For the guys who think deactivating the mds via a tune is a good idea

[crazykid1994]

I can attest to lack of use being the killer. My truck was driven once a week or every few weeks to go get groceries. Had a lifter collapse from lack of use. MDS was disabled in a tune for about 30,000 miles and had always shut it off manually with the gear select prior to tuning. Cam and lifters looked pristine and no wear marks. All the rollers looked great. In fact my engine looks pristine inside but I also switched between redline and pup 5w30. Ran the zinc additive in my oil a few times. Regular 1 year oil changes and maybe that’s 5000 miles on the oil a year. 55000 miles on the truck. Just swapped in a non mds cam and 16 all new non mds lifters. Truck actually runs quieter now with the mds solenoid delete plugs allowing that extra oil flow. I always thought my lifters seemed excessively noisy and that goes to show they were extra noisy due to lack of lubrication to them. No more dry lifter startup tick either which is crazy

 

[rickjkline]

I don't know if i'd say its a recipe for failure,as lots of guys do defeat it,and make lots of miles with it defeated,but it's definitely not the right way to delete it.
As evidenced by this thread,there are quite a few guys who are defeating it with the +/- buttons on the steering wheel,and haven't seen any issues.
I think a bigger recipe for failure is not staying on top of your oil change intervals,and using a good quality oil filter,and long idle times.
There is a caveat though,as i don't know of anybody who's deleted it via just a tune or using the steering wheel buttons,and made a 100,000+ miles,with-out a lifter failure.
I'm hoping somebody who has made it over a 100,000 miles with MDS deleted via a tune,and hasn't had a lifter failure,will post.
Im curious if anybody has turned it off via a tune at say 60 or 70,000 miles and then made it to 160,000+ miles with it just defeated via a tune

Im running an MDS delete with my tuner and have since around 70k, I now have over 177k on my Ram with Synthetic oil changes since new. no issues thus far and I hate that MDS sound and lag. Hope this helps.

 

[Wild one]

...and don't forget to spoil your truck with timely visits to the Spa, er carwash for it's beauty treatments!

You mean something like this,lol. My old truck at 10 years old with 60,000 miles on it.

 

[ramffml]

I can attest to lack of use being the killer. My truck was driven once a week or every few weeks to go get groceries. Had a lifter collapse from lack of use. MDS was disabled in a tune for about 30,000 miles and had always shut it off manually with the gear select prior to tuning. Cam and lifters looked pristine and no wear marks. All the rollers looked great. In fact my engine looks pristine inside but I also switched between redline and pup 5w30. Ran the zinc additive in my oil a few times. Regular 1 year oil changes and maybe that’s 5000 miles on the oil a year. 55000 miles on the truck. Just swapped in a non mds cam and 16 all new non mds lifters. Truck actually runs quieter now with the mds solenoid delete plugs allowing that extra oil flow. I always thought my lifters seemed excessively noisy and that goes to show they were extra noisy due to lack of lubrication to them. No more dry lifter startup tick either which is crazy

With respect, I don't think you can make that claim about lack of use being the killer. You're drawing a conclusion based on how you used the truck, but that doesn't prove that if you had used MDS you wouldn't have had lifter failure.

We know that 99% of lifter failures happen to people who just get in their truck and drive, which means MDS is activating for the vast majority of lifter failures.

I don't believe MDS has anything to do with lifter failures one way or the other. Failures happen to those engines with MDS and where MDS is used, and it happens to those engines with MDS and where it is not used, and it happens to engines without MDS.

 

[ramffml]

You mean something like this,lol. My old truck at 10 years old with 60,000 miles on it.

That's clean!

 

[Wild one]

That's clean!

I'm not scared to open the hood and wash the hell out of the engine and bottom side of my vehicles at the carwash,like alot of guys on here seem to be,lol

 

[CBake]

I would surmise that most of the over all failures to date are statistically owners who have either not deleted the lifters or never turn off mds. So im doubting this one. I’ll be the guinea pig. Been turning mine off everytime i get on the highway and always will. 20K miles with it being off as of now. I also pretty much never idle. If im going to sit more than a minute, im in neutral at 1200 or so.

Agree here…I’m no engine guru and i did no statistical analysis but math tell me this much… the seemingly disproportionate number of issues with the 5.7 MDS engines is because there are far more 5.7 MDS set ups out there. I’d also venture a guess that 90%+ of drivers don’t know what MDS is or how / when / why to turn it off, so it’s still operational on most of these vehicles. Quite simply, there are just more 5.7s with functioning MDS on the road than any of the alternative set ups. There are fewer observed issues with non-MDS, but that’s not that there is a lesser PERCENTAGE of issues with that set up.
If we had real data on the total number of each sold vs the total number of each with issues, we could have a real determination of whether the 5.7 or the 6.4 or the MDS is the actual culprit in terms of the likelihood of failure. We don’t, so debate rages.

The cam, lifter and lubrication is common to all. Somewhere in there is the key…. This site has convinced me of that. I’m all over obsessively and compulsively changing oil and I’ll watch the idle time….because why not? I’m probably not springing for cam and lifters until such a thing is necessary.

As for the MDS, I default to using things as they were designed to be used. I don’t drive screws with a hammer and I don’t grab a chainsaw in place of a file, so I’ll probably leave MDS as they intended… although I do understand the reasoning / desire to delete it entirely if you can make that investment.

I’m in a new to me 2016 Big Horn 5.7 RWD. 33,800 miles, 1083 driving hours and 195 idle hours. Someone else mentioned rarely driven being a concern so I’ll be a test case for that, too, but it’s a daily driver now.

Finally, I just want to say that I love the information on this site and I appreciate the knowledgeable contributions from everyone. I must admit, however, I am starting to obsess… each morning I run here to start reading about what broke on my truck last night! Gonna have to figure a way to get that anxiety in check…

 

[JHoward]

Agree here…I’m no engine guru and i did no statistical analysis but math tell me this much… the seemingly disproportionate number of issues with the 5.7 MDS engines is because there are far more 5.7 MDS set ups out there. I’d also venture a guess that 90%+ of drivers don’t know what MDS is or how / when / why to turn it off, so it’s still operational on most of these vehicles. Quite simply, there are just more 5.7s with functioning MDS on the road than any of the alternative set ups. There are fewer observed issues with non-MDS, but that’s not that there is a lesser PERCENTAGE of issues with that set up.
If we had real data on the total number of each sold vs the total number of each with issues, we could have a real determination of whether the 5.7 or the 6.4 or the MDS is the actual culprit in terms of the likelihood of failure. We don’t, so debate rages.

The cam, lifter and lubrication is common to all. Somewhere in there is the key…. This site has convinced me of that. I’m all over obsessively and compulsively changing oil and I’ll watch the idle time….because why not? I’m probably not springing for cam and lifters until such a thing is necessary.

As for the MDS, I default to using things as they were designed to be used. I don’t drive screws with a hammer and I don’t grab a chainsaw in place of a file, so I’ll probably leave MDS as they intended… although I do understand the reasoning / desire to delete it entirely if you can make that investment.

I’m in a new to me 2016 Big Horn 5.7 RWD. 33,800 miles, 1083 driving hours and 195 idle hours. Someone else mentioned rarely driven being a concern so I’ll be a test case for that, too, but it’s a daily driver now.

Finally, I just want to say that I love the information on this site and I appreciate the knowledgeable contributions from everyone. I must admit, however, I am starting to obsess… each morning I run here to start reading about what broke on my truck last night! Gonna have to figure a way to get that anxiety in check…

And, what I've read about the VVT that was introduced ~2009 model years 5.7 HEMI engine, where the cam has been repositioned higher in the engine block, lower engine idle speed ~650rpm limiting "oil splash" from lubricating the cam/lifters ...

 

[ffeschjeff]

And, what I've read about the VVT that was introduced ~2009 model years 5.7 HEMI engine, where the cam has been repositioned higher in the engine block, lower engine idle speed ~650rpm limiting "oil splash" from lubricating the cam/lifters ...

i've been looking for the video but i saw one that showed the design of the HEMI and that there is only like a 1/2" gap for oil to splash up on the cam. otherwise the only time the MDS lifters actually get oil is when the MDS is activated. i'm trying to find the video and i'll link it.

Is MDS Damaging Your HEMI? The Answer May Surprise You!

I feel like MDS has been unfairly made the culprit for the lifter failures we see on Gen 3 Hemi engines. In this video I explain exactly how the system works...

www.youtube.com

around the 13 min mark but good info all the way through

 

[Wild one]

Agree here…I’m no engine guru and i did no statistical analysis but math tell me this much… the seemingly disproportionate number of issues with the 5.7 MDS engines is because there are far more 5.7 MDS set ups out there. I’d also venture a guess that 90%+ of drivers don’t know what MDS is or how / when / why to turn it off, so it’s still operational on most of these vehicles. Quite simply, there are just more 5.7s with functioning MDS on the road than any of the alternative set ups. There are fewer observed issues with non-MDS, but that’s not that there is a lesser PERCENTAGE of issues with that set up.
If we had real data on the total number of each sold vs the total number of each with issues, we could have a real determination of whether the 5.7 or the 6.4 or the MDS is the actual culprit in terms of the likelihood of failure. We don’t, so debate rages.

The cam, lifter and lubrication is common to all. Somewhere in there is the key…. This site has convinced me of that. I’m all over obsessively and compulsively changing oil and I’ll watch the idle time….because why not? I’m probably not springing for cam and lifters until such a thing is necessary.

As for the MDS, I default to using things as they were designed to be used. I don’t drive screws with a hammer and I don’t grab a chainsaw in place of a file, so I’ll probably leave MDS as they intended… although I do understand the reasoning / desire to delete it entirely if you can make that investment.

I’m in a new to me 2016 Big Horn 5.7 RWD. 33,800 miles, 1083 driving hours and 195 idle hours. Someone else mentioned rarely driven being a concern so I’ll be a test case for that, too, but it’s a daily driver now.

Finally, I just want to say that I love the information on this site and I appreciate the knowledgeable contributions from everyone. I must admit, however, I am starting to obsess… each morning I run here to start reading about what broke on my truck last night! Gonna have to figure a way to get that anxiety in check…

I wouldn't worry to much,when you consider the millions of Hemi's on the road that are never really well maintained ,but still make it to 200,000+ miles with out issues,a well maintained one,that gets drove hard usually doesn't give to many issues.The worst thing you can do to a hemi,is drive it like Grandma,use that skinny pedal like you stole the truck,lol

 

[CanuckRam1313]

I'm not scared to open the hood and wash the hell out of the engine and bottom side of my vehicles at the carwash,like alot of guys on here seem to be,lol

100%
I use Simple Green on a cold (or lukewarm) engine.
Let it sit for 5 min, and then spray her down (fuse box cover lid is always on when cleaning the engine).
Then take her for a good romp on the highway.
When I get back I let her cool down and then spray my alternator, fuses, connectors, and computer with a touch up of Krown in a can.

Similarly, when I annually Krown my truck I open up the fuse box under the hood and have them soak everything, including all the connectors underneath.

Spray my alternator, computer, and every single connector under there, plus the block, etc. My entire engine is soaked from top to bottom.

Never an issue at all.

 

[crazykid1994]

With respect, I don't think you can make that claim about lack of use being the killer. You're drawing a conclusion based on how you used the truck, but that doesn't prove that if you had used MDS you wouldn't have had lifter failure.

We know that 99% of lifter failures happen to people who just get in their truck and drive, which means MDS is activating for the vast majority of lifter failures.

I don't believe MDS has anything to do with lifter failures one way or the other. Failures happen to those engines with MDS and where MDS is used, and it happens to those engines with MDS and where it is not used, and it happens to engines without MDS.

Sorry. I didn’t mean mds killed my truck or lack of use of mds killed my truck. I was very tired typing that. Lack of using my truck killed my lifter because it bled down and wouldn’t pump back up with the truck running even running the throttle up and holding it around 3000 rpm. What I meant to say was not using mds does reduce oil flow into the lifters which I have now realized after doing my cam swap that my lifters are much quieter than prior to the mds delete plugs. The mds delete plugs should definitely be a thought when going the route of disabling the mds system but it is a lot of work that some people would like to avoid. I went roughly 50,000 miles not using the mds and the lifters were noticeably chatty and with the extra oil flow to the lifters are now very quiet. No the mds system

 

[CanuckRam1313]

I wouldn't worry to much,when you consider the millions of Hemi's on the road that are never really well maintained ,but still make it to 200,000+ miles with out issues,a well maintained one,that gets drove hard usually doesn't give to many issues.The worst thing you can do to a hemi,is drive it like Grandma,use that skinny pedal like you stole the truck,lol

Yep, if you don't you'll be continually driving in Granny-Mode.

The adaptive learning enjoys a spanking on the regular to provide those crisp shifts and lively engine responses we so dearly appreciate our HEMI's for

 

[CBake]

I wouldn't worry to much,when you consider the millions of Hemi's on the road that are never really well maintained ,but still make it to 200,000+ miles with out issues,a well maintained one,that gets drove hard usually doesn't give to many issues.The worst thing you can do to a hemi,is drive it like Grandma,use that skinny pedal like you stole the truck,lol

That’s the plan I like best…
- change oil
- drive like I stole it
- change oil

 

[Wild one]

100%
I use Simple Green on a cold (or lukewarm) engine.
Let it sit for 5 min, and then spray her down (fuse box cover lid is always on when cleaning the engine).
Then take her for a good romp on the highway.
When I get back I let her cool down and then spray my alternator, fuses, connectors, and computer with a touch up of Krown in a can.

Similarly, when I annually Krown my truck I open up the fuse box under the hood and have them soak everything, including all the connectors underneath.

Spray my alternator, computer, and every single connector under there, plus the block, etc. My entire engine is soaked from top to bottom.

Never an issue at all.

My buddy owns the carwash i use,and i open the hood when i get there,and wash the living hell out of everything under the hood,and on the bottem side,then i let it sit while i spend probably an hour drying it inside the bay,before starting it. Helps knowing the right people,he's also my go to lawyer,whenever i need something signed by a commissioner,as he doesn't charge me anything to sign paperwork,but i usually owe him a bunch of the wifes homemade baking,lol.I'm also good buddies with one of the local top cops in the city,and knowing him,has got my ass off a few speeding tickets,as the traffic guys know who i am as soon as they run the plates,and phone him instead of writing me a ticket,then he phones me and chews my ass out,and asks when the wifes making more of her cookies,lol Knowing the right people and keeping them buttered up makes a world of differance in the amount of money you spend,lol

 

[JHoward]

Sorry. I didn’t mean mds killed my truck or lack of use of mds killed my truck. I was very tired typing that. Lack of using my truck killed my lifter because it bled down and wouldn’t pump back up with the truck running even running the throttle up and holding it around 3000 rpm. What I meant to say was not using mds does reduce oil flow into the lifters which I have now realized after doing my cam swap that my lifters are much quieter than prior to the mds delete plugs. The mds delete plugs should definitely be a thought when going the route of disabling the mds system but it is a lot of work that some people would like to avoid. I went roughly 50,000 miles not using the mds and the lifters were noticeably chatty and with the extra oil flow to the lifters are now very quiet. No the mds system

Ok, explain to me when towing and using tow-haul mode, MDS is inactive, or so I've read. Wouldn't that be just as bad or worse because the solenoids are "by-passed" for optimal engine performance?

 

[Wild one]

Ok, explain to me when towing and using tow-haul mode, MDS is inactive, or so I've read. Wouldn't that be just as bad or worse because the solenoids are "by-passed" for optimal engine performance?

Usually the engines working harder,and in a lower gear when towing,so the rpms are increased a fair bit.

 

[crazykid1994]

Ok, explain to me when towing and using tow-haul mode, MDS is inactive, or so I've read. Wouldn't that be just as bad or worse because the solenoids are "by-passed" for optimal engine performance?

The mds solenoids use oil pressure to disengage. When the engine is running on all 8 cylinders the solenoids are blocking the oil flow to the lifter bore. When the engine is in 4 cylinder mode the solenoids are allowing oil flow to the lifter bore. The mds lifters will collapse when the lifter bore is pressurized. Removing the mds solenoid allows for full oil flow all the time but only is possible when you use non mds lifters. Usually when towing the engine stays in 8 cylinder mode which has the oil flow cut off to the lifter bore. Usually when towing your engine rpm’s will be higher which raises your oil pressure and increases oil volume through the engine. The lifters are oiled through the rockers and down the pushrods. In my case now my lifter bores are directly receiving oil all the time because of the bypass plugs. More oil generally means less friction. If the mds solenoid allowed full oil flow in v8 mode less people would be running bypass plugs or complaining.

 

[Wild one]

i've been looking for the video but i saw one that showed the design of the HEMI and that there is only like a 1/2" gap for oil to splash up on the cam. otherwise the only time the MDS lifters actually get oil is when the MDS is activated. i'm trying to find the video and i'll link it.

Is MDS Damaging Your HEMI? The Answer May Surprise You!

I feel like MDS has been unfairly made the culprit for the lifter failures we see on Gen 3 Hemi engines. In this video I explain exactly how the system works...

www.youtube.com

around the 13 min mark but good info all the way through

Don't believe everything you read or hear,as there's a pile of oil being flung around inside the crankcase,and alot of it still makes it onto the cam lobes.Case in point,is how much a catch can catches,and it's located way above the cam.

 

[Sherman Bird]

100%
I use Simple Green on a cold (or lukewarm) engine.
Let it sit for 5 min, and then spray her down (fuse box cover lid is always on when cleaning the engine).
Then take her for a good romp on the highway.
When I get back I let her cool down and then spray my alternator, fuses, connectors, and computer with a touch up of Krown in a can.

Similarly, when I annually Krown my truck I open up the fuse box under the hood and have them soak everything, including all the connectors underneath.

Spray my alternator, computer, and every single connector under there, plus the block, etc. My entire engine is soaked from top to bottom.

Never an issue at all.

Purple Power is good also!