Etorque and gas mileage

[MikeinSonoma]

I can’t find anything to monitor the (V6) etorque, is there a way to verify that it’s actually working? Sometimes when I start the truck at a stoplight, it jumps as if it’s not being revved up by an electric motor. My mileage, according to the sticker should be 19 to 24, I get 16 unless I’m extremely careful and can get it to 18. Of course the dealer is useless they simply claim sticker means nothing and when they drove it on the freeway downhill it got (per the computer) 20. When I checked it it said 19, arrg. I track my mileage real time, gallons versus mileage.
If for some reason the motor is not kicking in that might account for the bad gas mileage, don’t trust my dealership to really understand it.

 

[mikeru]

Sounds like you don't have a clear understanding of how the etorque system works. The etorque motor only provides drive for the first half rotation of the tires (from a stop). After that it does nothing. The etorque system saves gas via the stop/start feature. It can save a significant amount of fuel if you mostly drive in urban areas. But if the majority of your commute is highway, you won't see any appreciable gains in fuel economy. There are several videos online that describe how this system works. One of the best videow IMHO is linked below. It features one of Ram's product specialists to describe the system.

ram etorque video - - Video Search Results

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You're not alone in not seeing the same fuel economy that's on your window sticker. That's not surprising. There are way too many variables that determine actual fuel economy, such as how your truck is equipped, which tires you have, ride height, any exterior mods that may affect wind resistance, driving style, etc. Stellantis lists the same mileage for a V6 Tradesman as they do for a V6 Longhorn, yet there is a significant weight difference between those two models. You can't realistically expect they would get the same fuel economy, all other variables being equal. In my experience, one of the biggest factors in fuel economy is driving style. Watch some hypermiler videos for tips on how to save fuel by changing your driving style.

 

[turkeybird56]

Relying on what is posted on the Window Sticker unfortunately is a dream. Some vehicles get close to it, some more, but most less. As MIKERU, poster #2 said. Way too many variables to include load of truck, configuration, weight carried, build, tires, wind, ambient temp on fuel and readings, HOW U drive, and and. Also, how many miles as it takes a while for engines to "break" in, you will find as it gets a lil older, mileage improves some. Definitely look at video in post #2 ref E-torque and how it runs.
I will attach my estimated mileage per sticker. Now, at 4 years old, and 20K on my odometer, I get 13-18 in town, and 17-21 on highway. BUT a heck of a lot depends upon my driving, traffic, highway, etc. etc.,. I also found, after 4,000 miles, my mileage as quoted above. BUT I have since changed my TIRES from stock GY SRA's to Falkens, and I lost 1 to 1 1/2 mpg due to increased tire weights and resistance, etc. All IMHO .....

ADDED: My Hwy miles mostly IH 35, going South direction Austin. And EVERYBODY, drives 75-90 mph on there till it backs up and U go from 80 mph to 10 mph real quick, so I am usually when on 35 at least 80 mph, and as U know, U can go from 20 mpg to 17 mpg that quick at those speeds.

CAVEAT: The E-Torque system with the generator and 48V battery are totally integrated. If it was not working, you would know. Truck may not start or stay running or do a "Ford" thang (found on road dead), just saying, because all the electronics and computer stuff rely on each other to run.

 

[MikeinSonoma]

Sounds like you don't have a clear understanding of how the etorque system works. The etorque motor only provides drive for the first half rotation of the tires (from a stop). After that it does nothing. The etorque system saves gas via the stop/start feature. It can save a significant amount of fuel if you mostly drive in urban areas. But if the majority of your commute is highway, you won't see any appreciable gains in fuel economy. There are several videos online that describe how this system works. One of the best videow IMHO is linked below. It features one of Ram's product specialists to describe the system.

ram etorque video - - Video Search Results

The search engine that helps you find exactly what you're looking for. Find the most relevant information, video, images, and answers from all across the Web.

video.search.yahoo.com

You're not alone in not seeing the same fuel economy that's on your window sticker. That's not surprising. There are way too many variables that determine actual fuel economy, such as how your truck is equipped, which tires you have, ride height, any exterior mods that may affect wind resistance, driving style, etc. Stellantis lists the same mileage for a V6 Tradesman as they do for a V6 Longhorn, yet there is a significant weight difference between those two models. You can't realistically expect they would get the same fuel economy, all other variables being equal. In my experience, one of the biggest factors in fuel economy is driving style. Watch some hypermiler videos for tips on how to save fuel by changing your driving style.

Thank you for the response, I understand what you explain about the etorque, that’s where my concern comes in, it’s from a stop after truck shuts off, the truck jumps when it starts, the etorque is supposed to help prevent that, making a restart smooth. I’m also read that it’s supposed to help accelerating on the freeway… But still my point, how do you know it’s working?

 

[zogg]

I don’t understand where all of this stuff comes from except the federal government who has no clue.

The MDS, stop start, etorque, etc are all supposed to increase mpg. My experience, as with other folks including the op, shows a very minimal, if any, fuel savings. The same might be said for all of the 8 speed and ten speed transmissions. My transmission spends most of its life upshifting and downshifting on the interstate. Even the slightest hills cause an 8 to 7 shift. My neighbor’s new f150 with a ten speed goes from tenth to 6th or 7th all the time. When is our mpg only a tad, if an, better than when I had a Hemi with out mds or 8 speed??
How much fuel is spent developing this crap? How much does it cost the end consumer in higher vehicle costs?
My neighbor spent $100 to buy a module to turn off the stop start function. Everyone hates it and many people pay extra to turn it off. People pay to turn off MDS. How stupid

 

[mikeru]

Thank you for the response, I understand what you explain about the etorque, that’s where my concern comes in, it’s from a stop after truck shuts off, the truck jumps when it starts, the etorque is supposed to help prevent that, making a restart smooth. I’m also read that it’s supposed to help accelerating on the freeway… But still my point, how do you know it’s working?

It seems that you still don't fully understand the system. Did you watch the video in the link I provided in my last post? Non-etorque trucks do not have stop/start, so that function alone will tell you it's doing something. It assists only in the first 1/2 rotation of the tires, from a stop. It also helps to smooth out transmission shifts. But etorque does not help to accelerate once you are moving. Which is why the HP and torque ratings on the etorque Hemi are identical to the non-etorque Hemi.

On a correctly functioning etorque system, you won't know when it's working (other than stop/start). It's designed to not be noticed. In my experience with the system, the only way I really knew it was doing anything was during stop start operation. If the engine shuts off, then restarts when I let off the brake, it's working. Some people claim to notice the brake regeneration when it happens, but I never really noticed that on either of the etorque trucks I've owned.

 

[Beltsand]

It seems that you still don't fully understand the system. Did you watch the video in the link I provided in my last post? Non-etorque trucks do not have stop/start, so that function alone will tell you it's doing something. It assists only in the first 1/2 rotation of the tires, from a stop. It also helps to smooth out transmission shifts. But etorque does not help to accelerate once you are moving. Which is why the HP and torque ratings on the etorque Hemi are identical to the non-etorque Hemi.

On a correctly functioning etorque system, you won't know when it's working (other than stop/start). It's designed to not be noticed. In my experience with the system, the only way I really knew it was doing anything was during stop start operation. If the engine shuts off, then restarts when I let off the brake, it's working. Some people claim to notice the brake regeneration when it happens, but I never really noticed that on either of the etorque trucks I've owned.

When I had my 1500, you could feel the motor giving you the 'launch' from a standstill, mostly when you were just trying to move up a half car length and didn't want to go fast, it would give more umph than I wanted. I could also feel a very slight change in how the braking felt when the regen would kick in. Couldn't always pick up on it, but could occasionally. Overall, it was done pretty well I thought.

 

[MikeinSonoma]

…On a correctly functioning etorque system, you won't know when it's working (other than stop/start). It's designed to not be noticed…

if you start from the position that I understand how it works… would probably help. If the etorque system is not functioning correctly, as you say, how would you know it? Vehicles had the feature of shutting off at red lights before there was etorque, they’re two different systems. The sales pitch is that the Etorque also helps smooth out, starting the engine up after it stops, that is something you should be able to notice, it literally was designed with that in mind. Yes it was designed to not be noticed working, but you should see the benefits from it and that is my question. If you were able to turn off the etorque (not the engine stopping at red lights just the E torque), you would see the difference when it’s off as opposed to when it’s on. There are no gauges to tell you that it’s working. In a highbred they show you the battery charging and when you’re reclaiming energy there’s a whole gauge set up for that. If the ram showed the torque battery, not discharging ever, you would know there was a problem.
If the Rams system had a fault that was preventing the motor from receiving electricity, how would you know that? What would the symptoms be, maybe rough startup at red lights and a bit lower gas mileage? (that I’m experiencing) Is there an idiot light that turns on?

 

[mikeru]

if you start from the position that I understand how it works… would probably help.If the etorque system is not functioning correctly, as you say, how would you know it? Vehicles had the feature of shutting off at red lights before there was etorque, they’re two different systems. The sales pitch is that the Etorque also helps smooth out, starting the engine up after it stops, that is something you should be able to notice, it literally was designed with that in mind. Yes it was designed to not be noticed working, but you should see the benefits from it and that is my question. If you were able to turn off the etorque (not the engine stopping at red lights just the E torque), you would see the difference when it’s off as opposed to when it’s on. There are no gauges to tell you that it’s working. In a highbred they show you the battery charging and when you’re reclaiming energy there’s a whole gauge set up for that. If the ram showed the torque battery, not discharging ever, you would know there was a problem.
If the Rams system had a fault that was preventing the motor from receiving electricity, how would you know that? What would the symptoms be, maybe rough startup at red lights and a bit lower gas mileage? (that I’m experiencing) Is there an idiot light that turns on?

Lets not bring in other vehicle types. We're discussing the Ram 1500 specifically. To date, Ram 1500 trucks without etorque don't have stop/start. Stop/start is integral to the etorque system. The fact that stop/start works tells you the etorque system is working. However, there will be times when stop/start doesn't engage. That doesn't mean your etorque isn't working, just that conditions were not met for stop/start to happen.

On an etorque equipped engine, start up using the fob or pushbutton still uses the starter motor. When restarting during a stop/start operation it uses the etorque motor/generator to start the engine. Which on the Hemi is a much smoother start up than when the starter motor is used. I have no experience with the V6 etorque system, so my comments are making assumptions that it works the same as on the Hemi.

To answer your original question...no, there is no gauge, idiot light, or other indication when the etorque system is working. You can assume it's always active though, as there is no way to turn it off. If you're experiencing issues with it lurching forward then you probably have a problem that needs to be addressed by your dealership.

Concerning your fuel economy, the main fuel savings you might see with etorque comes from stop/start. If your drive doesn't include a lot of stop/start operation you won't see noticeable fuel savings.

 

[clay282]

It seems that you still don't fully understand the system. Did you watch the video in the link I provided in my last post? Non-etorque trucks do not have stop/start, so that function alone will tell you it's doing something. It assists only in the first 1/2 rotation of the tires, from a stop. It also helps to smooth out transmission shifts. But etorque does not help to accelerate once you are moving. Which is why the HP and torque ratings on the etorque Hemi are identical to the non-etorque Hemi.

On a correctly functioning etorque system, you won't know when it's working (other than stop/start). It's designed to not be noticed. In my experience with the system, the only way I really knew it was doing anything was during stop start operation. If the engine shuts off, then restarts when I let off the brake, it's working. Some people claim to notice the brake regeneration when it happens, but I never really noticed that on either of the etorque trucks I've owned.

Mine has the Pentastar V6 and I can tell you with %100 certainty, you CAN tell what Etorque is doing and when it's doing it. This is probably not something you would notice in the Hemi, since it has so much more power and torque, but you can tell, in the V6.

The system is imperceptible when the A/C is off and there's no huge load. Truck drives like any other truck. Again, power based - You can tell when the A/C is on and pulling hard on the motor. Under heavy cooling load, there's a compressor pulling power and the MGU pulling power to make electricity. The Hemi also has torque to spare in situations and the V6 doesn't have it down low. So, you're often left feeling like it's dead on its feet and in a gear that's far too high. The fix for that is a throttle controller.

Compression and regen is another area. 8 pistons probably slow things down easier, as you coast DOWN hills and recover power annnnd slow the truck in lower gears. The V6 like to rev and she is happy to spin in 2nd or 3rd gear downhill at 60mph for engine braking. This weekend on a downhill, I noticed she spun up to 4500 rpm on a downhill and stayed alllllllllll the way down. Along with this comes the brakes. Engine can't brake the truck, so you do feel it when you brake and the MGU kicks out = you suddenly need more brake pedal.

I'm not complaining or ********, I know what I purchased. But I would definitely say, it's not as imperceptible as they lead you to believe. Maybe it is in the Hemi, but not the V6 gasser. I drive small economy company cars, so I'm use to things like this. It just doesn't seem as predictable in the Ram and it would be nice to have a monitor to reference. In all the miles I've driven the truck, there's still times when it drives a bit hinky and it makes me go "Hmmmmm... wonder what that was about"? It would be nice to know instead of guessing... a simple screen monitor would remove the guessing.

 

[MikeinSonoma]

Lets not bring in other vehicle types. We're discussing the Ram 1500 specifically. To date, Ram 1500 trucks without etorque don't have stop/start. Stop/start is integral to the etorque system. The fact that stop/start works tells you the etorque system is working. However, there will be times when stop/start doesn't engage. That doesn't mean your etorque isn't working, just that conditions were not met for stop/start to happen.

On an etorque equipped engine, start up using the fob or pushbutton still uses the starter motor. When restarting during a stop/start operation it uses the etorque motor/generator to start the engine. Which on the Hemi is a much smoother start up than when the starter motor is used. I have no experience with the V6 etorque system, so my comments are making assumptions that it works the same as on the Hemi.

To answer your original question...no, there is no gauge, idiot light, or other indication when the etorque system is working. You can assume it's always active though, as there is no way to turn it off. If you're experiencing issues with it lurching forward then you probably have a problem that needs to be addressed by your dealership.

Concerning your fuel economy, the main fuel savings you might see with etorque comes from stop/start. If your drive doesn't include a lot of stop/start operation you won't see noticeable fuel savings.

Thank you that makes sense. If I understand correctly, the starter motor really only works when the truck is in park, but when the engine stops at a red light, to start again, the e-torque motor turning the engine and moves the truck forward starting the engine. Or something to that affect, without involvement of the starter motor.
I was thinking that the starter motor was worked in unison with the E torque motor, in which case it would still work, but it would be a rougher start up.