Feels mushy while towing

[RLJ10X]

Please explain where I said gears would fix the rear end looseness.

 

[Bldrinker]

Please explain where I said gears would fix the rear end looseness.

Please explain your statement then.
Usually the way this works is when someone asks for help the following reply’s try to address the issues.
What issue did you attempt to address?

 

[RLJ10X]

He's pulling an 8000 lb trailer. Ram says his truck with 3.21s is rated for 8200. Ram says 3.92 equipped 1500 will pull 10,000+.

If he had 3.92s, he would have 2000 more pounds to go before Ram says that's the limit; Hence more wiggle room (before he's maxed out).

 

[crash68]

He's pulling an 8000 lb trailer. Ram says his truck with 3.21s is rated for 8200. Ram says 3.92 equipped 1500 will pull 10,000+.

If he had 3.92s, he would have 2000 more pounds to go before Ram says that's the limit; Hence more wiggle room (before he's maxed out).

Even changing to 3.92, 4.10, or 4.30 isn't going to fix the rear end of the OP's truck being squirrelly.

It's possibly in the suspension or the OP did get new tires, there could be problem with one of them. It might be worth try rotating the tires

 

[dhay13]

He's pulling an 8000 lb trailer. Ram says his truck with 3.21s is rated for 8200. Ram says 3.92 equipped 1500 will pull 10,000+.

If he had 3.92s, he would have 2000 more pounds to go before Ram says that's the limit; Hence more wiggle room (before he's maxed out).

Changing gear ratio still won't change your capacities from a legal standpoint. On paper it is still the same as one that came with 3.92s but for that VIN the max towing will still be 8200 or whatever is was when new.

 

[mtofell]

Many posts are focusing on pulling when OP is likely having a problem carrying the weight. I agree with Crash - it's a suspension thing not a pulling power thing.

 

[RLJ10X]

Next time I will preface my posts with: "This is slightly off subject, but.."


My post was really in response to the "he's maxed around at 8000 pounds with his current truck" post, which he wouldn't be if he had lower gears.

There are too many variables involved in trying to assess why something feels mushy. And mushy isn't exactly a standard unit of measure, which is why I went off subject in the first place. It'll never happen again, until the next time.

 

[runamuck]

I am curious about what an earlier poster said about the front axle should have less on it than the rear..when my trailer is hooked up I have 100# more on the front axle..3340/3240..seems to tow fine. I use a WDH with the 800# bars..should I be tweaking the rig to change the axle loading somehow.

 

[kxlexus]

A Helwig rear sway bar set in the stiffness position would help a lot

 

[mtofell]

I am curious about what an earlier poster said about the front axle should have less on it than the rear..when my trailer is hooked up I have 100# more on the front axle..3340/3240..seems to tow fine. I use a WDH with the 800# bars..should I be tweaking the rig to change the axle loading somehow.

I think what he was saying is to not over-tighten your WDH. Meaning, don't take too much weight off the rear wheels or you can start to lose traction. I had this happen years ago with my first setup. When going over a bump the rear end would lift too much and the wheels would start to break free.

Years ago when WDH first came out there was an ad to demonstrate it where they hooked up a trailer to a FWD Cadillac (I think) and removed the rear wheels and drove car across the country. Someone posted it on a forum once. This basically demonstrates what I'm talking about.

The other reason you want to keep the rear axle with enough weight is to have enough tongue weight. Heavier tongue weight generally results in a better towing experience (this is partially why 5th wheels tow so much better). Really, reducing tongue weight with a WDH is somewhat counter-productive to stable towing but we are often fighting the payload limits of the truck. A lot of this is why people just like to get an HD truck and not have to worry about being close to their payload. Less tongue weight = more sway so by reducing it, some anti-sway help becomes even more important.

In the end there is no one size fits all approach and if your setup is working for you I wouldn't change anything.

Here's a great video that really shows the concept of light tongue weight leading to sway:

 

[runamuck]

well my thinking is that when not towing 58% of the wt. is on the front axle as near as I can tell by using the numbers off the ram website..but when towing I have just barely over 50% on the front..per cat scale..the steering seems fine but would the whole rig be set up more correctly if more wt. was on the front axle. the WDH could probably be tweaked a little to make that happen..

 

[crash68]

I think what he was saying is to not over-tighten your WDH. Meaning, don't take too much weight off the rear wheels or you can start to lose traction. I had this happen years ago with my first setup. When going over a bump the rear end would lift too much and the wheels would start to break free.

^^^ what he said
I've had similar experience with the rear end being light, it can make the sphincter pucker.

@runamuck starting off with the rear end light can cause the rear end to be loose and lack traction. It's also more possible that the trailer could push the rear end of the truck out from behind you. Being within 100lbs won't take much to change, you can probably even throw some more weight in the bed if your not close to the GAWR.

 

[tron67j]

well my thinking is that when not towing 58% of the wt. is on the front axle as near as I can tell by using the numbers off the ram website..but when towing I have just barely over 50% on the front..per cat scale..the steering seems fine but would the whole rig be set up more correctly if more wt. was on the front axle. the WDH could probably be tweaked a little to make that happen..

Yes you want to keep the percentage the same. Everything is designed to work best when that is happening.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

Thanks for all your help. I think I've decided to just go to a bigger, more appropriate truck. Looking now at 3500's, because I see a fifth wheel in our future. Again, thank you all for your help!

Good decision. I got a 2500 with the idea I'd go bigger later on from my current TT. I'm finding out a lot 5ths are 16.8K

 

[crash68]

Yes you want to keep the percentage the same. Everything is designed to work best when that is happening.

Just NO
If they were to design a pickup truck to handle well, it would come from the factory with a 50/50 weight balance...like a Corvette. Trucks are nose heavy in anticipation of load weight in the bed.

 

[JS4024]

You are pulling a lot with that truck. Trade in for a 2500. Problem solved. You will go through brakes like poop through a goose with that much weight on that truck. Simply put you are cramming 10 lbs into a bag designed for 5.....

 

[tron67j]

50/50 weight is not really the whole picture. Weight is the effect of gravity on an object. Engineering designs the braking and steering systems based on the mass of a vehicle. Use of a WDH should be such that the final distribution mimicks the original mechanical set up of a tow vehicle. This ensures the vehicle operates at maximum effectiveness loaded, mirroring how engineers designed it to function unloaded.

 

[crash68]

50/50 weight is not really the whole picture. Weight is the effect of gravity on an object. Engineering designs the braking and steering systems based on the mass of a vehicle. Use of a WDH should be such that the final distribution mimicks the original mechanical set up of a tow vehicle. This ensures the vehicle operates at maximum effectiveness loaded, mirroring how engineers designed it to function unloaded.

Still No..
Find one manufacturer of WDH that spells that out, because if returning back to mimick the factory engineering was important they would.
Even the SAE J2807 recommends a minimum of 25%-50% of the front axle load be returned. Nothing about returning the truck weight balance back to how it left the factory.
If the vehicle design is based on it's mass, then adding a trailer or load completely changes that engineering.
I'd like to see someone contort their 3500 CTD dually w/40' toy hauler set up so the truck has the factory weight balance and report back how it pulls... because that's how it will perform the best? (SMH)..

 

[2003F350]

Still No..
Find one manufacturer of WDH that spells that out, because if returning back to mimick the factory engineering was important they would.
Even the SAE J2807 recommends a minimum of 25%-50% of the front axle load be returned. Nothing about returning the truck weight balance back to how it left the factory.
If the vehicle design is based on it's mass, then adding a trailer or load completely changes that engineering.
I'd like to see someone contort their 3500 CTD dually w/40' toy hauler set up so the truck has the factory weight balance and report back how it pulls... because that's how it will perform the best? (SMH)..

This is correct. Pickups are built in anticipation of a load in the back - which is why unloaded trucks can so easily get 'squirrelly' in the rear when it is wet or snowy/icy out. Throw a couple hundred pounds back there and things get MUCH better.

WDH setups are intended to readjust the weight, yes. But they are NOT intended to 'get you back to factory.' They are simply there to help even out the loading somewhat, to aid in stability and control.

 

[runamuck]

You are pulling a lot with that truck. Trade in for a 2500. Problem solved. You will go through brakes like poop through a goose with that much weight on that truck. Simply put you are cramming 10 lbs into a bag designed for 5.....

actually my travel trailer has 4 wheel brakes and the brakes on my laramie are very strong so I have had no problem slowing or stopping the whole rig. knock on wood..