Do you see any repercussions to permanently turning off the mds?

[RedSRT4Me]

My truck won't even enter 8th gear when pulling my trailer, there is no way it's going into MDS since even unloaded, anything other than a flat road with no wind will cause MDS to deactivate. Like I said, when empty I play piano on the TH switch and the ECO light will flicker in and out, 20 times in a row, along with the corresponding jerk + exhaust note. I won't argue that the 4th gens might be different, but that's probably where the confusion lies because at one time ECO light just meant "driving economically" but as of 2019/5th gens it's definitely tied to MDS.

3.21 gears?

 

[ramffml]

3.21 gears?

Yes.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I wish I had a pic to give an exact#, but I know it was in the mid to high 30s, definitely not over 40, with the Fram, and similar #s with another filter which one escapes me at the moment. But now with the RP it is always 47-48 psi at warm idle.

Of course that's just my truck it seems like each of these hemis has its own set of requirements!

Thank you for sharing. It may be "just your truck", but is a real valid piece of real data between the two different filters, regardless of any quirks specific to your truck. I can't see this other than the Royal Purple filter being far more restrictive than the Fram Ultra, which is obviously not good for an oil-starved engine design like the Hemi. It is likely having to go into bypass mode more often as a result, as well. There is a point where too high a filtration efficiency is self-defeating.

@Burla - are you following this?

 

[farout75]

The Ticking problem comes from high idling. I have 78,600 mile s and I do have high idling. My dealer suggested to rev it up to 2,000 rpm ever once in a while. Idling is a fact of life with our RAM. I have the Max Care unlimited warranty so I expect at some point there will be some engine work needed. Disabling the MDS seem fruitless as the problem of idling still remains.

 

[RedSRT4Me]

The Ticking problem comes from high idling. I have 78,600 mile s and I do have high idling. My dealer suggested to rev it up to 2,000 rpm ever once in a while. Idling is a fact of life with our RAM. I have the Max Care unlimited warranty so I expect at some point there will be some engine work needed. Disabling the MDS seem fruitless as the problem of idling still remains.

Have to check digital rpms to see where you are at? You can tune idle. If I wanted to idle at 1000 rpms I could flash the truck to do so.

If you're high idling stock you have a vacuum leak or your throttle position sensor on the throttle body is malfunctioning.

 

[Joe Merchak]

My truck won't even enter 8th gear when pulling my trailer, there is no way it's going into MDS since even unloaded, anything other than a flat road with no wind will cause MDS to deactivate. Like I said, when empty I play piano on the TH switch and the ECO light will flicker in and out, 20 times in a row, along with the corresponding jerk + exhaust note. I won't argue that the 4th gens might be different, but that's probably where the confusion lies because at one time ECO light just meant "driving economically" but as of 2019/5th gens it's definitely tied to MDS.

I dont know, I still have the stock good year 20" tires and there is a 5 mile stretch of 50mph road by my house that the truck gets up to 8th gear and drops to 4cyl mode. It will stay there the whole time unless i push down to accelerate. My TT is only 5000lb and the truck hardly notices it and during this section of road if tow/haul is on it drops down to the same rpm as without a trailer and then you hear 4cyl mode kick in, which sucks because if you do need to accelerate then you have to wait to get all 8 cyl back.

 

[Bluto]

Just to throw some cold water on the warm and fuzzy party.... I shut off MDS about three years ago. I don’t allow my truck to idle anymore than using remote start 5 minutes before I drive. Change the oil with movie one every 5k or if the warning comes on (which ever comes first).
186,000 miles and without warning the engine went by by. Lifters and cam are bad.


And side note, the reason I never turned it back on s because I used my Diablo to disable it and shortly after my truck was broken into and the Diablo was stolen. Just never bought another one and was stuck on a moderate 87 octane tune with the MDS off.

 

[2012RAM1500RT]

Just to throw some cold water on the warm and fuzzy party.... I shut off MDS about three years ago. I don’t allow my truck to idle anymore than using remote start 5 minutes before I drive. Change the oil with movie one every 5k or if the warning comes on (which ever comes first).
186,000 miles and without warning the engine went by by. Lifters and cam are bad.


And side note, the reason I never turned it back on s because I used my Diablo to disable it and shortly after my truck was broken into and the Diablo was stolen. Just never bought another one and was stuck on a moderate 87 octane tune with the MDS off.

I really feel for you. I have a 2012 1500 with 136000 miles and a 2012 2500 with 210000 miles and I change my oil in both of them at 5000 miles with synthetic oil and so far I haven't had any issues with them but when and if it happens I'm not going to be happy either. Been a Mopar man from day one, all of my driving life but I will still admit it's an obvious issue. It may be just 5% or 20% chance of it happening but it is 100% to the ones it has happened to. It's not a cheap fix no matter how you look at it. All we can do is try to prevent it in our own way whatever that is but it's still sad it hasn't been figured out 100% what the real problem is and if it is known for sure what it is the automaker should fix it. If they're not going to help the one's it has already happened to then at least fix it so it stops happening to future buyers. I don't care if it's 50000 miles or 300000 miles this shouldn't be happening and be such a problem for this long. If they could resolve the lifter and cam issue the Hemi engine could be one of the best engines ever.

 

[Wild one]

I really feel for you. I have a 2012 1500 with 136000 miles and a 2012 2500 with 210000 miles and I change my oil in both of them at 5000 miles with synthetic oil and so far I haven't had any issues with them but when and if it happens I'm not going to be happy either. Been a Mopar man from day one, all of my driving life but I will still admit it's an obvious issue. It may be just 5% or 20% chance of it happening but it is 100% to the ones it has happened to. It's not a cheap fix no matter how you look at it. All we can do is try to prevent it in our own way whatever that is but it's still sad it hasn't been figured out 100% what the real problem is and if it is known for sure what it is the automaker should fix it. If they're not going to help the one's it has already happened to then at least fix it so it stops happening to future buyers. I don't care if it's 50000 miles or 300000 miles this shouldn't be happening and be such a problem for this long. If they could resolve the lifter and cam issue the Hemi engine could be one of the best engines ever.

GM probably had more cam issues in the 70's and 80's then Chrysler has had with the late model Hemi's,but the differance is GM did eventually fix their cam issues by clamping down on their suppliers and forcing the suppliers to fix the Rockwell hardening issues they were having. I'm not sure why FCA hasn't done the same,put the squeeze on the cam suppliers to come up with a harder cam lobe and a better lifter design

 

[2012RAM1500RT]

GM probably had more cam issues in the 70's and 80's then Chrysler has had with the late model Hemi's,but the differance is GM did eventually fix their cam issues by clamping down on their suppliers and forcing the suppliers to fix the Rockwell hardening issues they were having. I'm not sure why FCA hasn't done the same,put the squeeze on the cam suppliers to come up with a harder cam lobe and a better lifter design

You are right about that! I changed more cams in GM cars for other people than I care to remember. GM tried blaming it on everything but themselves but they did get it fixed and hasn't had an issue with it since that I know of. Hopefully FCA will do the same before they lose more buyers. Guess you have to admit to a problem before you can fix it!

 

[Bluto]

I really feel for you. I have a 2012 1500 with 136000 miles and a 2012 2500 with 210000 miles and I change my oil in both of them at 5000 miles with synthetic oil and so far I haven't had any issues with them but when and if it happens I'm not going to be happy either. Been a Mopar man from day one, all of my driving life but I will still admit it's an obvious issue. It may be just 5% or 20% chance of it happening but it is 100% to the ones it has happened to. It's not a cheap fix no matter how you look at it. All we can do is try to prevent it in our own way whatever that is but it's still sad it hasn't been figured out 100% what the real problem is and if it is known for sure what it is the automaker should fix it. If they're not going to help the one's it has already happened to then at least fix it so it stops happening to future buyers. I don't care if it's 50000 miles or 300000 miles this shouldn't be happening and be such a problem for this long. If they could resolve the lifter and cam issue the Hemi engine could be one of the best engines ever.

Yes , thanks. It is expensive. And the truck is in great shape so I’m replacing the engine. The reman company I am using claims to have righted the wrongs of the issue. Which includes:

• We have eliminated the oil sludge issue by utilizing a newly engineered piston which brings the combustion chamber temperature back under control. We have also drilled out drain back holes in the head and block to promote proper oiling.
  
  
• We have corrected timing chain guide and tensioner failure with new design parts.
  
• We install a M.L.S. (multi layer steel) head gasket which stops premature head gasket failure from the high heat conditions this engine endures.

 

[2012RAM1500RT]

Yes , thanks. It is expensive. And the truck is in great shape so I’m replacing the engine. The reman company I am using claims to have righted the wrongs of the issue. Which includes:

• We have eliminated the oil sludge issue by utilizing a newly engineered piston which brings the combustion chamber temperature back under control. We have also drilled out drain back holes in the head and block to promote proper oiling.
  
  
• We have corrected timing chain guide and tensioner failure with new design parts.
  
• We install a M.L.S. (multi layer steel) head gasket which stops premature head gasket failure from the high heat conditions this engine endures.

I hope I never have to ask you where you got it but sometime I may ask you how it's holding up even though it'll take some time to tell. Good luck!

 

[Nathan Goodwin]

This may be off topic but might help. I was reading an old paper about the 83 to 85 honda Magna motorcycle. They were thought to have oiling issues for the cam at idle so dudes spent tons of money to make the issue go away and it still happened. It wasn't until a metalergist bought one and took it apart that the issue was found. From year to year Honda got their cams from different sources. Different sources have different metal suppliers. So the carbon steal would break down differently if it was mined and cast in Michigan vs Idia even though the cam specs were identical. So you imagine an engine as popular as the hemi could reasonably very from vin to vin instead of year to year. So the guys that say oil is the issue or idle or mds are all only part of the equation. Without cutting a bunch of cams apart and putting them in a spectrometer there isn't a way of tracking it. So really its not an issue for Chrysler to fix. Its who can supply the most reasonable product for the price. Sorry that was long winded and it was my first post i believe. Im not the only one that bought this truck only to find out its a time bomb. My previous car was a subie. Head gaskets before that a ford 5.4 triton cam phasers. An Aveo with a timing belt issue. On and on it goes. Owning a vehicle is a scrap shoot. Do what you can but it doesn't pay to loose sleep.

 

[HEMIMANN]

This may be off topic but might help. I was reading an old paper about the 83 to 85 honda Magna motorcycle. They were thought to have oiling issues for the cam at idle so dudes spent tons of money to make the issue go away and it still happened. It wasn't until a metalergist bought one and took it apart that the issue was found. From year to year Honda got their cams from different sources. Different sources have different metal suppliers. So the carbon steal would break down differently if it was mined and cast in Michigan vs Idia even though the cam specs were identical. So you imagine an engine as popular as the hemi could reasonably very from vin to vin instead of year to year. So the guys that say oil is the issue or idle or mds are all only part of the equation. Without cutting a bunch of cams apart and putting them in a spectrometer there isn't a way of tracking it. So really its not an issue for Chrysler to fix. Its who can supply the most reasonable product for the price. Sorry that was long winded and it was my first post i believe. Im not the only one that bought this truck only to find out its a time bomb. My previous car was a subie. Head gaskets before that a ford 5.4 triton cam phasers. An Aveo with a timing belt issue. On and on it goes. Owning a vehicle is a scrap shoot. Do what you can but it doesn't pay to loose sleep.

Well, yes and no. As having worked in the industry for 30+ years, it is incumbent on the OEM to enforce quality supplier specs. Ask me how I know that. haha

I remember the Honda Magna - almost bought one. Got the cheaper Shadow instead. Money was tight back then.

 

[Marc Ram]

Yes , thanks. It is expensive. And the truck is in great shape so I’m replacing the engine. The reman company I am using claims to have righted the wrongs of the issue. Which includes:

• We have eliminated the oil sludge issue by utilizing a newly engineered piston which brings the combustion chamber temperature back under control. We have also drilled out drain back holes in the head and block to promote proper oiling.
  
  
• We have corrected timing chain guide and tensioner failure with new design parts.
  
• We install a M.L.S. (multi layer steel) head gasket which stops premature head gasket failure from the high heat conditions this engine endures.

What engine company did you purchase your rebuilt engine from?

 

[Bradley Newdom]

A friend's Tahoe just had the same problem with it's lifters and can. So it isn't just a Ram issue. I think it has a lot to do with where the lifters are made and the quality of the work are they made in China or Mexico or are they made under stricter guidelines in the US the same goes with the lifter springs which are supposed to keep the lifters in contact with the cam are the springs becoming weak thus allowing a gap to occur between the roller and the cam lobe my friends Tahoe was a new Tahoe with the 5-3

 

[bchap05]

Just to throw some cold water on the warm and fuzzy party.... I shut off MDS about three years ago. I don’t allow my truck to idle anymore than using remote start 5 minutes before I drive. Change the oil with movie one every 5k or if the warning comes on (which ever comes first).
186,000 miles and without warning the engine went by by. Lifters and cam are bad.


And side note, the reason I never turned it back on s because I used my Diablo to disable it and shortly after my truck was broken into and the Diablo was stolen. Just never bought another one and was stuck on a moderate 87 octane tune with the MDS off.

Probably from using Movie One. Thats the knock off Mobil one they sell out of the back of a van behind Walmart.

Jk teasing on the spelling error

 

[HEMIMANN]

@Bluto - Haven't heard of any "oil sludge issue" with Hemi pistons. Nor what or how that would contribute to any failures. Did the guy say any more about this?

 

[Bluto]

What engine company did you purchase your rebuilt engine from?

Well I haven’t ordered it yet. I’m also looking at complete crate engines but it seems chrysler hasn’t updated anything.

So the reman engine I’m looking at is from “Powertrain Products”.

 

[Bluto]

@Bluto - Haven't heard of any "oil sludge issue" with Hemi pistons. Nor what or how that would contribute to any failures. Did the guy say any more about this?

No not really. It seems the oil flow improvement is the biggest improvement.