year
2016
Engine
6.7 Cummins
The point is that a simple program change is fixing this recall.
Cummins isn't pulling engines and replacing heads with redesigned ones to meet the standards.

Absolutely, jimmy usually has some "insider" information so I'm curious as to what he knows... Inquiring minds want to know Lol.
 

Timsdually

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Posts
617
Reaction score
410
Location
Jersey
Ram Year
2020
Engine
Cummins
I would say that changing settings on an ECU is not that different than changing parts.

The automotive industry is now very computer-literate and far more technically advanced than when we bought our first vehicles. At least my first one in the 70s.

The computers work in concert with the physical parts.

.
I would be more than happy to let them tweak some computer settings than to let open up my engine.
 

RamDiver

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2022
Posts
2,480
Reaction score
4,339
Location
Marlborough, Ontario, Canada
Ram Year
2021
Engine
Hemi 5.7
I would be more than happy to let them tweak some computer settings than to let open up my engine.

You're much easier going than I am.

I have a gasser and don't think I have a horse in this race unless they start tweaking hemis.

I support the green machine but not to the point of stupidity. I wouldn't want to have my hemi tweaked and would certainly be concerned if I owned a Cummins.

.
 

nlambert182

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2022
Posts
991
Reaction score
1,436
Location
Huntsville, AL
Ram Year
2018
Engine
6.7 Cummins
You're much easier going than I am.

I have a gasser and don't think I have a horse in this race unless they start tweaking hemis.

I support the green machine but not to the point of stupidity. I wouldn't want to have my hemi tweaked and would certainly be concerned if I owned a Cummins.

.
Zero concern here. They won't be touching mine. :)
 

haleme

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Posts
147
Reaction score
180
Location
VA
Ram Year
2018
Engine
6.4
Reading this entire thread and watching a few videos on the issue, it raises more questions than it answers. But, I have more concerns and fears the unelected 4th branch of government is way overstepping here. I have the 6.4, so things like this don't impact me. for now....

A few things that have caught my attention:
Going back and looking at vehicles manufactured over 10 years ago is absurd. Think your 60's muscle car is still safe? Think again!
What did Ram engineers and executives know? I don't accept the "we just bought the engine and emissions from Cummings," and they are absolved of any missteps.
Updating 10 year old trucks appears to be an undue burden on the consumer. If there is a power rob and if it is significant (I know people will be doing dynos before and after to see the affect), what will be the compensation or buy back for the consumer? Another round of VW buy backs or cash for clunkers.
Last, I bet Ford and GM are also in the crosshairs for the same. I simply can't see how any diesel manufacture is immune. Show me the person and I will show you the crime.

The $1.7B penalty will ultimately go over $2B in total write offs for Cummings and could drive the company into chapter 11.
But since Cummings has settled with the EPA, this is a mostly closed case. No appeal, no take backs, no redo's. While the $1.7B fine is excessive, I suppose it was better than the alternative of folding shop at Christmas.
 

chopperdog45

Senior Member
Military
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Posts
134
Reaction score
158
Location
GA
Ram Year
2022
Engine
CTD 6.7
The $1.7B penalty will ultimately go over $2B in total write offs for Cummings and could drive the company into chapter 11.
Apparently not. Cummins has said the charge "is significant but is not expected to impact normal business operations." They apparently have some very deep pockets.
 

Timsdually

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Posts
617
Reaction score
410
Location
Jersey
Ram Year
2020
Engine
Cummins
Apparently not. Cummins has said the charge "is significant but is not expected to impact normal business operations." They apparently have some very deep pockets.
Headquartered in Columbus, Indiana, Cummins sells in approximately 190 countries and territories through a network of more than 600 company-owned and independent distributors and approximately 7,200 dealers. Cummins reported a net income of $2.15 billion on sales of $28 billion in 2022.
 

haleme

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Posts
147
Reaction score
180
Location
VA
Ram Year
2018
Engine
6.4
Apparently not. Cummins has said the charge "is significant but is not expected to impact normal business operations." They apparently have some very deep pockets.
Corporate execs are like politicians. You know they are lying when their mouths are moving.

Normal business operations will include lay offs, internal reorganization that make entire departments redundant and directional shifts in the corporate values and OGSMs. Individual contributors and middle management will most like see significantly reduced bonuses in the coming year, but Lord forbid the executive compensation be touched.
 

06 Dodge

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2022
Posts
1,966
Reaction score
1,868
Location
Forest Grove, Oregon
Ram Year
2022
Engine
6.7L CTD
My claim is that manufacturers are unable to meet the CAFE standards.

Do you believe that the manufacturers are achieving these standards??
To the best of my knowledge Cummins diesel powered trucks do not have a CAFE standards, but they do have emissions standards thus the BS 67A recall due to the state of CA who hates all ICE, who then one day woke up and was unhappy to find out that a diesel engine will put out a bit more Nox when cold compared to a hot engine and most likely even more so when using the state of CA reformulated diesel fuel...
 

ramffml

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2019
Posts
2,986
Reaction score
5,698
Location
ramforum
Ram Year
2019
Engine
hemi 5.7
Reading this entire thread and watching a few videos on the issue, it raises more questions than it answers. But, I have more concerns and fears the unelected 4th branch of government is way overstepping here. I have the 6.4, so things like this don't impact me. for now....

A few things that have caught my attention:
Going back and looking at vehicles manufactured over 10 years ago is absurd. Think your 60's muscle car is still safe? Think again!
What did Ram engineers and executives know? I don't accept the "we just bought the engine and emissions from Cummings," and they are absolved of any missteps.
Updating 10 year old trucks appears to be an undue burden on the consumer. If there is a power rob and if it is significant (I know people will be doing dynos before and after to see the affect), what will be the compensation or buy back for the consumer? Another round of VW buy backs or cash for clunkers.
Last, I bet Ford and GM are also in the crosshairs for the same. I simply can't see how any diesel manufacture is immune. Show me the person and I will show you the crime.

The $1.7B penalty will ultimately go over $2B in total write offs for Cummings and could drive the company into chapter 11.
But since Cummings has settled with the EPA, this is a mostly closed case. No appeal, no take backs, no redo's. While the $1.7B fine is excessive, I suppose it was better than the alternative of folding shop at Christmas.

"Cummins", not "Cummings". "Cumm|ng" is what happens during extra special activities with your wife!
 

svanarts

Junior Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2023
Posts
13
Reaction score
4
Location
Modesto
Ram Year
2012
If it was in the dealer it was probably done the same time.
Just checked and the only recall done was the turn signal, B2A (Steering Column Control Module). If they did anything else it was without any documentation.

Fingers crossed.
 

18CrewDually

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Posts
2,109
Reaction score
2,717
Location
U.S.- New Jersey
Ram Year
2018
Engine
Cummins 6.7 H.O.
Just checked and the only recall done was the turn signal, B2A (Steering Column Control Module). If they did anything else it was without any documentation.

Fingers crossed.
Yeah, hopefully you just missed the roll out.
 
Top