For the guys who think deactivating the mds via a tune is a good idea

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

BLUKTY2

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2017
Posts
113
Reaction score
185
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Hemi 6.4
The whole purpose of this thread is to educate guys more then anything.I've been against defeating mds for a few years,but i usually get more static then anything. Hopefully when outfits like MMX and Re-ignited point out the downfalls,more guys will think about whether they want to defeat it everytime they drive their Hemi's.
Thank you for taking the time to provide the members of this forum with this information. I know that I am not the only one who appreciates it!
 

mikeru

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Posts
2,990
Reaction score
4,224
Location
The Palouse
Ram Year
2020 Limited
Engine
Hemi 5.7L non-Etorque
Watch Reignited's video,it explains it even better then MMX's article does Mike. Common sense would tell you,that shutting off oil flow to the lifter bores isn't doing the lifters any good.The little bit of oil that does make it past the lifter and it's bore,and hopefully onto the cam lobe is going to be diminished.Remember the engine is only designed to run long enough to make it past the warrenty,after that the manufacture doesn't really care about the consumer.You'll also notice they used to have 100,000 mile warrenty,now its down to a 60,000 mile warrenty on the trucks.So instead of fixing known issues,they decided to drop the warrenty milege,and pass the buck onto the consumer. I have no skin in this game,all i'm trying to do is point out the obvious to alot of guys who'd never considered how the mds affects the oil flow path inside the hemi. My truck has been properly deleted,but my 2 cars that still have their original cams/lifters,still employ mds,and i could easily deactivate it on on both if i wanted,but that's not going to happen as long as i own them,or they still have their stock cams. I don't leave it activated for milege,i leave it activated for oil flow to the outside of the lifter,as lifter bore scoring is not something i'm interested in dealing with,and the fact there is going to be more flow past the lifter is not a bad thing.I also don't subscribe to the theory mds causes more wear on the engine,as that ones a myth and nobody has ever proven there's any more wear on the cylinders or bearings with or with-out mds. If you prefer to defeat mds everytime you drive the truck,that's your call,but at least you'll have learned a bit more about how the oil path operates in a Hemi
You're just determined to make me get off my lazy ass and do some of my own research aren't you Rick?:hahano:

I'm not as familiar with how the MDS lifters operate as I need to be for this discussion. My understanding of how they work is oil pressure does activate/deactivate them, but the oil used for that is not part of the lubrication system for those lifters. And they are instead lubricated in the same manner as the non-MDS lifters. That's an important detail to understand. If they did indeed design it so that the only lubrication MDS lifters receive comes from the oil used to enable/disable them (besides what's splashed up from the crank), it's definitely a huge oversight on the part of the Hemi engine design team, as the amount of time that MDS is disabled can be significant even if you don't manually disable it.

I'd like to see the design docs for these lifters. No disrespect to anyone who has made videos or published articles about them. Where I work we believe in the expression, in god we trust; all others must bring data.
 

ramffml

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2019
Posts
2,905
Reaction score
5,409
Location
ramforum
Ram Year
2019
Engine
hemi 5.7
I'm firmly in the "this is not as true as it sounds" camp as I've reached 60,000 miles with MDS disabled for about 59,000 miles. If MDS was that important for proper lifter lubrication then my truck must just love me or something as I don't see how it would last that long without proper lube. And its done a bit of towing too, so even more strain for hours on end without lubrication??

MDS is staying off for me. It sounds buttery smooth on HPL, and all the UOA's I've been doing (7 of them) indicate that wear is going down.

It just doesn't add up for me.
 
OP
OP
W

Wild one

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
14,342
Reaction score
25,093
Ram Year
14 Sport
Engine
5.7
No possible way to look under intake with borescope to confirm MDS solenoids haven't been replaced with plugs I assume??? ☹️
Not unless you can remove one eyeball and slide it under the intake from the back,lol. The funny thing though ,when i pulled the intake off my truck for the very first time,i found a peanut shell under it. We have a couple annoying little squirrels in my neighbourhood,and to this day,i have no clue how one of the little b^stArds managed to get under the manifold with a peanut and then get back out.I've never had any chewed wires on any of my vehicles from them,but the peanut shell incident still has me scratching my head.The only other explanation i could come up with is maybe it was dropped there,when the engine was assembled,but i find that also hard to believe.It's one of those mysteries that i'll probably never solve,lol.
The intake isn't really all that hard to pull CJ,you can leave the fuel rails/injectors in place,and the SRV at the back of the manifold hooked up.if you just want to lift it enough to see under it,after you've removed the 10 bolts that hold it in place ,just don't go hog wild sliding it around,otherwise you might disturb the intake runner O-rings
 

Bmags

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2021
Posts
235
Reaction score
170
Location
Minneapolis
Ram Year
2019 classic
Spend about 16 minutes watching Reigniteds video,it explains it pretty well,and you can draw your own conclusions from it.
Disabling it at the wheel,definitely isn't doing your lifters any good though.

Every thread I see you in you are either pitching your paddle shifters or this video (or both). Starting to think you made the video yourself and are using the forum to generate YouTube income. :)

Like @ramffml... I have been MDS free for miles and if it was a design issue as prevalent as all these folks make it out to be then our experiences wouldn't be possible.
 
OP
OP
W

Wild one

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
14,342
Reaction score
25,093
Ram Year
14 Sport
Engine
5.7
You're just determined to make me get off my lazy ass and do some of my own research aren't you Rick?:hahano:
That's all i'm trying to do Mike is help educate guys,and if they want to do more research,and find out more about the system,that makes my day even better.The more knowledge we have,the better we can understand the pitfalls of the hemi. I'm hoping other guys also do some research and also post their findings here
Reigniteds video explains it better then MMX's article does,and is worth spending the 16 minutes it takes to watch.
 

crackerjack1957

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Posts
2,066
Reaction score
2,487
Ram Year
2014 Sport 1500 CC 4x4
Engine
Hemi 5.7...65RFE...4.56
Not unless you can remove one eyeball and slide it under the intake from the back,lol. The funny thing though ,when i pulled the intake off my truck for the very first time,i found a peanut shell under it. We have a couple annoying little squirrels in my neighbourhood,and to this day,i have no clue how one of the little b^stArds managed to get under the manifold with a peanut and then get back out.I've never had any chewed wires on any of my vehicles from them,but the peanut shell incident still has me scratching my head.The only other explanation i could come up with is maybe it was dropped there,when the engine was assembled,but i find that also hard to believe.It's one of those mysteries that i'll probably never solve,lol.
The intake isn't really all that hard to pull CJ,you can leave the fuel rails/injectors in place,and the SRV at the back of the manifold hooked up.if you just want to lift it enough to see under it,after you've removed the 10 bolts that hold it in place ,just don't go hog wild sliding it around,otherwise you might disturb the intake runner O-rings
I'm willing to bet this week's paycheck the solenoids still there.
I didn't buy the plugs & I'm sure Petty's didn't give them to me for free.

From the videos I have seen they pretty much break off trying to remove.
 
OP
OP
W

Wild one

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
14,342
Reaction score
25,093
Ram Year
14 Sport
Engine
5.7
I apologize for my buddy Bmag guys,he seems to be on a slander path again.
Not much i can do about it,but i do appreciate the love he gives me ,makes me feel all warm and fuzzy:waytogo: :Big Laugh:
 

CanuckRam1313

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2022
Posts
1,258
Reaction score
2,737
Location
Ontario Canada
Ram Year
2023 Warlock SLT
Engine
5.7
The whole purpose of this thread is to educate guys more then anything.I've been against defeating mds for a few years,but i usually get more static then anything. Hopefully when outfits like MMX and Re-ignited point out the downfalls,more guys will think about whether they want to defeat it everytime they drive their Hemi's.
I couldn't agree with you more, Brother!
Knowledge is a very powerful thing!!

Nor do I disagree that the merit of technical proof is inherently present that merely disabling MDS on our 5.7 HEMI's (and others) could potentially cause failures.

I for one appreciate that you advocate for the technically proven merits of why one should NOT merely disable ones MDS via a gear selector and/or tune.

But instead, do it properly via non-MDS lifters, plugs, (non-MDS cam is also the real way to go), and then tune ones engine properly afterwards....

Perhaps, for my circumstance only... I may go this route and invest the $10K to do this work the way it needs to be done so that this newest truck for me, and likely the last iteration of a true 5.7 HEMI that will be available moving forward on a factory level, lasts a long time.

I'll run it to near drivetrain warranty expiration and milk every ounce of factory warranty availability to me... and then invest the $10K to do it all right....

Then purchase a used work vehicle at that point so I can continue on with my career duties and save my Warlock for my daughter so she has a real V8 HEMI for when she's ready to drive.
 
OP
OP
W

Wild one

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
14,342
Reaction score
25,093
Ram Year
14 Sport
Engine
5.7
I'm willing to bet this week's paycheck the solenoids still there.
I didn't buy the plugs & I'm sure Petty's didn't give them to me for free.

From the videos I have seen they pretty much break off trying to remove.
They are prone to breaking,lol.The old wood screw turned into them trick does help with removing the solenoids,if you decide to pull them.
I'm still surprised that Petty's Garage never said anything though,as very few hi-po shops leave the solenoids in place when they do a non-mds cam/lifter swap
 

CanuckRam1313

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2022
Posts
1,258
Reaction score
2,737
Location
Ontario Canada
Ram Year
2023 Warlock SLT
Engine
5.7
Spend about 16 minutes watching Reigniteds video,it explains it pretty well,and you can draw your own conclusions from it.
Disabling it at the wheel,definitely isn't doing your lifters any good though.

^^^^^ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!
 

CanuckRam1313

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2022
Posts
1,258
Reaction score
2,737
Location
Ontario Canada
Ram Year
2023 Warlock SLT
Engine
5.7
You're just determined to make me get off my lazy ass and do some of my own research aren't you Rick?:hahano:

I'm not as familiar with how the MDS lifters operate as I need to be for this discussion. My understanding of how they work is oil pressure does activate/deactivate them, but the oil used for that is not part of the lubrication system for those lifters. And they are instead lubricated in the same manner as the non-MDS lifters. That's an important detail to understand. If they did indeed design it so that the only lubrication MDS lifters receive comes from the oil used to enable/disable them (besides what's splashed up from the crank), it's definitely a huge oversight on the part of the Hemi engine design team, as the amount of time that MDS is disabled can be significant even if you don't manually disable it.

I'd like to see the design docs for these lifters. No disrespect to anyone who has made videos or published articles about them. Where I work we believe in the expression, in god we trust; all others must bring data.
I thought all others had to pay cash!
Jesse taught me that... and had "Pay Up Sucka" tattooed on his had to accept payments ;)
 

Daw14

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Posts
2,157
Reaction score
2,309
Ram Year
2014
Engine
5.7 hemi
I apologize for my buddy Bmag guys,he seems to be on a slander path again.
Not much i can do about it,but i do appreciate the love he gives me ,makes me feel all warm and fuzzy:waytogo: :Big Laugh:
Maybe a not so secret “secret crush” going on there.
 

mikeru

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Posts
2,990
Reaction score
4,224
Location
The Palouse
Ram Year
2020 Limited
Engine
Hemi 5.7L non-Etorque
That's all i'm trying to do Mike is help educate guys,and if they want to do more research,and find out more about the system,that makes my day even better.The more knowledge we have,the better we can understand the pitfalls of the hemi. I'm hoping other guys also do some research and also post their findings here
Reigniteds video explains it better then MMX's article does,and is worth spending the 16 minutes it takes to watch.
Yeah I'm planning to watch that over the weekend. They frown on us streaming non work related content to our work computers. :D
 
OP
OP
W

Wild one

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
14,342
Reaction score
25,093
Ram Year
14 Sport
Engine
5.7
I couldn't agree with you more, Brother!
Knowledge is a very powerful thing!!

Nor do I disagree that the merit of technical proof is inherently present that merely disabling MDS on our 5.7 HEMI's (and others) could potentially cause failures.

I for one appreciate that you advocate for the technically proven merits of why one should NOT merely disable ones MDS via a gear selector and/or tune.

But instead, do it properly via non-MDS lifters, plugs, (non-MDS cam is also the real way to go), and then tune ones engine properly afterwards....

Perhaps, for my circumstance only... I may go this route and invest the $10K to do this work the way it needs to be done so that this newest truck for me, and likely the last iteration of a true 5.7 HEMI that will be available moving forward on a factory level, lasts a long time.

I'll run it to near drivetrain warranty expiration and milk every ounce of factory warranty availability to me... and then invest the $10K to do it all right....

Then purchase a used work vehicle at that point so I can continue on with my career duties and save my Warlock for my daughter so she has a real V8 HEMI for when she's ready to drive.
It set me back about 4G Canuck when i did my cam,that included using Ma Mopars hi-po 625 lift springs / Trend pushrods/ Jays cam / new Hellcat lifters /gaskets/fluids /new ARP head bolts / Roger Stanke's billet MDS block off plugs/ new OEM intake gaskets etc.,but that's going on close to 10 years ago now,and we did it in Charonblks shop,so labour costs weren't an issue.
I have no idea what it'd cost now though,as prices since then have definitely sky rocketed. I did it when the truck was basically new and had less then 12,000 kilometers on it,so i didn't have to replace any of the timing components at the time,we never even removed the chain off the lower gear,or pulled the oil pump
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
W

Wild one

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
14,342
Reaction score
25,093
Ram Year
14 Sport
Engine
5.7
Yeah I'm planning to watch that over the weekend. They frown on us streaming non work related content to our work computers. :D
Reminds me of high school when the new Hot Rod mags hit the stands,and you were trying to read them,while using a school book to hide the mag from the teacher :Big Laugh:
 

La Ramie

Member
Joined
May 28, 2021
Posts
91
Reaction score
43
Location
Universe
Ram Year
2013
Engine
5.7
I thought deactivating the MDS via a tune is more or less like using the MDS solenoid plug.
 
Top