Dealership Oil Change Questions

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BinaryData

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Howdy Y'all,

My RAM is still chugging away, but I've ran into a fun little problem. My oil drain plug was tightened with an air gun. How do I know this? My oil pan is dented to high hell, according to my sibling. Which leads me to this post, and my next questions:

1. Is this standard practice?
2. How should I go about confronting the dealership about this? (This is the first issue I've had with them on it)
3. Whose responsible for any damage?
4. Oil Filter insanely tight (Broke 2 oil filter tools trying to remove it)

I do work in construction, but the roads are paved that I drive on, and when I don't, it's gravel roads. The only reason I know about this is because my change oil light came on the last week of October. I've gone the last month without getting an oil change because the dealership didn't have any open slots until December. I'm absolutely pissed about this, but I'm trying to remain as calm as I can about it.
 

Sherman Bird

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Go from being Sigma to being Alpha. Confront them in a firm, concise, confident way that exudes an air of "I won't take any BS".
Tell them what the problem is, that THEY were the only ones to touch it, and what YOU expect THEM to do about it!

And, as a man with 48 years of professional experience, using a power tool on a drainplug is moronic. The oil filter is supposed to be hand tighten only.
 
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BinaryData

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Go from being Sigma to being Alpha. Confront them in a firm, concise, confident way that exudes an air of "I won't take any BS".
Tell them what the problem is, that THEY were the only ones to touch it, and what YOU expect THEM to do about it!

And, as a man with 48 years of professional experience, using a power tool on a drainplug is moronic. The oil filter is supposed to be hand tighten only.
Thank you! I remember taking my truck to Jiffy Lube and having my brother do the oil change next. He had to stab it with a screwdriver to remove the oil filter. It was ridiculous.
 

Mojo88

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Go from being Sigma to being Alpha. Confront them in a firm, concise, confident way that exudes an air of "I won't take any BS".
Tell them what the problem is, that THEY were the only ones to touch it, and what YOU expect THEM to do about it!

And, as a man with 48 years of professional experience, using a power tool on a drainplug is moronic. The oil filter is supposed to be hand tighten only.

Spot on about the drain plug. Years ago, I owned two full service stations. I saw (and repaired) many stripped out drain plugs, but honestly cannot recall ever hearing about someone using an air tool on the drain plug. Lots of techs simply go ape-man on those plugs, and tighten them beyond spec.

The oil filter is a different animal. IMO it actually needs to be a little bit over-tight. I have seen lots of them loosen up, to where they start leaking oil. This has happened even on my own vehicles, where I KNOW I initially tightened them to exact specs. So nowadays, I always go an extra 1/4-turn.
 

Sherman Bird

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Spot on about the drain plug. Years ago, I owned two full service stations. I saw (and repaired) many stripped out drain plugs, but honestly cannot recall ever hearing about someone using an air tool on the drain plug. Lots of techs simply go ape-man on those plugs, and tighten them beyond spec.

The oil filter is a different animal. IMO it actually needs to be a little bit over-tight. I have seen lots of them loosen up, to where they start leaking oil. This has happened even on my own vehicles, where I KNOW I initially tightened them to exact specs. So nowadays, I always go an extra 1/4-turn.
The Ford 3.0L "Vulcan" engine is the only exception I've encountered where the factory issued a TSB directing one to use a strap oil filter wrench to tighten the filter. The reason was that oil would leak our onto the starter and ruin it. Go figure. I generally put just a tad of extra "oomph" on oil filters, too. The 35nm spec for the plastic cartridge filter lids on KIA IS, dyed-in-wool, a must, however.
 

markabby

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don't feel bad. I had a new ford Edge and the last oil change, some moron stripped the drain plug!

Hope they fix that for you. The oil change people aren't at "mechanic" level.
 

Wild one

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Howdy Y'all,

My RAM is still chugging away, but I've ran into a fun little problem. My oil drain plug was tightened with an air gun. How do I know this? My oil pan is dented to high hell, according to my sibling. Which leads me to this post, and my next questions:

1. Is this standard practice?
2. How should I go about confronting the dealership about this? (This is the first issue I've had with them on it)
3. Whose responsible for any damage?
4. Oil Filter insanely tight (Broke 2 oil filter tools trying to remove it)

I do work in construction, but the roads are paved that I drive on, and when I don't, it's gravel roads. The only reason I know about this is because my change oil light came on the last week of October. I've gone the last month without getting an oil change because the dealership didn't have any open slots until December. I'm absolutely pissed about this, but I'm trying to remain as calm as I can about it.
Using an impact gun on the drain plug won't dent the oil pan. There's gotta be more to this story then you're letting on.
 
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BinaryData

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Using an impact gun on the drain plug won't dent the oil pan. There's gotta be more to this story then you're letting on.
Well, It wasn't there this summer. I'm given notes from what the dealership technicians see, and they said that I was leaking oil. Since my brother and I don't have access a shop anymore, we drove it up on water drainage area for irrigation in an orchard. I didn't see anything, he didn't see anything at that time. It's entirely possible I did ding it, but my truck has some other issues that I'm trying to ride out a little longer, so I'm extra cautious with it. I don't take it anywhere I absolutely do not have too, and I certainly don't do any hauling with it. I just find it strange that in the last year that this place has done my oil changes, not once have they mentioned the oil pan was dented/damaged. My brother lives ~3 hours away, otherwise I'd drive down there and take pictures of it. When the truck goes into the shop this coming Friday, I will ask them to take pictures, or if I can go take them. I'm not going to accuse them of damaging the oil pan, but the oil filter and oil drain plug, that's 100% them. If they did damage it and they are honest with me about it, I'm not going to have issues. Hell, I'll pay for the part if they put it in for free. This is the first issue I've had with this place, some of the other things like readjusting my seat, playing with my radio, or unplugging all of my electronics (cell phone charger / bluetooth radio adapter), don't really bother me.

In terms of doing business, I'd rather build a relationship with a certain place, than to torch one and move to the next. This place helped me out a ton when I needed it the most and they've been good to me, a non-mechanical idiot truck owner. The manager of the dealership chased me down in the parking lot, and gave me his business card with his personal number on it. He did that because he found out all of the issues I was having with my truck when I bought it. I bought it, 9 months later fuel pump went out. Then a whole slew of issues happened less than a year into owning it. The place I bought it from, apparently had a reputation of making things "look good" when they really weren't. In hindsight, I'm going to listen to my elders the next time I buy a vehicle, because everyone said not too and I didn't listen. I spent $25,000 ($20k for truck, $5k for extended warranty), and I've put at least $25,000 into it in repairs in the 5 years I've owned it. Engine went out, control arms, and a bunch of other things. I'll have to dig out my mechanics notes and take a look at it. I have another $3,000 in repairs to do.

Sorry for the long winded story and info, I've got a lot going on and my brain is just fried from being over worked 24/7.
 

Wild one

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What's wrong with taking pic's before you take it in.If your brother is driving the truck,how do you know he didn't run over something that could have flew up and dented the pan.Personally i'd rather have an over tightened oil filter then one that's not tightened enough,same with the drain plug. Quit buying cheap tools if you're breaking them trying to remove the filter,as you shouldn't be able to break a decent oil filter wrench by hand. I think you're dramatizing things a wee bit
 

Hootbro

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If you work construction, you should have the aptitude to learn how to do your own oil change. Taking that over is the only way you will 100% know it is done right.

As to getting the dealership to cover anything, that is going to involve them admitting any fault which will be low.
 

pscarbor

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If you work construction, you should have the aptitude to learn how to do your own oil change. Taking that over is the only way you will 100% know it is done right.

As to getting the dealership to cover anything, that is going to involve them admitting any fault which will be low.
I agree. I have the money to have my trucks worked on by others, but I've found that if you go that route you will typically get cheap parts installed by incompetent mechanics.

For something like an oil change at the stealer you won't get the best mechanic in the shop, more likely you'll get the seventeen year old high school dropout who might think the impact gun going rat-tat-tat is just SUPER cool. Learn to do your own oil changes and tire rotations. They are messy and you'll get all dirty but you'll have a better chance of not having a wheel fall off on the freeway.
 

ShortyV8

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As hard as it is to believe, it actually does happen. Drain plugs do get tightened with air impact guns. I took this photo at a local auto chain when a tech came to the front desk to show a coworker what he removed from a customer vehicle. The customer was in the day before for an oil change. The tech from the prior day did the damage seen in the photo. The plug on the left was tightened by a moron tech, the plug on the right is the new replacement plug. Impressive how the old plug has been necked down to just before actually breaking off. I was there to get a tire plugged. Needless to say I never went back.

Edit: And yes, the oil pan metal was distorted around the drain plug. And no, they weren't going to do anything about the damaged pan.
 

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TorqueWagon

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Howdy Y'all,

My RAM is still chugging away, but I've ran into a fun little problem. My oil drain plug was tightened with an air gun. How do I know this? My oil pan is dented to high hell, according to my sibling. Which leads me to this post, and my next questions:

1. Is this standard practice?
2. How should I go about confronting the dealership about this? (This is the first issue I've had with them on it)
3. Whose responsible for any damage?
4. Oil Filter insanely tight (Broke 2 oil filter tools trying to remove it)

I do work in construction, but the roads are paved that I drive on, and when I don't, it's gravel roads. The only reason I know about this is because my change oil light came on the last week of October. I've gone the last month without getting an oil change because the dealership didn't have any open slots until December. I'm absolutely pissed about this, but I'm trying to remain as calm as I can about it.
No it's not standard practice. You should complain to the dealer in writing with specific facts and non-emotionally. Address it to the service manager and the dealer owner. They are responsible for damage but they won't admit it and they probably won't offer do anything about it. Lastly I recommend you never take it to the dealer for an oil change again. They rip you off anyway with very high prices for very low quality work. Find a mechanic you trust or do it yourself. Best of luck you know things and happy holiday to you.
 

EdGs

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My FIL had a 2013 Toyota Tundra XSP-X, asked me to take it to Grease Monkey for an oil change, which I did. What a fiasco that was.

He passed away not long after, and when the truck came due for the next change, I did it. Walmart had OE Toyota filters on the shelf, and I got that and jugs of oil for a bit less than half of the $170 Grease Monkey charged.

I found out that they really reefed the plastic oil filter housing back on. I ended up using an impact gun to loosen it. Started at minimum torque and increased it until I broke it loose. Scared the excrement out of me, I was worried it would break.

Just reinforces my urge to DIY, I just do not trust others to do it right.
 
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Sherman Bird

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My FIL had a 2013 Tundts XSP-X, asked me to take it to Grease Monkey for an oil change, which I did. What a fiasco that was.

He passed away not long after, and when the truck came due for the next change, I did it. Walmart had OE Toyota filters on the shelf, and I got that and jugs of oil for a bit less than half of the $170 Grease Monkey charged.

I found out that they really reefed the plastic oil filter housing back on. I ended up using an impact gun to loosen it. Started at minimum torque and increased it until I broke it loose. Scared the excrement out of me, I was worried it would break.

Just reinforces my urge to DIY, I just do not trust others to do it right.
Ron White said it succinctly: "You can't fix stupid."
 

EdGs

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Ron White said it succinctly: "You can't fix stupid."
That's not even the half of it.

So this XSP-X was spec'd by my FIL. He wanted the smaller 4.6 v8, etc. So the dealership took a Tundra from the lot, and sent it to Jacksonville to where the TRD models are built, and they converted it over into the XSP-X he wanted. Interior upgrade, Exhaust upgrade, performance chip, skid plates, custom rims, BF Goodrich KO2 LT285/55R20's etc.

So, Grease Monkey pulls it over the pit, and the guy tells me there's aftermarket skid plates, etc. I said "no" and explained how the truck was ordered and built at the TRD plant. The guy says " I have an XSP and it's nothing like this." I explained that this is an XSP-X, a top-of-the-line model.

I went into the waiting room and was watching them through the window. They are finishing the oil change and it looks like they're having trouble with a skid plate or spacer. They put it up, take it down, etc. Then it hear the guy with an impact wrench and he is going to town on one of the bolts for like 10 seconds. Then again. I go out into the bay and ask the guy, " WHAT IN THE F--K ARE YOU DOING? IF IT'S NOT GOING, THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG."

I still don't know what his problem was, and when I did the next oil change myself, I saw they had lost one of the aluminum spacers for the skid plates. Fortunately, my work has a machine shop and I was able to make a spacer to replace the missing one.

This exact thing is why having someone else work on my stuff scares the crap out of me. Plus, $160 for a filter and 8 quarts of 0W-20.
 
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Sherman Bird

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That's not even the half of it.

So this XSP-X was spec'd by my FIL. He wanted the smaller 4.6 v8, etc. So the dealership took a Tundra from the lot, and sent it to Jacksonville to where the TRD models are built, and they converted it over into the XSP-X he wanted. Interior upgrade, Exhaust upgrade, performance chip, skid plates, custom rims, BF Goodrich KO2 LT285/55R20's etc.

So, Grease Monkey pulls it over the pit, and the guy tells me there's aftermarket skid plates, etc. I said "no" and explained how the truck was ordered and built at the TRD plant. The guy says " I have an XSP and it's nothing like this." I explained that this is an XSP-X, a top-of-the-line model.

I went into the waiting room and was watching them through the window. They are finishing the oil change and it looks like they're having trouble with a skid plate or spacer. They put it up, take it down, etc. Then it hear the guy with an impact wrench and he is going to town on one of the bolts for like 10 seconds. Then again. I go out into the bay and ask the guy, " WHAT IN THE F--K ARE YOU DOING? IF IT'S NOT GOING, THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG."

I still don't know what his problem was, and when I did the next oil change myself, I saw they had lost one of the aluminum spacers for the skid plates. Fortunately, my work has a machine shop and I was able to make a spacer to replace the missing one.

This exact thing is why having someone else work on my stuff scares the crap out of me. Plus, $160 for a filter and 8 quarts of 0W-20.
I see all but one of your viewpoints here.
It IS a crap shoot when others work on either your car, or any other of life's mechanized aspects. In my youth, I was blessed to have had a father and both grandfathers to teach me carpentry, plumbing, electrical systems, automotive maintenance/ light repairs, and other life skills.

This gave me resources to fall back on in later life as I had to fend for myself. My own Dad, and my own Maternal grandfather were formally educated beyond high school, and held down major-league white collar jobs, but had come up in the world using their hands and being self-sufficient. (I think the Depression and WW2 had a huge role in them having these skills).

You harp on how much Grease Monkey charged. Advice: Let it go. Consider the cost of the brick and mortar property, licensure, payroll, advertisement, liability insurance, worker's comp, and so on. It's an exercise in self evidentiary perspicuity that you or I can do for ourselves any number of things much more cheaply than hiring it done. This would include cooking for ourselves, among many others.

I have seen the results of incompetent work performed by dealers AND DIY'ers and independent garages, many times in the 6 decades I've been fixing cars. I'm currently rebuilding a 45RFE in a 2002 Ram 1500 4.7L where some "lesser-than" shop rebuilt it not so long ago. The workmanship errors in this transmission abound. This man, and MANY others couldn't do this repair themselves. So, am I gouging him to apply my lengthy and formal training and experience by charging him a healthy profit for doing this? Fortunately for him, I'm doing this whilst replacing the original engine, thus saving him on labor. I pull the trannies on engine jobs in 4-door crew cab designed trucks as part of my engine replacement. This allows me a greater ease of removing just the engine, and presents the opportunity to replace the front trans seal, and trans mount. When I pulled the trans pan and opened the filter, a goodly amount of the underdrive clutch and 3 valve body bolts resided therein!

I used carbon fiber enhanced clutch plates for longevity, installed a Transgo upgrade kit into the unit, among other improvements.

I can't do everything at my advanced age, so I HAD a shop where I sublet out some repairs. That guy sold his shop and retired. Many other of my network group have either died or quit/retired in recent years. When I down-sized to a 1 man operation 9 years ago, I went into the High School Auto program to teach the trade. That lasted only one year. Kids today seem to not be able to get their noses out of their cell phones, and seem not to value having trained skills.

Meanwhile, my old customers clamored at me to work on their cars. Why? You story about the idjit that boffed your simple oil change. This is a problem RIFE in the industry.

As a closing note, the moron who decided that the skid plate was aftermarket really telegraphed a condition known as "conclusion bias".
Since he hadn't seen this configuration, it couldn't possibly be factory! (According to him). There have been many commercial jet airliners crashed over the years due to conclusion bias. The death rate in those instances was exponentially higher that down here in our mortal world! Peace! ;)
 

zrock

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your upset about a dented oil pan on a truck that is 13 years old the pan could have been dented at any time without you knowing it. As far as a tight oil filter and plug i have put oil filters in finger tight and had to fight with them the next time i changed the oil, they sometime just seem to auto tighten, same with the drain plugs i do not over tighten mine with a wrench and i always find it way tighter than when i put it back in. I would also quit taking it to a chain lube bay your talking your engine life in your hands. Way i look at it oil is cheap so trying to save a few $$ on a service is not worth the long time expense of a failed engine. Another veh i own is factory synthetic and a chain has been putting in dinosaur oil so the oil change kids just read the cap and do not have a clue otherwise what goes in the engine.
 

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It IS a crap shoot when others work on either your car, or any other of life's mechanized aspects. In my youth, I was blessed to have had a father and both grandfathers to teach me carpentry, plumbing, electrical systems, automotive maintenance/ light repairs, and other life skills.

This gave me resources to fall back on in later life as I had to fend for myself.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This!

I too was very fortunate to have a father, grandfather and uncle who never hired anything to be done. My dad did all of his own automotive work. We had a bookshelf full of greasy Chilton repair manuals. I will forever be grateful for the "hands on" education I received in practical life skills from around the age of 10 until I left home at 18. In 1980 when I was 13-14, my Dad rebuilt the engine in his 1970 FJ-40 (Toyota Land Cruiser). That was real learning experience. That old FJ was SO easy to work on and maintain.

My Dad once told me, "real men change their own oil". For some reason, that always stuck with me. The ONE TIME I used a free dealer oil change back in 2004, I got home, parked the vehicle and started some yard work. About 30 minutes later I was standing out at our street, looked up the driveway and noticed a shimmering under the vehicle. Got closer and realized the shimmer was a huge pool of oil under the car. Drain plug was barely finger tight... I think Dad was trying to tell me something from the grave. ;) Called the dealer to complain, and the conversation went something like this: "Drive it back and we'll make it right". I hung up on the service advisor.
 
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