Curb weight and GVWR

[geekything]

So, I took my new 2018 Laramie ecoDiesel to the local CAT scale. I weighed it, my eyes watered and I found out I'm going to be towing RIGHT at my GVWR. But I figure that as long as I don't go past GVWR, I'm fine.

Now, what was interesting was the truck weighed 50lbs more than the curb weight as calculated as GVWR - sticker payload. What's even scarier is the tank was only 66-75% full.

I have pretty much nothing in the truck apart from some used Tim Horton's coffee cups.

I thought curb weight was supposed to include all fluids including a fuel tank of gas (or diesel in my case)?

Which sticker applies here? The payload sticker or the GVWR sticker given they conflict by 50lbs+?

 

[Don_T]

What really matters is the GVW. According to the factory you aren’t supposed to go over it. The best way to figure out your real payload rating is to do what you did, weigh it then subtract the actual weight from the GVW and you have the actual payload. I did the same with my 3500 when it was new and the actual payload is about 200 pounds less than the door sticker says it is. All this is going by the factory ratings. Others will tell you they don’t mean anything as long as you don’t go over the axle and tire rating.

 

[geekything]

What really matters is the GVW. According to the factory you aren’t supposed to go over it. The best way to figure out your real payload rating is to do what you did, weigh it then subtract the actual weight from the GVW and you have the actual payload. I did the same with my 3500 when it was new and the actual payload is about 200 pounds less than the door sticker says it is. All this is going by the factory ratings. Others will tell you they don’t mean anything as long as you don’t go over the axle and tire rating.

Your mean GVWR when you say GVW, right?

Any thoughts on towing within like 30lbs of GVWR? The real challenge with this truck is the measly payload (diesel + Laramie). I can tow lots IF I don't put my family in it

 

[mtofell]

Tire load rating (on the sidewalls) and axle weights (referred to as FAWR & RAWR on your door sticker) are the most important. What are those numbers and how do you stack up?

 

[geekything]

Tire load rating (on the sidewalls) and axle weights (referred to as FAWR & RAWR on your door sticker) are the most important. What are those numbers and how do you stack up?

My front axle is showing 3500lbs and my rear is in the 2300lbs. The trailer has ~400lbs of tongue weight and I was already sitting in the cab to get that 3500lbs (200lbs). My wife is 140lbs, my son 55lbs, and my dog 35lbs. No other cargo will be in the truck. I believe I'll still be fine with the front axle and the rear axle obviously has lots of room to travel (up to GVWR, of course).

My tires are stock Wrangler's and are rated at 2601lbs each. Significantly above the axle rating.

 

[BruceMorgan]

Any thoughts on towing within like 30lbs of GVWR? The real challenge with this truck is the measly payload (diesel + Laramie). I can tow lots IF I don't put my family in it

Yeah, it's no fun. I did that with my previous truck (a Frontier) and found that towing at the limits is much more a white knuckle affair. The tail is wagging the dog, there is a lot of bounce (which you may settle down with helper bags, but there goes ride quality). I found it very stressful. That's why I bought my Ram. I looked at every truck around (all makes), and the Ram 1500 QC had a significantly larger payload capacity (400 lbs more than the Frontier). It tows our 25' trailer with ease and no stress at all on me.

There are people around here who are tow all the time at max payload / max GVWR or a bit above. Most of people don't want to go past 80% max payload / GVWR. (Max Payload == GVWR - actual weight), so you can compare actual payload to max payload, or compare actual weight to GVWR).

The plain truth of the matter is that 1500 is a very capable truck within its limits, but the limits are not as high as people hope. By the time you've loaded you, your spouse, your 2 kids, your dog, all the equipment, and loaded up a trailer that's big enough for all that, you've now exceeded what a 1500 can do. When I walk the campgrounds, I find this to be very common:

1500: Smaller trailers, younger couples with small kids, older couples with grown kids
2500: Medium to medium large trailer or smaller fifth wheel, families with older kids (middle schoolers+)
3500: Large trailers, large fifth wheels, big families or maybe even extended families
3500 dually: Same at 3500, but those fifth wheels just have so much weight on the pin you need the extra rear axle GVWR

 

[Scottly]

All I know is that my 2500, when empty, doesn't have enough capacity to haul most of the women that contact me from the on-line dating service. It might be time for a dually, or I'll be single forever.

 

[geekything]

Yeah, it's no fun. I did that with my previous truck (a Frontier) and found that towing at the limits is much more a white knuckle affair. The tail is wagging the dog, there is a lot of bounce (which you may settle down with helper bags, but there goes ride quality). I found it very stressful. That's why I bought my Ram. I looked at every truck around (all makes), and the Ram 1500 QC had a significantly larger payload capacity (400 lbs more than the Frontier). It tows our 25' trailer with ease and no stress at all on me.

There are people around here who are tow all the time at max payload / max GVWR or a bit above. Most of people don't want to go past 80% max payload / GVWR. (Max Payload == GVWR - actual weight), so you can compare actual payload to max payload, or compare actual weight to GVWR).

The plain truth of the matter is that 1500 is a very capable truck within its limits, but the limits are not as high as people hope. By the time you've loaded you, your spouse, your 2 kids, your dog, all the equipment, and loaded up a trailer that's big enough for all that, you've now exceeded what a 1500 can do. When I walk the campgrounds, I find this to be very common:

1500: Smaller trailers, younger couples with small kids, older couples with grown kids
2500: Medium to medium large trailer or smaller fifth wheel, families with older kids (middle schoolers+)
3500: Large trailers, large fifth wheels, big families or maybe even extended families
3500 dually: Same at 3500, but those fifth wheels just have so much weight on the pin you need the extra rear axle GVWR

My trailer is 3000lbs loaded. It's not the trailer that's the problem, it's the wife, small child and young dog combined with the tongue weight which is over 10% -- I can't really control the tongue weight very much.

I don't doubt the truck can pull the trailer (21ft, aluminum) without incident. I just want to stay safe/legal.

 

[Hd74ica]

All I know is that my 2500, when empty, doesn't have enough capacity to haul most of the women that contact me from the on-line dating service. It might be time for a dually, or I'll be single forever.

Good grief man do the wimmen look like this?

 

[BruceMorgan]

My trailer is 3000lbs loaded. It's not the trailer that's the problem, it's the wife, small child and young dog combined with the tongue weight which is over 10% -- I can't really control the tongue weight very much.

I don't doubt the truck can pull the trailer (21ft, aluminum) without incident. I just want to stay safe/legal.

So what's the actual specs on your truck? 3.6 diesel, but cab type, axle ratio, box length?

When I look at the 2016 towing charts at https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/towing_guide/pdf/2016_ram_1500_towing_charts.pdf the lowest payload I find for a 3.6 diesel is around 1330 assuming 4x4 crew cab with 5.7 box. Even if your payload is 1280 lbs (50 lbs less per original post), you should be fine with your trailer.

3000 lb trailer is 400 lb tongue weight to be safe. That leaves you 880 lbs for you, wife, child, dog, gear, etc.

My Frontier had an 1100lb payload.

 

[crash68]

My trailer is 3000lbs loaded. It's not the trailer that's the problem, it's the wife, small child and young dog combined with the tongue weight which is over 10% -- I can't really control the tongue weight very much.

I don't doubt the truck can pull the trailer (21ft, aluminum) without incident. I just want to stay safe/legal.

Your way over thinking this for a 21' 3K trailer. You could get a WDH w/sway control, it's not really needed but might help you feel better. A set of helper airbags would probably be the more likely add on to help firm up the rear end.
I have a 17' fish/ski boat that on the trailer is a little over 3K fully wet. I barely notice it behind the truck, the same goes for the 24' enclosed (3K lbs also) which I do add a little air to my airbags. The 28' enclosed(8K loaded) does take the WDH to be dialed in along with the airbags, but the truck is stable and solid.
The biggest safety factor when towing any trailer with any truck is the person behind the steering wheel.

 

[Don_T]

Your mean GVWR when you say GVW, right?

Any thoughts on towing within like 30lbs of GVWR? The real challenge with this truck is the measly payload (diesel + Laramie). I can tow lots IF I don't put my family in it

Yes, sorry that was a typo. It is GVWR.

You can surely tow/haul at your max rated weight but on a 1500 you may not like driving it.

 

[billyw]

When we're loaded up for camping, we're almost always right at GVWR, maybe a little over. The truck is solid. Performs flawlessly. The rear springs are too soft in my opinion though. I upgraded them and am not looking back. My trailer is 6300 lbs with a little over 800 lb tongue weight. WD hitch balances it all out nicely.

I'm one of those that says GAWR and tire rating are the real important figures to pay attention to. And I'm well below both.

 

[geekything]

When we're loaded up for camping, we're almost always right at GVWR, maybe a little over. The truck is solid. Performs flawlessly. The rear springs are too soft in my opinion though. I upgraded them and am not looking back. My trailer is 6300 lbs with a little over 800 lb tongue weight. WD hitch balances it all out nicely.

I'm one of those that says GAWR and tire rating are the real important figures to pay attention to. And I'm well below both.

My tongue weight is only going to be 350-450lbs (350lbs most of the time). I'm hoping the stock suspension will be okay. I looked into getting airbags and they seem cheap and easy.

Thanks for the feedback about performing at GVWR with a camper. My camper is only 3000lbs (3400lbs wet), so it doesn't sound like it'll be a big deal for the ecoDiesel -- even though the truck itself is heavy.

 

[geekything]

As an update: I've re-done all the math from the weigh-in at the CAT scale and accounting for how full my fuel tank was.

There is a 96lb discrepancy between the payload sticker on my door and actual weight. I've asked FCA on Facebook to explain their math!

This puts me at a sub-1000lb payload on an ecoDiesel 4x4 Laramie.

 

[Dinky]

All I know is that my 2500, when empty, doesn't have enough capacity to haul most of the women that contact me from the on-line dating service. It might be time for a dually, or I'll be single forever.

Should of went with the long box...