Distributor cap rotates by hand???

[KetchikanNick]

I'm assuming this is a bad thing...


1999 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L gas


I've been dealing with a crap ton of issues. Recently replaced the timing chain, PCM, ignition coil, distributor with cam sensor (pickup coil), cap/rotor/plugs, crankshaft position sensor, and found that my upstream O2 sensor was completely disconnected.


I got codes P0430 (crank position sensor) and P1391 (crank/cam sensor disagreement).


Main issue right now is an intermittent crank-no-start (no spark) issue. Happens for a while and then goes away for a while... I get 15-20 perfect starts and it drives great, then suddenly no spark for a bunch of tries, then after 5-30 tries it starts.


Figured it was the pickup coil (cam sensor) under the distributor cap, but when I got up there I noticed that the distributor cap rotated freely in my hand... back and forth at least 20 degrees or more... as far as the plug wires will allow.


Should that cap rotate like that??? Would that rotation cause those codes and the intermittent crank-no-start (no spark) problem? What is supposed to hold it from rotating? And does it have to be in an extremely specific position to tighten it down, or is visually centering it sufficient?


Sorry... lots of questions all at once...

Thanks in advance!

 

[crazykid1994]

It is timing for your spark so it would have to be in a specific position to run properly. You would have to get a timing gun to reset your spark properly. I’m not sure what holds it down. Most likely a clamp to the block at the base of the distributor. Haven’t had a 2nd gen in a while so it’s hard to remember entirely

 

[turkeybird56]

If yer Distributor is turning like that, the triangle or curved type clamp and I think 1/2" nut that holds that clamp down and holds yer Distributor tight is missing. U need to get that fixed at once. If that Distributor turns too far and throw the timing too far off and the engine continues to try and turn, U gonna bust something and be back in the Motor again, just saying.....all IMHO...

Added: Been a kazillion years since I played with a distributor holding clamp...(The ole loosen screw, get out the timing light, set at like 4 deg BTDC, tighten clamp most of the way, check again, then finally clamp down) (Old Chevy and slant 6 Dodge back in the day)

 

[El Huapo]

I defer to OkieSpaniel, below.

 

[Okiespaniel]

Ok.... this is absolutely the worst!

GUYS WHO DON'T OWN 2ND GENS SHOULD NOT GIVE OUT ADVICE ON THEM!

I hope you have not tried to set the timing with a timing gun. You will "f" everything up!

Timing on a 2nd gen is NOT set by the distributor. PERIOD! There isn't any mechanical advances, vacuum advance, points, pickups, nothing inside that distributor for ignition timing. It is set up to be a bridging switch point for the secondary coil voltage. And the cam sensor....telling the ecm when the intake lobe on each cylinder has closed and opened the valve to prepare for the firing stroke.

The cam sensor inside the distributor is used for setting the fuel sync. NOT TIMING! So trying to set timing by moving the distributor changes your fuel sync.
You will need a special tool /analyzer that clicks or buzzes or lights when the sync is set correctly. It reads off the ECM cam sensor.

Other factors that do cause issues with fuel sync are timing chain stretch, or bad cam or crank sensors! Cam sensors rarely fail.

You'll have to find a shop or mobile mechanic that has a fuel sync setting device and have him set it. If you don't have a distributor clamp, any small block Mopar clamp should work.

And the rest of you, Your advice was fine for a pre 90's Dodge and perfect for 70's-80's Dodges...

....BUT NOT 2ND GENS!

 

[KetchikanNick]

Thanks Okiespaniel, I had just read that somewhere else and I wasn't sure what to make of it all...

Can I use the process (I saw it on YouTube... for a Jeep I think) where you hand crank the engine to top dead center on a compression stroke and then turn the distributor until the rotor point lines up with the Cylinder 1 mark on the distributor pickup (cam sensor) ring?

Will that at least get me close enough that I can drive it to a shop?

How much hazard is there in driving it to a shop with the distributor out of position?

Thanks so much... I was spinning in circles!!!

 

[chri5k]

This should get you close enough to get it to a shop. The trick here is lining up the oil pump driveshaft before putting the distributor back in place.Find one near by that has the proper scanner to set the fuel sync correctly. Don't try the DIY Ohm-meter method. It will most likely not be correct.

http://bionicdodge.com/Download/Camshaft Timing and Setting Fuel Sync.pdf

 

[dapepper9]

Thanks Okiespaniel, I had just read that somewhere else and I wasn't sure what to make of it all...

Can I use the process (I saw it on YouTube... for a Jeep I think) where you hand crank the engine to top dead center on a compression stroke and then turn the distributor until the rotor point lines up with the Cylinder 1 mark on the distributor pickup (cam sensor) ring?

Will that at least get me close enough that I can drive it to a shop?

How much hazard is there in driving it to a shop with the distributor out of position?

Thanks so much... I was spinning in circles!!!

Yes

 

[leowes]

You can use a good scan tool (I use a snap on modis) to set the sync. If memory serves me correct the setting is 0 degrees. Once set this number should not move. If the number varies, then it means there is a mechanical issue ie stretched timing chain, worn distributor bushings etc