First Time Diesel Owner + Bed Camper Advice

[Exdeus]

Hey All -

Just upgraded from a 1500 to a 2500 Cummins. Pick it up tomorrow evening. I have a few questions I was hoping you can help me with.

1. The wife and I are upgrading from a rooftop tent to possibly a truck bed camper (likely a pop-top Palmino or Four Wheel Camper with flatbed). I CANNOT find a 2017 RAM camper guide. The 2016 I have found lists GVWR using some code I cannot figure out what it is. This is the guide I am referring to https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/bbg/pdf/2016/docs/ram/hdramcg.pdf . What are the codes in the GVWR column? It is a 2017 2500 Laramie with the Cummins and 6'4" bed.
2. I will likely lift the truck using the AEV 3" DualSport suspension for offroad use with the camper, so will get a light camper. The AEV keeps the factory payload and tow limits. Any thoughts around this or concerns?
3. Airbags. With the 2500 having the coils in the back versus the leaf springs, with a factory stance, or a 3" lift, are air bags recommended with a 1,200 - 1,600 pound camper?
4. May remove the bed and go with a flat bed on the back and a four wheel camper. Any idea what the factory bed weighs so I can calculate out payload with camper + flatbed - factory bed?
5. How is tire pressure properly determined based on payload and camper weight? Should I just run it at recommended PSI on truck door?
6. Exhaust brake on the diesel. It's my daily driver, about 25 miles per day one way, so 50 miles per day. Do I leave the exhaust brake on auto, or what's the deal with that thing? Leave it off?

Lastly, in regards to getting the Cummins, I hear a lot about deleting and tuning. I am not looking for high speed or rolling coal, not my thing. I will be offroading and taking this on long range camping/expedition trips. Is there a value in getting a tune on the truck, and if so, which one? Most of my driving will be highway to get to location, followed by light to moderate offroading.

Thank you all in advance! I have a lot of questions on the diesel so I'm sure I will have plenty more!

 

[SouthTexan]

1. All 2014+ 6.7L 2500's have a max GVWR of 10k. That is the max GVWR of class 2B which is where Ram puts the 2500's.

2. The payload of the diesel 2500's are limited due to the max GVWR of the truck class they are in. Their actual capabilities and ratings of it's individual parts far exceed the maximum GVWR of the class it is in. I load mine with 3k on a regular basis. For example, the front GAWR of the 3500 and 2500 are the same, and the rear GAWR is only 500 lbs less.

3. Air bags or Timbrens are recommended not because the coils lack the strength, they are recommended because the coils are placed closer to the center of the axle which causes anything with a high center of gravity to wobble side to side in the bed. Leaf springs would do the same if they were placed in the same position.

4. Payload = GVWR - actual weight. Since the truck is limited to a 10k GVWR due outdated government class system, your payload is also limited.

5. I would run at least 65 psi in the back if loaded with a camper. The lower you go, the lower the rating drops.( i.e. a tire may have 3,000 lbs rating at 80 psi, but may drop to a 2,500 lb rating at 65 psi)

6. Do whatever you like on the exhaust brake. Some people say to run it often so that you do not get much soot accumulation which causes actuator failure, but this is not proven.


Just because a truck is tuned and deleted, does not mean it will roll coal. The reason why a diesel truck rolls coal is because it does not have enough air for the amount of fuel being added so the black smoke is just unburnt fuel. Older trucks had fixed geometry turbos, much lower fuel pressure, and had injectors that could only fire a once or a few times per combustion event so adding just a little power caused them to roll coal. With new diesels having VG turbos, 26k+ psi fuel pressure, and injectors that can fire several times per combustion event, it takes a hot tune running at the edge of what your turbo can handle to roll coal and even then it is not much.

When I had my stock VG turbo and deleted, I could not roll coal on my 400 rwhp tow tune no matter how hard I tried. The 450 rwhp daily driving tune blew just a little smoke if you went wide open throttle, but clearing up in seconds as the turbo caught up with the amount of fuel being added. The 475 rwhp race tune blew a little more smoke and took a little longer to clear up. The 500 rwhp max effort tune blew even more smoke and took a lot longer to clear up, but it would eventually in the higher rpms.

 

[SouthTexan]

I would like to add that going over a manufacturers payload rating is not against the law and you will never receive a ticket for doing so. Going over the GVWR of what your truck is registered for, however, is against the law and you can be ticketed for going over it.

In Texas, I can register my truck in Class 3 which has a max GVWR of 14k even though the manufacturers GVWR is maxed out at 10k, but I will have to pay twice as much. If I register my truck as 10k GVWR, but get caught hauling something that puts me over that, then I would have to pay the additional registration cost of the GVWR I got caught carrying for all of the years I have owned my truck and have to register for that GVWR from that point on.

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

I can't imagine you'd need a tune on a newer truck. I guess I just don't see getting that much of a gain out of it. I have a 14 and its got like 400hp and 800ish tq, I mean do I really need more? I barely use any of it as it is. I think its the fastest thing I've ever owned(kinda sad in a way). You could remove things like the torque management, but that'll just kill the trans eventually. About the only tuning I'd want to do would be to delete emmisions things.

Deleting seems like a different story. Deleting things like the DEF, catalyst and EGR system seem like a much better idea. In theory it should allow the truck to last a long time without any annoying issues. I'm not sure on what downsides that has though. I'm in california so i can't do any of it.

I use my exhaust brake all the time on the highway. I pretty much get in the truck and set it to auto as I start driving. It won't do much under 50mph unless the tow haul mode is on. We have a pretty good grade on my commute so it cycles on and off a few times coming down. I figure it just helps keep anything from getting stuck and helps increase the life of my brake pads. Once again, as far as I know it doesn't harm anything or decrease mpgs so why not?

Kevin

 

[SouthTexan]

A custom tune doesn't just add power. It adjusts transmissions shift points(up and down) to your liking. It increases the trans valve body line pressure to be able to hold more power and make the shifts more firm. It alters torque converter lockup so you put more efficient power to the ground sooner. It gets rid of the "dead pedal" and makes the pedal as sensitive as you want it. Many emissions intact tune also turns off the EGR which is the cause of most soot buildup and increase fuel mileage.

Although, I would encourage anyone to go drive a diesel with over 500 horsepower at the wheels. It is a blast to drive and the pull is addicting. You get the same power going part throttle at lower rpms as you would in stock form at higher rpms. Imagine having stock peak horsepower levels available at just 1,700 rpm with an additional 400 lb-ft at the wheels. Just a slight tip in on the throttle and the truck just pulls.

 

[Exdeus]

1. All 2014+ 6.7L 2500's have a max GVWR of 10k. That is the max GVWR of class 2B which is where Ram puts the 2500's.

2. The payload of the diesel 2500's are limited due to the max GVWR of the truck class they are in. Their actual capabilities and ratings of it's individual parts far exceed the maximum GVWR of the class it is in. I load mine with 3k on a regular basis. For example, the front GAWR of the 3500 and 2500 are the same, and the rear GAWR is only 500 lbs less.

3. Air bags or Timbrens are recommended not because the coils lack the strength, they are recommended because the coils are placed closer to the center of the axle which causes anything with a high center of gravity to wobble side to side in the bed. Leaf springs would do the same if they were placed in the same position.

4. Payload = GVWR - actual weight. Since the truck is limited to a 10k GVWR due outdated government class system, your payload is also limited.

5. I would run at least 65 psi in the back if loaded with a camper. The lower you go, the lower the rating drops.( i.e. a tire may have 3,000 lbs rating at 80 psi, but may drop to a 2,500 lb rating at 65 psi)

6. Do whatever you like on the exhaust brake. Some people say to run it often so that you do not get much soot accumulation which causes actuator failure, but this is not proven.


Just because a truck is tuned and deleted, does not mean it will roll coal. The reason why a diesel truck rolls coal is because it does not have enough air for the amount of fuel being added so the black smoke is just unburnt fuel. Older trucks had fixed geometry turbos, much lower fuel pressure, and had injectors that could only fire a once or a few times per combustion event so adding just a little power caused them to roll coal. With new diesels having VG turbos, 26k+ psi fuel pressure, and injectors that can fire several times per combustion event, it takes a hot tune running at the edge of what your turbo can handle to roll coal and even then it is not much.

When I had my stock VG turbo and deleted, I could not roll coal on my 400 rwhp tow tune no matter how hard I tried. The 450 rwhp daily driving tune blew just a little smoke if you went wide open throttle, but clearing up in seconds as the turbo caught up with the amount of fuel being added. The 475 rwhp race tune blew a little more smoke and took a little longer to clear up. The 500 rwhp max effort tune blew even more smoke and took a lot longer to clear up, but it would eventually in the higher rpms.

So to clarify, get air bags? Will I need a sway bar installed or beefed up? May be making a 12hr drive to pick it up, so want to go prepared. Someone also recommended sumo springs. Thoughts?

 

[SouthTexan]

So to clarify, get air bags? Will I need a sway bar installed or beefed up? May be making a 12hr drive to pick it up, so want to go prepared. Someone also recommended sumo springs. Thoughts?

Air bags, Sumo Springs, Timbrens or something else that installs towards the ends of the axles at the bump stops to keep side to side movement stable. I am not sure that an aftermarket sway bar will be much help or work as well.

 

[6.4LMegaMan]

Hi there. Look for my thread a little down about the issues I had with my truck camper and suspension. I ended up installing air bags and am good to go.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Exdeus]

Air bags, Sumo Springs, Timbrens or something else that installs towards the ends of the axles at the bump stops to keep side to side movement stable. I am not sure that an aftermarket sway bar will be much help or work as well.

Appreciate it. I'm looking at both the Timbren and the Sumo Springs now.

Quick question. I will likely install the AEV 3" Dualsport lift. This allows me to maintain my factory payload and ratings. Will these supports still work with that installed?

 

[Exdeus]

Hi there. Look for my thread a little down about the issues I had with my truck camper and suspension. I ended up installing air bags and am good to go.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

I've actually been reading your entire thread! I appreciate it! I'm going to get the AEV suspension system and want to make sure that the Timbren's or Sumo's will work with it. May have to contact AEV to ask.

 

[6.4LMegaMan]

I've actually been reading your entire thread! I appreciate it! I'm going to get the AEV suspension system and want to make sure that the Timbren's or Sumo's will work with it. May have to contact AEV to ask.

Good luck and keep us updated with how it all goes!

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Walkdog]

To all that want a camper bed for truck. Please go at least one ton truck and if best a dually. A lot of these new camper overs are very heavy and putting lift kits on as well to pull stuff like this makes it worse.

 

[Ratket]

Question for the OP... why AEV?

Noting against them, just not the way I would do it, have you looked at other set ups? Like Carli/Thuren? I can under stand the “ Factory Payload”.. but your gonna **** all over that anyways.

@ South Texan... I love how you broke that all down for us.. So crack a beer and break down what violations are had when you fully delete... you know.. the one that’s a federal offense, not Municipal lol.. and what of the EPA Fines... can they be steep?? .. I’m not trying to rouse you bud, just curious is all.

I would like to add that going over a manufacturers payload rating is not against the law and you will never receive a ticket for doing so. Going over the GVWR of what your truck is registered for, however, is against the law and you can be ticketed for going over it.

In Texas, I can register my truck in Class 3 which has a max GVWR of 14k even though the manufacturers GVWR is maxed out at 10k, but I will have to pay twice as much. If I register my truck as 10k GVWR, but get caught hauling something that puts me over that, then I would have to pay the additional registration cost of the GVWR I got caught carrying for all of the years I have owned my truck and have to register for that GVWR from that point on.

 

[Exdeus]

Question for the OP... why AEV?

Noting against them, just not the way I would do it, have you looked at other set ups? Like Carli/Thuren? I can under stand the “ Factory Payload”.. but your gonna **** all over that anyways.

@ South Texan... I love how you broke that all down for us.. So crack a beer and break down what violations are had when you fully delete... you know.. the one that’s a federal offense, not Municipal lol.. and what of the EPA Fines... can they be steep?? .. I’m not trying to rouse you bud, just curious is all.

I have not looked too much into the Carli and Thuren. The only reason is aesthetically i love the AEV kit, and it will allow me to maintain factory payload. Frankly, I read the other day the primary reason the payload is set the way it is on the 3/4 ton trucks is simply due to registration costs for the vehicle to stay under a 10,000 pound GVWR. It has the same rear axle as the 3500 and can likely handle more payload than it is rated for.

With the AEV and an Outfitters camper or a Four Wheel Camper I will be under or at payload. I'm not getting some crazy camper with slides and salons in them. Just a basic shelter with some amenities.

 

[SouthTexan]

@ South Texan... I love how you broke that all down for us.. So crack a beer and break down what violations are had when you fully delete... you know.. the one that’s a federal offense, not Municipal lol.. and what of the EPA Fines... can they be steep?? .. I’m not trying to rouse you bud, just curious is all.

Not really worried about it to be honest. I have never ran into any of these issues when tuning any of my vehicles even gassers, and I have never ran into someone that has. Tuning a gasser has the same penalty since most tunes add power by removing stock tuning made to meet emissions.

I would probably be more worried about if I lived in a place like California, but then again I know many people on the Cummins forums and in real life that have had deleted diesels or modified gassers without ever receiving any kind of fine. I know people talk about fines all the time, but I have to personally know any recieving them besides the tuner themselves or someone advertising their deletes/modifications on social media.

 

[bartbill]

I can't imagine you'd need a tune on a newer truck. I guess I just don't see getting that much of a gain out of it. I have a 14 and its got like 400hp and 800ish tq, I mean do I really need more? I barely use any of it as it is. I think its the fastest thing I've ever owned(kinda sad in a way). You could remove things like the torque management, but that'll just kill the trans eventually. About the only tuning I'd want to do would be to delete emmisions things.

Deleting seems like a different story. Deleting things like the DEF, catalyst and EGR system seem like a much better idea. In theory it should allow the truck to last a long time without any annoying issues. I'm not sure on what downsides that has though. I'm in california so i can't do any of it.

I use my exhaust brake all the time on the highway. I pretty much get in the truck and set it to auto as I start driving. It won't do much under 50mph unless the tow haul mode is on. We have a pretty good grade on my commute so it cycles on and off a few times coming down. I figure it just helps keep anything from getting stuck and helps increase the life of my brake pads. Once again, as far as I know it doesn't harm anything or decrease mpgs so why not?

Kevin

Kevin,

The exhaust brake may be the best thing about the 6.7. We pull mountain passes all the time and use it like you do. Do turn it off on long stretches across the plains. No particular reason, just do. The whole tow-haul/ engine brake system like a well though out design.

 

[BOB RAM 2500]

I added air bags to my 2018 2500 6.4 and it made a world of difference. The truck felt top heavy without them. Looks low in the picture but perfect when on flat ground. 2015 Camp Lite 8.4s camper top. Loved it but now upgraded to a 2019 Cedar Creek 37RTH. Just can't take the boat now. ugh ... Oh btw - Truck camper for sale now with all the fixings plus upgrades inside $18,000. Hope this helps

 

[mtnrider]

I have not looked too much into the Carli and Thuren. The only reason is aesthetically i love the AEV kit, and it will allow me to maintain factory payload.

I would not recommend the Carli or Thuren if you plan on putting a camper in the back. In fact I believe one of them even states that on their site. It's a softer setup and you will get too much body roll with those 2 choices. Good stuff, but made more for those that aren't using a camper or towing real heavy.

.

 

[Elkman]

Take your truck to a CAT scale and have it weighed so you know exactly how much weight is bearing down on the rear tires. My 2500 came with tires rated for 3195@80 PSI and I changed them for ones rated at 375@80 PSI and gained 1100 lbs of payload capacity and got a more stable ride.

Airbags are not a good idea with a small slide in camper and should not be needed if you stay within the payload capacity of the truck. Good for towing a 5th wheel to adjust the height of the bed but will increase sway with a camper in the bed.

The little pop-up campers are OK but you will have a much smaller fridge, a porta-potty for a toilet, much less water storage and less gray and black water storage. You also lose a great deal of storage space with a pop-up camper.

Lots of RV specific forums and strongly suggest you spend some time checking them out before investing in a camper. With some models it is possible to find used ones for sale on craigslist and save more than 50%. Someone who bought the camper in 2010 probably paid 25% less than the current price of the new campers and it is a used camper to the total savings can be considerable.

 

[Exdeus]

Take your truck to a CAT scale and have it weighed so you know exactly how much weight is bearing down on the rear tires. My 2500 came with tires rated for 3195@80 PSI and I changed them for ones rated at 375@80 PSI and gained 1100 lbs of payload capacity and got a more stable ride.

Airbags are not a good idea with a small slide in camper and should not be needed if you stay within the payload capacity of the truck. Good for towing a 5th wheel to adjust the height of the bed but will increase sway with a camper in the bed.

The little pop-up campers are OK but you will have a much smaller fridge, a porta-potty for a toilet, much less water storage and less gray and black water storage. You also lose a great deal of storage space with a pop-up camper.

Lots of RV specific forums and strongly suggest you spend some time checking them out before investing in a camper. With some models it is possible to find used ones for sale on craigslist and save more than 50%. Someone who bought the camper in 2010 probably paid 25% less than the current price of the new campers and it is a used camper to the total savings can be considerable.

Appreciate the insight. We have been to several shops looking them over. For what we need, offroad and off-grid type exploration, we think the pop-top gives us a bit lower center of gravity as well as a couple hundred pounds of weight savings. We are thinking at this point we are going to place an order with Bundutec USA. Cannot seem to find a used one that we want at the moment, but will probably keep looking for a few more weeks before we pull the final trigger.