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Factory ZF 8 speed transmission fill procedure after doing a tranny service

Discussion in 'Engine & Performance' started by Wild one, Aug 14, 2020.

Sponsored By: Moe's Performance
  1. HEMIMANN

    HEMIMANN Senior Member Supporting Member Military

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    Footnote: I got on the phone with Amsoil and argued with them about no gear oils w/o LS additives. Of course, I got the boilerplate response that everything is just fine with LS in it. Well yes, I could get buttermilk to work as a gear lube for a while too. That's not the point - the point is to apply the lubricant that is designed for the application.

    It was like talking to a brick wall. They only want to hear praise for their wonderfulness - not reality.
     
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  2. Wild one

    Wild one Senior Member

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  3. phoenixgenesys

    phoenixgenesys Member

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    You're absolutely right, however, I was thinking of shops or folks that have money to throw at the problem. Anyway, you're absolutely right.

    Let's put it this way: AMSOIL has bout 312 employees, and RedLine Oil has about 128 (I got the figures online). I think more people worked on developing and testing the Dexron III(H) specification and subsequently licensed fluids than the entirety of AMSOIL Inc. The reason why both of these companies can easily manufacture so many fluids is that they don't submit any of them for any approvals or certifications and because they are basically blenders. I've seen just how much testing Mobil did when they came up with their Mobil 1 Annual Protection line of motor oils. It's been discontinued by the way, but it was good stuff. I'm pretty sure that neither AMSOIL nor RedLine Oil does that kind of testing for all their products combined. They lab test what they sell and that's about it, and get feedback from customers. AMSOIL seems more serious about their products, but that's because they have better access to base oils and additives (ExxonMobil, Shell, Lubrizol, probably Infineum). For example, their Torque Drive fluid is a clone of Delvac 1 ATF. I wouldn't be surprised if they just buy it from ExxonMobil and repackage it under their own brand. Since they never submitted it to Allison or Daimler for any approvals, ExxonMobil won't have any beef with them as far as competition goes. Just a hunch.
     
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  4. MRFREEZE57

    MRFREEZE57 Senior Member

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    I noticed that it does say for the NV series cases but is their really that much difference in most transfer case designs and are they that particular for a specific lube? valvoline makes a generic TC lube for about 9 bucks a quart and says is one fits all and Amsoil recommends the same lube for the NV and both BW cases. the Ram is the first 4WD I have owned, guess time will tell if I done the right thing with the TC lube.
     
  5. phoenixgenesys

    phoenixgenesys Member

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    Not really, however, make sure to run a shear stable fluid that's around 7 to 7.5 [email protected] That's why I recommend Delvac 1 ATF because it's TES-295 certified and they can't cheapen the formula because Allison pulls their license. Looking at the properties of RedLine C+ ATF, it seems that it has some VII in it. Truthfully, I doubt it matters. I would not, however, use Valvoline TC fluid, it's thin Group III oil.
     
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  6. chrisbh17

    chrisbh17 Senior Member

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    Are you on BITOG?

    I think we were just messaging in a thread there. You mentioned Castrol Syntrax for the diffs, but not on here. Any reason why? (not calling out, just curious)
     
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  7. phoenixgenesys

    phoenixgenesys Member

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    YogiTheCat on BITOG. It's kind of too late to change my handle on here because it would create a mess. I left out Castrol Syntrax because I only mentioned the European version on BITOG. It's kind of hard to get. However, it's very good stuff. The Castrol Syntrax 75W-90 black bottle is about the same as Mobil 1 75W-90, so not that great. Valvoline SynPower would be my choice if I couldn't get anything else above it, and Mobil 1 only if I was stuck on an island alone with my truck and it was the only thing available there for a diff fluid change.
     
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  8. phoenixgenesys

    phoenixgenesys Member

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    Just wanted to touch back on the BW44-44 transfer case fluid:

    Here is the MSDS for Mopar BW44-44 Transfer Case fluid #68089195AA: https://www.kwparts.com/media/1695/68049954ga_eng.pdf

    Here is the MSDS for Shell Spirax S2 A389 transmission fluid: https://shop.sclubricants.com/pub/media/sds/shell/Shell-Spirax-S2-ATF-A389-MSDS.pdf

    Look at the safety section, they are identical. Considering that the Shell is an Allison TES-389 certified fluid, chances that these two would be identical are nill. By the way, Allison asks for $50K just to start the certification process (set up a dyno), plus all subsequent costs.

    It's basically Dexron III(H) fluid with an update to protect Viton seals.

    In 2018 RAM switched the transfer case fluid to Mobilfluid LT.

    The only reliable way to tell what you have in your transfer case is when you do your first drain and fill. If RED fluid comes out then it's ATF, if it's AMBER or BLUISH (depending on condition and how the light shines on it) it's Mobilfluid LT. I doubt that you will find Mobilfluid LT at least up until the 2018 model year, but some input from others would be appreciated.

    I also take back my recommendation for adding Lubegard Platinum ATF protectant to any of the fluids I'm about to list. It contains friction modifiers and the last thing you need is for your transfer case clutch to slip when you need it the most. Lubegard Red ATF Protectant would work, but the fluids below are of such high quality that you don't need it.

    Suitable replacements:

    For RED Dexron III(H) ATF (BW44-44 and BW44-45):
    - Shell Spirax S2 A389
    - Mobil Delvac 1 ATF - it's TES-295 approved and suitable to replace Dexron III(H) and TES-389 fluids - this is a huge upgrade to what came in your transfer case but it's $50/gallon
    - Castrol TranSynd - TES-295 certified - upgrade to original fluid
    - Shell Spirax S6 A295 - TES-295 certified - upgrade to original fluid
    - AMSOIL MV ATF
    - AMSOIL TORQUE DRIVE - a Castrol TranSynd clone and not officially tested or approved by Allison
    - RedLine Oil D4 ATF - recommended for TES-389 applications
    - RedLine Oil High-Temp ATF - recommended for Dexron III applications - use this if you really abuse your transfer case

    For AMBER colored fluid - Mobilfluid LT (BW44-44, BW48-11, BW48-13):
    - Mobil 1 Mobilfluid LT - obviously - it's sold only in 5-gallon buckets, so a bucket will outlast the useful life of your truck, unless you have friends nearby with BW44-44 (2018 and newer), BW48-11, or BW48-13 transfer cases - then you can all pitch in
    - RedLine Oil MT-LV - 70W/75W - according to David Granquest from RedLine Oil this is a suitable replacement for Mobilfluid LT - he did not say to use this in the transfer cases I listed, he just said that it's a suitable replacement
    - RedLine Oil MT 75W-80 - this is a bit thicker than Mobilfluid LT and is used in transfer cases and this is what I found to match Mobilfluid LT
    - sorry, there aren't many great options but Mobilfluid LT is not expensive on a per quart basis, it's just not sold in anything less than a 5-gallon bucket.

    Please be cautious about what the AMSOIL and RedLine websites recommend. Their databases are a bit out of wack and not up-to-date, and they don't seem to care about updating them.

    I hope this helps.
     
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  9. chrisbh17

    chrisbh17 Senior Member

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    Re the 44-44: I once found a PDF parts list of the 44-44, and IIRC one or two of the parts were listed as up to 2016, with slightly different part numbers for later than 2016.

    But it was not an FCA document, so it could mean that FCA didnt use the updated parts until MY18, or they could have started using them in MY17, or they even switched somewhere in between.

    Assuming those parts are the ones that needed the updated fluid (I think they were, because they were clutch related), the ONLY real way is to drain a little fluid and check the color....assuming the color doesnt get tainted with age.
     
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  10. phoenixgenesys

    phoenixgenesys Member

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    If you could please provide a link to that document, that would be great. I'd love to read it. If the parts were clutch-related, then I'm reasonably sure that they need less, not more, friction modifiers. Why? Because Mobilfluid LT is technically a low-viscosity universal tractor fluid, and as such, I doubt it has any meaningful amount of friction modifiers. It's usually not used in any automatic transmissions. If anyone can chime in on this, I would appreciate it. Maybe we can establish some fluid guide to making all of our lives easier.
     

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