Engine rattle sound

[Redcup]

Let us know how it works out.

Worst case scenario, if there is another underlying issue causing higher temps, the 192* thermostat will open earlier and help keep things cooler.

Thermostat is finally going in today. Between the 100 temps outside and storms I finally had a nice day today. Will report back later how the temps are.

And are these misfires normal? It was idling for about 20 minutes. I also have noticed it idle hunts. Goes from 500-600 at idle. You can hear it too. Sounds fancy but is it?

 

[Ken226]

Thermostat is finally going in today. Between the 100 temps outside and storms I finally had a nice day today. Will report back later how the temps are.

And are these misfires normal? It was idling for about 20 minutes. I also have noticed it idle hunts. Goes from 500-600 at idle. You can hear it too. Sounds fancy but is it?

The fluctuating idle and multi cylinder misfires, albeit a very low count, isn't normal. Probably not a major concern though.

Maybe look at the spark plugs on the effected cylinders, and if they're good, run some fuel injector cleaner through the system.

@Wild one can possibly offer up some advice on the injectors. I recall he has disassembled and cleaned them more than a few times.

Also, it might be worth a few minutes to clean the throttle body and do a relearn on the electronic throttle control. (In that order).

 

[Wild one]

Thermostat is finally going in today. Between the 100 temps outside and storms I finally had a nice day today. Will report back later how the temps are.

And are these misfires normal? It was idling for about 20 minutes. I also have noticed it idle hunts. Goes from 500-600 at idle. You can hear it too. Sounds fancy but is it?

This is what i use to clean injectors at home.There's also a video in the first post,that is what i basically copied to clean them at home.

Injector cleaning

Supposed to go cold and snow for the next 10 days,so i figured it was a good time to pull the injectors and give them a cleaning.Got them soaking in injector cleaner,where i'll probably leave them for a couple days before using some carb and choke cleaner to wash them out using my old homemade...

www.ramforum.com

 

[Redcup]

The fluctuating idle and multi cylinder misfires, albeit a very low count, isn't normal. Probably not a major concern though.

Maybe look at the spark plugs on the effected cylinders, and if they're good, run some fuel injector cleaner through the system.

@Wild one can possibly offer up some advice on the injectors. I recall he has disassembled and cleaned them more than a few times.

Also, it might be worth a few minutes to clean the throttle body and do a relearn on the electronic throttle control. (In that order).

Injector cleaner helped with the misfires. It's not any specific cylinder is just random though. Idle still remains though. I always get one at least one random misfire on start up. Had a total of 6 misfires after driving 2.5 hours yesterday. I know she is due for a tuneup. I normally do one shortly after I get a vehicle buuuuut this one is a bit different lol Throttlebody will get a cleaning when it's not 100 outside or storming.

This is what i use to clean injectors at home.There's also a video in the first post,that is what i basically copied to clean them at home.

Injector cleaning

Supposed to go cold and snow for the next 10 days,so i figured it was a good time to pull the injectors and give them a cleaning.Got them soaking in injector cleaner,where i'll probably leave them for a couple days before using some carb and choke cleaner to wash them out using my old homemade...

www.ramforum.com

This would be something I would do but have to find a time and get a rental. But I did save the link as I like doing my own work.



I drove bled the truck using the methods listed her after I replace the t-stat. When idling it would consistently open at 198 which the other t-stat was when it felt like it. During my drive yesterday the temp hit a max of 228 and never dropped below 206 while moving. Granted it was 86 outside, humid, and a heat index of 96. So maybe this is normal when running ac and hot air temps? I never paid attention to the temp until I got that rattle at the op. My sample size of one drive was where the temps hung around 205 but the outside temp was in the 60s. The heat still melts my face and I bled it on an incline 3 or 4 times. I would run it till the stat opened, go ham on the upper radiator hose till no more bubbles. Let it sit for awhile then do it again. Each time netted huge bubbles till the last one. Upper hose is hard too like it should be. I'll bleed it a few more times during the coming weeks.

 

[Wild one]

Injector cleaner helped with the misfires. It's not any specific cylinder is just random though. Idle still remains though. I always get one at least one random misfire on start up. Had a total of 6 misfires after driving 2.5 hours yesterday. I know she is due for a tuneup. I normally do one shortly after I get a vehicle buuuuut this one is a bit different lol Throttlebody will get a cleaning when it's not 100 outside or storming.



This would be something I would do but have to find a time and get a rental. But I did save the link as I like doing my own work.



I drove bled the truck using the methods listed her after I replace the t-stat. When idling it would consistently open at 198 which the other t-stat was when it felt like it. During my drive yesterday the temp hit a max of 228 and never dropped below 206 while moving. Granted it was 86 outside, humid, and a heat index of 96. So maybe this is normal when running ac and hot air temps? I never paid attention to the temp until I got that rattle at the op. My sample size of one drive was where the temps hung around 205 but the outside temp was in the 60s. The heat still melts my face and I bled it on an incline 3 or 4 times. I would run it till the stat opened, go ham on the upper radiator hose till no more bubbles. Let it sit for awhile then do it again. Each time netted huge bubbles till the last one. Upper hose is hard too like it should be. I'll bleed it a few more times during the coming weeks.

You don't have to let the injectors soak if time is a constraint,an hour or 2 will clean them easily if you have everything lined up to clean them.
If you remove the TB to clean it,disconnect the neg (-) battery post first. Then when you reinstall it,turn the ignition to the run position,but don't start the truck,then slowly push the gas pedal to the floor and back up again with-in 10 seconds,then turn off the ignition open and close the drivers door,that should do a throttle body relearn for you,and it will be drivable .

 

[Redcup]

Quick update: Drove it this morning. Air temp outside was 69 but heat index of 73. So not terrible out but it is humid. Driving 55-60 the temps stuck around 205. Hitting the highway and setting cruise at 65 it climbed up to about 222 and hoovered around that. I did have the ac on. Is this just normal for these engines? I figured with a colder t-stat the temps wouldn't be the same as with the stock temp. If it doesn't rain Thursday I will bleed it again.

You don't have to let the injectors soak if time is a constraint,an hour or 2 will clean them easily if you have everything lined up to clean them.
If you remove the TB to clean it,disconnect the neg (-) battery post first. Then when you reinstall it,turn the ignition to the run position,but don't start the truck,then slowly push the gas pedal to the floor and back up again with-in 10 seconds,then turn off the ignition open and close the drivers door,that should do a throttle body relearn for you,and it will be drivable .

So sort of how it is for a F150. Thank you for letting me know about this as I would have freaked out, like I did on my Ford, if it didn't start after putting it back together.

 

[Wild one]

Quick update: Drove it this morning. Air temp outside was 69 but heat index of 73. So not terrible out but it is humid. Driving 55-60 the temps stuck around 205. Hitting the highway and setting cruise at 65 it climbed up to about 222 and hoovered around that. I did have the ac on. Is this just normal for these engines? I figured with a colder t-stat the temps wouldn't be the same as with the stock temp. If it doesn't rain Thursday I will bleed it again.




So sort of how it is for a F150. Thank you for letting me know about this as I would have freaked out, like I did on my Ford, if it didn't start after putting it back together.

Did you check the thermostat before you installed,it's not uncommon to get a dud thermostat these days,they aren't the same quality as they used to be. I'd pull it out,chuck it in a pot of water on the stove,and use a common meat thermometer to monitor the temp of the water where the thermostat starts to open.

 

[Ken226]

Quick update: Drove it this morning. Air temp outside was 69 but heat index of 73. So not terrible out but it is humid. Driving 55-60 the temps stuck around 205. Hitting the highway and setting cruise at 65 it climbed up to about 222 and hoovered around that. I did have the ac on. Is this just normal for these engines? I figured with a colder t-stat the temps wouldn't be the same as with the stock temp. If it doesn't rain Thursday I will bleed it again.

If you are having the same temp concerns with multiple thermostats (assuming you tested it), and even swapping in a colder thermostat isn't making a difference, the you probably need to start looking elsewhere.

if you have active grill shutters, remove them and test drive it.

Use a thermal cam to look at the radiator while it is at operating temp. Any cold spots?

Check the front of the radiator for blockages. remove the upper radiator cover, look down between the radiator and AC condenser for any debris.



If it's running warm at cruising speed, typically it means that there is something blocking airflow through the radiator. At cruising speed there shout be ALOT of air through the radiator. So much that thermostat will be partially closing the keep the temps UP where they are supposed to be.

When A thermostat is stuck open, highway speeds result in an engine being overcooled. So, check your radiator for coolant clogs internally (thermal IR cam), and for airflow blockages externally (sticks, leaves, bugs, non functional active grill shutters).

 

[Redcup]

If you are having the same temp concerns with multiple thermostats (assuming you tested it), and even swapping in a colder thermostat isn't making a difference, the you probably need to start looking elsewhere.

if you have active grill shutters, remove them and test drive it.

Use a thermal cam to look at the radiator while it is at operating temp. Any cold spots?

Check the front of the radiator for blockages. remove the upper radiator cover, look down between the radiator and AC condenser for any debris.



If it's running warm at cruising speed, typically it means that there is something blocking airflow through the radiator. At cruising speed there shout be ALOT of air through the radiator. So much that thermostat will be partially closing the keep the temps UP where they are supposed to be.

When A thermostat is stuck open, highway speeds result in an engine being overcooled. So, check your radiator for coolant clogs internally (thermal IR cam), and for airflow blockages externally (sticks, leaves, bugs, non functional active grill shutters).

I removed the shutters while at work and drove it home. After about 15 minutes of highway driving the temp rose to about 206 and stayed there. This was driving 70 with the ac on and outside temp about 83 and humid. I also inspected the grill and there is a spot of feather from when I smoked a bird a couple weeks ago so I'll need to remove it otherwise the grill was clear. I don't have access to a thermal cam though. With regards to the shutters, every time I have looked at them through the grill they are always open. I also don't have any codes other than the license plate bulb being out. So is it the shutters? I'll drive it to work tomorrow without the shutters and home with them reinstalled to see if it runs warm again. I will be thoroughly confused if the temps stay low with the shutters back in.

Did you check the thermostat before you installed,it's not uncommon to get a dud thermostat these days,they aren't the same quality as they used to be. I'd pull it out,chuck it in a pot of water on the stove,and use a common meat thermometer to monitor the temp of the water where the thermostat starts to open.

I did test it and it opened around 196-198.

 

[Ken226]

I removed the shutters while at work and drove it home. After about 15 minutes of highway driving the temp rose to about 206 and stayed there. This was driving 70 with the ac on and outside temp about 83 and humid. I also inspected the grill and there is a spot of feather from when I smoked a bird a couple weeks ago so I'll need to remove it otherwise the grill was clear. I don't have access to a thermal cam though. With regards to the shutters, every time I have looked at them through the grill they are always open. I also don't have any codes other than the license plate bulb being out. So is it the shutters? I'll drive it to work tomorrow without the shutters and home with them reinstalled to see if it runs warm again. I will be thoroughly confused if the temps stay low with the shutters back in.

Removing the shutters increased airflow through the radiator. That it reduced the running temp pretty strongly indicates that there is an issue with the radiator.

Even if the radiator is internally clogged, adding more airflow (removed shutters) would lower the temps.

A thermal cam just makes it easier to diagnose when there is a big clog. Then downside is at cost as much as a new radiator, which them kinda begs the question, maybe a new radiator is worth just replacing. They are surprisingly cheap.





I thing @EdGs replaced a radiator recently. He could probably steer you in the right direction for a replacement, if you end up wanting to do that.

I did test it and it opened around 196-198.

The wax inside the thermostat's capsule starts melting kinda slowly at 192*. If the thermostat started opening at 192*, then was fully open by around 198, then that is likely normal operation.

If you were to hold the water temp at exactly 192*, the thermostat would still start opening at 192*, then slowly open all the way. It just takes time for the wax pellet to melt.

 

[EdGs]

Removing the shutters increased airflow through the radiator. That it reduced the running temp pretty strongly indicates that there is an issue with the radiator.

Even if the radiator is internally clogged, adding more airflow (removed shutters) would lower the temps.

A thermal cam just makes it easier to diagnose when there is a big clog. Then downside is at cost as much as a new radiator, which them kinda begs the question, maybe a new radiator is worth just replacing. They are surprisingly cheap.

View attachment 568812



I thing @EdGs replaced a radiator recently. He could probably steer you in the right direction for a replacement, if you end up wanting to do that.





The wax inside the thermostat's capsule starts melting kinda slowly at 192*. If the thermostat started opening at 192*, then was fully open by around 198, then that is likely normal operation.

If you were to hold the water temp at exactly 192*, the thermostat would still start opening at 192*, then slowly open all the way. It just takes time for the wax pellet to melt.

Here's the one I got:



Rad was $119, but was $100 to ship. Still cheaper than local, though.

 

[EdGs]

If you replace the rad, remove the grille. With the grille off, you can unbolt the AGS and remove the reservoir.

Be prepared to break a couple grille clips, I broke all 4 of mine, @Ken226 has a link for those.

Much easier to unbolt the condenser from the rad.

I also discovered a bit of casting sand in my reservoir when I dumped it out, just FYI.

Good luck with your repair.

 

[Redcup]

I'll ask the fd chief if I can borrow their FLIR tomorrow. Just run the truck till the t-stat opens and check for cool spots? And how does a rad get clogged just changing the water pump? And if the rad is clogged how long is it drivable like this? I just blew a good stack of money to fix the waterpump. I still haven't financially recovered from that and the previous repairs. The rate I am going with this damn truck I will have replaced everything on it by the end of the year. Should have bought a bicycle instead or kept my F150...

So if the shutters are working shouldn't they stay open to keep the temps lower? I would hate to replace the radiator and it was fine all along. Also shouldn't the temps climb when I am driving at less than highway speeds? On a side-note I also have noticed the electric fan is running all the time. The truck sat all day, when I fired it up the fan kicked on almost immediately. Is this normal? I am now paying way too close attention to everything the truck does..... I now noticed on good bumps the brake pedal rattles and my passenger front window squeaks when it goes down but not up. I might have a stroke if this keeps up

 

[Ken226]

I'll ask the fd chief if I can borrow their FLIR tomorrow. Just run the truck till the t-stat opens and check for cool spots? And how does a rad get clogged just changing the water pump? And if the rad is clogged how long is it drivable like this? I just blew a good stack of money to fix the waterpump. I still haven't financially recovered from that and the previous repairs. The rate I am going with this damn truck I will have replaced everything on it by the end of the year. Should have bought a bicycle instead or kept my F150...

I'm not sure how it would have got clogged, or even if it is clogged. Checking with a thermal cam is one of the methods you would use to rule this possibility out, to avoid the parts-cannon approach to problem solving. Casting sand is a common cause of clogged heater cores and radiators. Also, really old coolant that has turned acidic, or reacted chemically when someone topped off with non-compatible coolant. There are tons of possibilities.

I did a coolant flush early this year on my truck and the wifes durango. I did both coolant flushes in the same weekend. The next weekend, the water pumps went out on BOTH vehicles! I DON'T think that was just a coincidence . It doesn't take a mathematician to calculate the probability of it being coincidence, but 2 coolant flushes resulted in needing 2 new water pumps, at the same time.

It was Jan 5th. I did a quick search because I even posted about it, here:

https://www.ramforum.com/threads/overheat-help.214815/post-2975646

So if the shutters are working shouldn't they stay open to keep the temps lower?

I'm not sure as to what specific temp Mopar programmed them to open/close at. My truck doesn't have those.

I would hate to replace the radiator and it was fine all along.

Yea. same here. I like to test things before replacing parts, to avoid that as much as possible.

Also shouldn't the temps climb when I am driving at less than highway speeds?

At less-than highway speeds, your engine is under less load and since there is less heat, a properly functioning cooling system can remove heat more easily, with just the fan. At higher speeds, there is alot more load on the engine so more heat, but also more airflow through the radiator, so, it depends on what is wrong with your cooling system.

On a side-note I also have noticed the electric fan is running all the time.

The truck sat all day, when I fired it up the fan kicked on almost immediately. Is this normal?

Is your truck an electric only fan, or does it have a clutch fan? My 2013 has both, and i don't think i've ever heard the electric fan come on. I'm sure it's probably happenned, but i've never heard it come on, or noticed that it's on. Not once.

I am now paying way too close attention to everything the truck does..... I now noticed on good bumps the brake pedal rattles and my passenger front window squeaks when it goes down but not up. I might have a stroke if this keeps up

I know the feeling.

 

[Redcup]

I'm not sure how it would have got clogged, or even if it is clogged. Checking with a thermal cam is one of the methods you would use to rule this possibility out, to avoid the parts-cannon approach to problem solving. Casting sand is a common cause of clogged heater cores and radiators. Also, really old coolant that has turned acidic, or reacted chemically when someone topped off with non-compatible coolant. There are tons of possibilities.

I did a coolant flush early this year on my truck and the wifes durango. I did both coolant flushes in the same weekend. The next weekend, the water pumps went out on BOTH vehicles! I DON'T think that was just a coincidence . It doesn't take a mathematician to calculate the probability of it being coincidence, but 2 coolant flushes resulted in needing 2 new water pumps, at the same time.

It was Jan 5th. I did a quick search because I even posted about it, here:

https://www.ramforum.com/threads/overheat-help.214815/post-2975646

I'm not sure as to what specific temp Mopar programmed them to open/close at. My truck doesn't have those.



Yea. same here. I like to test things before replacing parts, to avoid that as much as possible.




At less-than highway speeds, your engine is under less load and since there is less heat, a properly functioning cooling system can remove heat more easily, with just the fan. At higher speeds, there is alot more load on the engine so more heat, but also more airflow through the radiator, so, it depends on what is wrong with your cooling system.




Is your truck an electric only fan, or does it have a clutch fan? My 2013 has both, and i don't think i've ever heard the electric fan come on. I'm sure it's probably happenned, but i've never heard it come on, or noticed that it's on. Not once.





I know the feeling.

The thermal cam I used wasn't as fancy as the flir in the pic. It's just an MSA TIC that the fd lent me. It doesn't show the whole radiator just where you are aiming the camera. It was a uniform color but don't know if that was just the smaller radiator in front. But the color was uniform across. Also when I washed the truck yesterday I aimed the pressure washer through the grill a bunch of times. The temps seemed a smidge better. Highway speeds, ac on max, and air temp around 94 it hit a max of 222 but would hoover around 215. Driving in to work this morning it never went above 215. Highway speeds, ac on, and air temp of 72 but high humidity. Maybe there is dirt through the fins I couldn't see and the washer loosened some of it. And I do have an electric fan as well as a clutch fan.

 

[Ken226]

Your temps aren't really concerning, and are certainly within what Ram would consider "normal". Especially give you are in a warmer climate.

But, that said, it's still worth checking out.


If you have a laser thermometer, next time you have it at operating temp, pop the hood and shoot the thermostat housing. Then try a few spots on the radiator.

Just to check the accuracy of your coolant temp sensor. Is it a OEM sensor?

 

[Redcup]

Your temps aren't really concerning, and are certainly within what Ram would consider "normal". Especially give you are in a warmer climate.

But, that said, it's still worth checking out.


If you have a laser thermometer, next time you have it at operating temp, pop the hood and shoot the thermostat housing. Then try a few spots on the radiator.

Just to check the accuracy of your coolant temp sensor. Is it a OEM sensor?

Had a buddy bring out a big fancy FLIR from his job and double checked the temps. Across the radiator there was a few degrees variation but nothing huge. And the sensor is what came with the mopar pump I didn't swap the old one back. Part of me was wondering if the temp sensor could be bad but that "it's new so it can't be!" bias took over. Should know better though as I had to swap a master-cylinder in my silverado 5 times before I got a good one. Dealer new part too. I do have a laser thermo and will check around those areas. Just a pain removing the shutters and grill to get to the radiator. Even more-so that I have a ranchhand guard on the front so I can't look straight at it. I would take compressed air to the radiator but I am scared of bending the fins. So I might just run the pressure washer through the grill a few more times when I wash it again.

 

[Ken226]

Had a buddy bring out a big fancy FLIR from his job and double checked the temps. Across the radiator there was a few degrees variation but nothing huge. And the sensor is what came with the mopar pump I didn't swap the old one back. Part of me was wondering if the temp sensor could be bad but that "it's new so it can't be!" bias took over. Should know better though as I had to swap a master-cylinder in my silverado 5 times before I got a good one. Dealer new part too. I do have a laser thermo and will check around those areas. Just a pain removing the shutters and grill to get to the radiator. Even more-so that I have a ranchhand guard on the front so I can't look straight at it. I would take compressed air to the radiator but I am scared of bending the fins. So I might just run the pressure washer through the grill a few more times when I wash it again.

Wait, I was a little confused earlier when you mentioned "smaller radiator in front", and now "grill shutters" in the way. Are you trying to use the thermal cam to look at the radiator from the front? Like, through the grill and shutters and AC condenser?

Open the hood and look from the engine bay side.
Also, shoot the thermostat housing with a laser thermometer, from the engine bay side.

You will have a really good view of the radiator if you remove the fan and shroud. I realize that it's a lot of work (it's not), but if this stuff was easy there's be no such thing as repair shops.

But even if you don't want to remove anything, you'll probably be able to see enough looking forward, through the spinning fan blades to see if there is a big, horizontal cool spot. But, it isn't really sounding like this is your problem.

 

[Yardbird]

Had a buddy bring out a big fancy FLIR from his job and double checked the temps. Across the radiator there was a few degrees variation but nothing huge. And the sensor is what came with the mopar pump I didn't swap the old one back. Part of me was wondering if the temp sensor could be bad but that "it's new so it can't be!" bias took over. Should know better though as I had to swap a master-cylinder in my silverado 5 times before I got a good one. Dealer new part too. I do have a laser thermo and will check around those areas. Just a pain removing the shutters and grill to get to the radiator. Even more-so that I have a ranchhand guard on the front so I can't look straight at it. I would take compressed air to the radiator but I am scared of bending the fins. So I might just run the pressure washer through the grill a few more times when I wash it again.

This may be a dumb question, and probably is, but, are you checking the temp of the radiator and not the A/C condenser?

The A/C condenser is mounted to the front of the radiator.

 

[Ken226]

This may be a dumb question, and probably is, but, are you checking the temp of the radiator and not the A/C condenser?

The A/C condenser is mounted to the front of the radiator.

We posted at the same time. I just realized after reading his last reply.