For the guys who think deactivating the mds via a tune is a good idea

[mikeru]

Isn't Porsche's reputation pretty strong in that arena? I know they aren't really a mainstream company, but the few folks I know who own them are generally pretty strong on the total ownership experience. Much more so than anyone else, anyway.

Of course, that's a game you pay to play. I looked at the Cayenne but ultimately decided I'd rather keep a sports car and a truck vs a performance SUV, especially at the money they want for them.

You could be right about Porsche. I have no experience with them. I'd have to drive almost 5 hours to get to the closest dealership so I haven't even considered looking at those. I guess I was talking about more mainstream car makers. I can't even tell you the last time I saw a Porsche where I live. You might be able to say the same about Maserati as well. Most people only dream about owning those cars LOL.

 

[markabby]

I thought about this as well. My comment was short sided. Just thinking, how long does an average new car buyer keep it? Lets say 7 years. The original owner would never know if the lifespan was 10 years. Would think it's a great reliable car and buy again. Not everyone is as educated as you and others or even care to know.

that got me thinking....what would the total cost of a car or truck be from the showroom floor, to a few other buyers over the years until it ends up being crushed into a square at the junk yard?

obviously banks are making a killing on interest rates for each loan thru out the years. another conspiracy going on. lol

 

[Docwagon1776]

You could be right about Porsche. I have no experience with them. I'd have to drive almost 5 hours to get to the closest dealership so I haven't even considered looking at those. I guess I was talking about more mainstream car makers. I can't even tell you the last time I saw a Porsche where I live. You might be able to say the same about Maserati as well. Most people only dream about owning those cars LOL.

I think the last mainstream company that tried to compete on owner experience was Saturn. Didn't pan out, obviously, but they did have a nice dealership experience.

 

[mikeru]

I think the last mainstream company that tried to compete on owner experience was Saturn. Didn't pan out, obviously, but they did have a nice dealership experience.

Saturn's biggest problem is that they were tied to GM. And was eliminated when GM took the bailouts and eliminated several car brands.

 

[Lsujker]

I think the last mainstream company that tried to compete on owner experience was Saturn.

Saturn had locked prices right?

Isn't Porsche's reputation pretty strong in that arena? I know they aren't really a mainstream company, but the few folks I know who own them are generally pretty strong on the total ownership experience. Much more so than anyone else, anyway.

Porsche is interesting. Typically graded very high on reliability scores. I know no one who keeps them with high miles and usually a second vehicle. Curious who the people are rating them. Love to hear some high mileage stories.

Ever seen that show wheeler dealer. They have purchased a few over the years and all with known problems. They usually fix them prior to it being an issue. Would be the same if they purchased a hemi and swapped the cam before imploding. I don’t believe Porsche is more reliable.

Side note, hate the phrase “they don’t make them like the use to”. They are more reliable now but fixing them has become expensive and complicated.

 

[Lsujker]

Saturn's biggest problem is that they were tied to GM. And was eliminated when GM took the bailouts and eliminated several car brands.

Rest in piece Pontiac… but not you Aztek and your little pop out tent too.

 

[Wild one]

Side note, hate the phrase “they don’t make them like the use to”. They are more reliable now but fixing them has become expensive and complicated.

Alot of that wear on older vehicles,leads back to 3 speed automatics or 4 speed manual trans,where high gear is 1:1,and the rear gears were 3.50 or lower. Rolling down the road at 60 mph put alot of older vehicles at 3500+ rpm.
Engines are built to tighter tolerances with better cylinder wall machining practices and lower tension ring packs,then they used to be,but how much that contributes to better reliability over and above the fact older vehicles ran alot more revs per mile then they do now,i wonder

 

[Docwagon1776]

Alot of that wear on older vehicles,leads back to 3 speed automatics or 4 speed manual trans,where high gear is 1:1,and the rear gears were 3.50 or lower. Rolling down the road at 60 mph put alot of older vehicles at 3500+ rpm.
Engines are built to tighter tolerances with better cylinder wall machining practices and lower tension ring packs,then they used to be,but how much that contributes to better reliability over above the fact older vehicles ran alot more revs per mile then they do now,i wonder

Likely better lubricants and filters as well.

I remember getting my first 6 speed manual and being amazed that the car was basically idling at 65mph.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Saturn had locked prices right?

Porsche is interesting. Typically graded very high on reliability scores. I know no one who keeps them with high miles and usually a second vehicle. Curious who the people are rating them. Love to hear some high mileage stories.

Ever seen that show wheeler dealer. They have purchased a few over the years and all with known problems. They usually fix them prior to it being an issue. Would be the same if they purchased a hemi and swapped the cam before imploding. I don’t believe Porsche is more reliable.

Side note, hate the phrase “they don’t make them like the use to”. They are more reliable now but fixing them has become expensive and complicated.

Saturn did have fixed prices, which was a result of marketing research that didn't go far enough. A huge percentage of people ranked 'haggling' as one of the worst parts of the car buying experience. What GM missed was the follow-up question. Do you think you can get a good deal without haggling? Had they asked that they would have realized that people hated haggling but hated feeling like they over payed even more and viewed it as a necessary evil in the car buying process. That really limited Saturn's potential customer base right out of the gate. They were decent little cars with some real innovations for the time period and, as said, the dealership experience was pretty pleasant.

Porsche reliability is actually pretty solid in many models. High mileage Cayenne SUVs are a great example. It's nothing to see them on the used market with 150k+ miles.

 

[04fxdwgi]

I think the last mainstream company that tried to compete on owner experience was Saturn. Didn't pan out, obviously, but they did have a nice dealership experience.

My $0.02, When I bought my '18 Caddy CT6 Platinum, the dealer in Westchester NY was 1st class. Put customer 1st, or at least made the customer feel like 1st. Was the best car buying experience of my life. After sale service was 2nd to none. Wife bought a Caddy from them too.

It's not the brand, it is the dealer, as the Caddy dealers / service departments I have dealt with down here in NC are typical used car salesmen / service depts.

But, alas, both Caddy's are gone now since it is so difficult (read that as at a minimum a 90 minute drive each way) to get to even a lousy dealer for them.

 

[DeckArtist]

I'm not sure what you're saying, you turned off MDS until your second valve spring broke?

But what about 95% of lifter/valve spring failures which occur on guys who just get in and drive? This forum is not representative of how these hemis are failing, most people are keeping MDS enabled and still getting failures.

I am not up to date on all the percentages. I just figured the problem was exactly what the other post had said, that turning off MDS can be a problem. Never said it was the only cause of failure, just that's what I am thinking caused mine....hope this clears it up.

 

[mikeru]

My $0.02, When I bought my '18 Caddy CT6 Platinum, the dealer in Westchester NY was 1st class. Put customer 1st, or at least made the customer feel like 1st. Was the best car buying experience of my life. After sale service was 2nd to none. Wife bought a Caddy from them too.

It's not the brand, it is the dealer, as the Caddy dealers / service departments I have dealt with down here in NC are typical used car salesmen / service depts.

But, alas, both Caddy's are gone now since it is so difficult (read that as at a minimum a 90 minute drive each way) to get to even a lousy dealer for them.

You're absolutely right, especially about the car buying experience. That's all about the dealership. And regular service/maintenance is within the dealership's control as well.

I'm talking more about when something goes wrong. While the vehicle is under the original factory warranty there aren't usually problems with getting things repaired under that warranty. It's when you have to deal directly with Stellantis that the customer service problems come to the surface. Case in point, the warranty extension for the rear windows on early 5th gens. The TSB that was released stated that the extension covers 2019 thru some 2021's with the sliding rear window. But I've seen lots of people who've posted that the VIN for their 2019 isn't included. They have the same cracks in the window frame that are pictured in the TSB. But Stellantis refuses to even explain why their trucks aren't included. That's just one example where even taking the time to explain to customers "why" is beyond their ability. There are many other examples I could give, but this post is long enough already. In the end, poor customer service, especially at the corporate level, makes a customer seriously consider another brand for their next purchase. Grass is always greener syndrome LOL.

 

[markabby]

I gotta question: isn't oil flowing thru the whole engine, around the cam and lifters regardless if the MDS is off or on? I can't believe turning off or on MDS is going to stop the flow of oil around critical components. yes...no?


If there's cam wear issues, has any one ever had it tested for hardness in the worn areas? If i remember years ago i believe chevy (?) had a soft cam issue.

 

[mikeru]

I gotta question: isn't oil flowing thru the whole engine, around the cam and lifters regardless if the MDS is off or on? I can't believe turning off or on MDS is going to stop the flow of oil around critical components. yes...no?


If there's cam wear issues, has any one ever had it tested for hardness in the worn areas? If i remember years ago i believe chevy (?) had a soft cam issue.

Yes, there is oil flow regardless of the state of MDS. There is more, higher pressure oil flowing to the lifter bores during MDS opetation.

I realize this thread is getting kind of long, and sometimes goes off track. But this has been mentioned a few times in this thread if you'd like to go back and read through it.

 

[RamDiver]

I gotta question: isn't oil flowing thru the whole engine, around the cam and lifters regardless if the MDS is off or on?

Yes, there is oil flow regardless of the state of MDS. There is more, higher pressure oil flowing to the lifter bores during MDS opetation.

I realize this thread is getting kind of long, and sometimes goes off track. But this has been mentioned a few times in this thread if you'd like to go back and read through it.

16 PSI with MDS on & 3 PSI with MDS off?

.

 

[Wild one]

16 PSI with MDS on & 3 PSI with MDS off?

.

I might agree with the 3 psi,but i don't agree with the 16 psi when the solenoids are activated. When you're in MDS mode,there should be the same pressure in the whole system,so if your truck runs down the road at say 57 psi at highway speeds,there's going to be 57 psi at the lifter bores to.

 

[mikeru]

16 PSI with MDS on & 3 PSI with MDS off?

.

I've read it's more like 8 psi with MDS off. I don't personally know. But I do know that if it was insufficient there's be a lot more engine failures because of the number of people who disable MDS, and because of people with commutes like mine where MDS is almost never on for the trip home. Which is mostly uphill.

 

[RamDiver]

I've read it's more like 8 psi with MDS off. I don't personally know. But I do know that if it was insufficient there's be a lot more engine failures because of the number of people who disable MDS, and because of people with commutes like mine where MDS is almost never on for the trip home. Which is mostly uphill.

8 PSI makes more sense, I'm not sure why 16 jumped into my head and out of my keyboard.

.

 

[Black1500Ram]

I swapped plastic yokes for billet on my Harley when upgraded cam. Plastics have no endurance fatigue limit and age harden. But - they're cheap! Even the more expensive composites, compared to billet metal.
Thr lifter guides in the bike looked like polypheneylenesulfide PPS, which is about as good a plastic as there is, but still.

What are your thoughts on long term wear characteristics for another metal part in the engine? (billet yokes)

 

[Wild one]

8 PSI makes more sense, I'm not sure why 16 jumped into my head and out of my keyboard.

.

That was posted on that link several posts back.