Distributor timing is way off

[Mendonjo]

Hello Everyone.

I picked up an 86 D150 this week in non running condition. The seller said the truck needed a new cam, the distributor worm gear was bad and the distributor could not keep time - like it would intermittently mesh with the cam (I know the oil pump drive gear actually meshes with the cam). He had replaced the distributor with a new one and was in the early stages of disassembling the engine to get to the cam.

I set the no.1 cylinder to TDC and checked the location of the rotor. It seemed to be pointing right at the no. 2 cylinder. I turned the engine over for a few seconds and brought the no.1 cylinder to TDC. The rotor was again pointing at the no. 2 cylinder. I did this for a total of 4 times and the rotor position was always at no. 2 cylinder.

At this point I'm hoping the cam is ok and somehow the oil pump gear got out of time.

Is it possible to retime that gear with the intake manifold still on? I'm hoping I can reach down to the slot for the distributor tang and lift out (with some reverse rotation) the gear and then put it back in so the slot is pointed at the no. 1 cylinder. Or maybe I'm all wet here and the cam worm gears go bad. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Joe

 

[TMyers]

If your plug wires are long enough, a simple and fast way to check is to move the plug wires on the cap one space. (Make no.2 the new no. 1)

 

[crazzywolfie]

could be the engine depending on which diagram you are looking at. i got 2 that show different locations. if you can get number 1 spark plug wire above it and go from there that may be the best way to go.

 

[Mendonjo]

Thanks for your help guys. I have done some more research and learned that it doesn't matter where the rotor is pointing - just make that the no. 1 plug wire on the distributor cap.

Anyway I did that and the engine would fire momentarily with starter fluid - and then it wouldn't. Okay so the distributor (new) is definitely loosing time. I pulled the distributor which still looks new and the drive gear that mates with the cam. Big problems.

The drive (or intermediate gear) has a portion of the helical gears worn right off so it was losing mesh with the cam. What is even more alarming is the bushing that the distributor drive shaft goes through is worn out. Way worn out, in fact maybe all the way through the bushing itself. I cant be sure without pulling the bushing.

Hopefully you guys can give a little more advice here. I think the bushing can be pulled with the engine still in the truck. I saw a you tube video that referenced OTC tool number 1174. But I am wondering is these bushing failures are common, it seems like an odd thing to go bad. Have any of you attempted such an in-truck fix? Perhaps its time for a donor engine??

Thank you. Joe

 

[Mendonjo]

I checked the cam teeth too. The cam would also have to be replaced .

 

[goldeneyee]

Pull the intake, timing cover, valve covers and replace the cam and timing chain. Reassemble, throw distributor back in and get it running. Reset timing with a timing light. Buy the Dodge Ram engine service manual for your year truck before starting and get some knowledgeable help. Good luck....

 

[crazzywolfie]

might be cheaper to just get another engine if you need to replace the cam and distributor bushing.

 

[Mendonjo]

Thanks Guys for the responses. The tough thing about a replacement engine of course is you don't know what you are going to get and don't find out until a lot of work was done. From reading your responses I think the best plan is to pull the cam (that doesn't cost anything) and then see about pulling the oil pump shaft bushing. I'll head to autozone and pick up a shop manual although they tend to be light on the details there is probably a few good tips.

Joe

 

[crazzywolfie]

most of the time you can find a good running 318 cheap. like $2-400. you can try pricing out the parts needed to fix it at summit racing or rockauto but i almost see it costing at least $2-300 for the basic parts needed to fix it. i guess at least your lucky and it doesn't have a roller cam like your 91. a roller cam would be about $300 on its own. i think the biggest issue i would have with the engine that is in your truck is you have never heard it run either so it could be junk also or the pieces that broke off the gears could still be in the engine somewhere and damage the new parts.

 

[Mendonjo]

I heard the engine run for about 2 seconds and sounded good. No parts are actually broken off the helical gears just heavily worn. I thought I would test the compression to get a feel for if the engine was a good candidate for saving. I got cylinders 1, 3, 5 done before the rain hit. 150 psi, 145, 150. I also have a few inquires out there on Facebook Marketplace about 318 engines as a plan B.

 

[crazzywolfie]

i guess 2 seconds is better than none. i just know some engines issues don't show up till they warm up kind of like my 89. oil lite is always flashing when warm along with the gauge reading low. pretty sure it has some worn bearings or something even tho it runs good. it also has no second gear but i never got to drive it when i bought it since it had a bad fuel pump and a blown rear brake line.

 

[Mendonjo]

Further research indicates that to pull the distributor bushing a I need a blind bushing puller ~$110. I need a special tool to insert and burnish the new bushing ~$100, I need an new intermediate gear ~$40 and a new cam and tappets plus all the associated gaskets $200. So I'm solidly in the category of replacement engine costs. I need a cherry picker but that is a tool I can use again in the future (so can my friends).

That said I'm tracking down replacement candidates. There is a fellow a few hours away with a 79 318 out of a one ton with 77k miles. Ill see if I can make a deal.

Joe

 

[Mendonjo]

Update: I bought the tool to remove the intermediate shaft bushing. It was super easy and the bushing came out right away. The bushing was not worn all they way through but it was .019 at the thinnest point (.100 nominal)

Putting the new bushing in and sizing it was pretty easy too.

Now I’m getting close to pulling the cam. Looks like I will have to cut the T section out of the radiator support to pull the cam. I’ll weld it back in when done

 

[Mendonjo]

The good news is I didn't need to cut the radiator support to pull/install the cam. There was just enough room. I noticed however when I got the intake manifold back on that there was a lot of gasket showing. After some research it looks like I put a large port gasket set on a small port engine. It looked right when I was putting the gaskets on and I would sure hate to pull the intake off again to swap them out - does anyone know if using the large port gaskets (fiber) on a small port engine is functionally a problem? Thanks! Joe

 

[Mendonjo]

I thought I would close this thread out for posterity's sake. The large port gaskets seal although the drivers side is not restricted on the EGR port like it should be. I think when that middle crossover is used for cooling water instead of exhaust gas/EGR you want an unrestricted gasket (maybe on the larger engines??). Anyway I went ahead and replaced the gaskets with the small port type, finally got everything back together, got the engine started and broke in the cam, and it sounds really good and smooth

 

[crazzywolfie]

any tips for swapping out cams easier? i got to do the one in my 81 soon. haven't been able to use it since the cam lobe or lifter on number 8 exhaust valve has failed and it is no longer working at all. been waiting for a few really good days do it to make sure no water or moisture gets into it

 

[Mendonjo]

The cam part of things was pretty easy. I ordered a Melling cam kit (came with lifters) from Rock Auto - saved a lot of money. I had to helicoil two intake manifold bolts (it was actually the head that needed the helicoils) and I kept a shop vac handy to make sure no debris from scrapping gaskets etc. got into the engine.

Once you remove the radiator(s) and water pump you can stand in the vehicle with your feet on the ground and reach everything nicely. For me the hard part - by far, was getting the timing chain cover back on without mucking up the gaskets. It took me three tries and three gasket sets. A lot of things come together here. You have the round rubber gasket that goes on the oil pan, stub gaskets that mate up to that and of course the big paper gasket that goes between the cover and the block. and a shot of RTV in the corners.

I changed the oil to a diesel oil prior to starting and added Lucas break in oil to the crankcase as well.

Joe

 

[crazzywolfie]

ok. nothing major. i have torn an engine apart but it has been at least 7 years and i never had to put it back together. i was mainly wondering how much of a pain it is to get the timing gear in and lined up and hoping to get the old gear out without too much issue. already got the diesel truck oil. was also going to coat everything in motokote and ad some to the pan once i get it all ready to reassemble.

 

[Mendonjo]

Lining up the timing gear is super easy but you will need a puller to get the harmonic balancer off. Most auto parts places lend them out. The bolt that holds everything on the crankshaft takes a 1-1/4 socket. I used an impact driver to remove it without issue

 

[crazzywolfie]

lol I guess I should have a bit more clear. The gear under the distributor that connects to the oil pump. I wasn't sure how much of a pain it would be to get it all lined up and back in