Fuel pump, or relay (TIPM) problem, how to tell?

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GTXJosh

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2009 1500 5.7. Ok, so went to start leaving a store and cranks great, a little stutter, but doesn't stay running. Whatever it is that tells the starter to keep cranking until it starts sometimes keeps cranking, and sometimes stops, and it stutters for a few seconds at 500 rpm or so and then dies.

In a parking lot so hard to listen for fuel pump, but that was my first suspicion. I happen to have scanner with me, and no codes at all. Tried to see if I could pull a code after a few different start tries.

Anyhow, ended up getting to towed to a shop rather than home. And now I am reading up on possible issues. Similar threads seem the same, with not much of an answer.

Does the little stutter kind of almost running mean that it is the fuel pump no supply the pressure needed. I just kinda assumed since the TIPM has the relay, that it either works or it doesn't, but now not so sure. I have watched and read about a bypass that can be done for a remote relay (which ultimately seems like a good update/fix when needed, so the $5 relay can be replaced via a simple plug like any other car)

So again, it is at a shop, they may have time before the holiday weekend to at least try and look at the problem. But I'm likely going to contact them to see if they can provide 12v power directly to the pump if that is easy, before having the pump replaced. I don't have the resources or space to do the pump replacement at this time, but could do a wiring bypass if that is all that is needed.

This is kinda rambling, but my thinking is that if it is getting a little tiny bit of fuel, then the pump may just be giving pressure then finding the bind up spot, similar to how a starter will stick in that bad spot and not work.

Thanks for any help. Truck already has 35s with a 4" lift, so I know that works :)
 
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GTXJosh

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Also, I have continued to search, but it appears mopar part CBWPR091AA which is the bypass relay kit from the factory is no longer available. It was listed for other non-RAM models, but same TIPM, so would have worked. Instructions for it here based off a durango and grand Cherokee https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2015/RCRIT-15V115-2720.pdf

There is a short bypass that appears to just go in the top of the fuse box, which could be a temp fix, but if this was my issue, I'd want to wire up a relay rather than just the jumper style found here https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Hold...9549&sprefix=cbwpr091aa+mopar,aps,124&sr=8-35
 

GTyankee

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I was going to suggest a fuse bypass

I have seen YouTube videos that show where to buy them, how to install them. etc.


 
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GTXJosh

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Thanks. The shop it is at is busy enough they may not even look at it today. And I’ve Amazon ordered one of those bypass cables. They all lost 2011-13 and trying to figure out if that is because it may not fit into my 2009 fuse box because of possible fuse arrangements or what. I should have taken a picture to be sure.

I’m going to call the shop I guess and ask them to check for 12v power at the fuse box for the pump and at the wire connector at the pump before going any further. I guess if there is power at both those points it is very likely it is in fact the pump. If no power at either of those then relay and a bypass should work, or other wiring issues.

Could have figured a bit more of this out myself, but had no tools with me in this parking lot and needed to figure out where to tow to.

Since it had no code shown makes me wonder why there would be no “fuel pump relay not active and/or supplying power” code as that would be most useful in this case. ‍♂️
 
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GTXJosh

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Ok a little more searching this morning as to why those bypass kits all start listing at 2011.

It appears the 2009-2010 (lucky me I have a 2009) arranged the fuse power to before the relay rather than fuse after. What that means is that if it is the relay that is a problem the fuse bypass will not work like newer models.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W99BFYir3Yg

Here’s hope that I have power at the pump now and the relay is not the problem
 

62Blazer

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To be honest you are jumping ahead on the issue a little. You basically skipped verifying exactly what the issue is to start out with and went straight into thinking you need to repair a certain component. A decent shop will start out with diagnostics to verify what the issue is versus opening fire with the parts cannon and start throwing random new components on it and hope they get lucky.....and don't take this wrong, but if the shop is too busy to "look at it" why would they have time to throw random parts at it based on the customer request? That's kinda' like going to the doctor's office and telling them what your illness is and then telling the doctor how they should treat it.
In any case, the first step would be installing a fuel pressure gauge and verifying the pressure with the pump running and when trying to start the engine. This is a very easy and quick test for a half-way competent shop and will at least tell you if the issue is related to the fuel pressure. If the fuel pressure is low the next step is a relatively easy test to verify the ECM and TIPM are supplying the correct voltage signal to the pump. If that voltage signal is not correct going to the pump then you can start looking at the TIPM, but also make sure it's just not a rubbed through wire or corrosion.
 
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GTXJosh

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Thanks. Yes. That is the process they are going to go into. Just as I would if I were to do it at home. This shop rebuilt the engine on my wife’s car a few years back. Owner said exactly what you said, and what I would do as well. Check for pressure. Check for power.

I just had read a bit about the tipm being a possible issue. Then in further reading the $12 bypass doesn’t work on 2009-2010 models, so learning a bit of the difference as I go. And posting up what I find for the next person.

I had nothing in the parking lot to check a thing other than the code reader in the glovebox and no code. 100 degrees hot and two of my younger kids with me, so sent it to a shop rather than try and mess with it at home and then a second tow to a shop potentially.

I’m 90% it is fuel delivery related. So just gathering info here before deciding what I may want to tackle on my own if anything. I have - couple days why not research.

Which currently leads me to replacement pumps if that is what is needed. Napa lists a couple a Delphi and one their own brand. Autozone lists the Delphi branded one as well ($50 more than Napa). And there is oem options. OEM is $250is up to $500 depending in rock auto or local dealers for source.

If, and I’m not jumping to conclusions or anything here, just if it is a fuel pump issue, is oem the only quality one out there. Kinda don’t want to have this happen anytime soon again if possible and will always spend a bit more on a part of it will generally last. Always oem sensors to avoid potential bad readings, but honestly I’ve never had to do a fuel pump in tank like newer cars have. Just older carburetor based cars with a mechanical engine driven pump super simple kinda stuff

Thanks for those that share their experience and maybe advise on a oem or aftermarket brand being good or bad for longevity
 

Jeepwalker

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The Delphi is probably fine, and I haven't had to replace my truck's fuel pump. You could do a forum search. Essentially it's just like most parts: if you want a no-headache repair where you know the part will fit perfect, fuel gauge will work like it should, has a greater chance of a longer life, you can hardly ever go wrong with OEM quality and fit. I myself usually buy OEM unless the part is way more expensive. For the extra hundred or so bucks, that might be the way to go. If funds are tight and you don't know how long you will keep it, the Delphi should work ok. I put a Delphi in my old Jeep XJ a couple years ago (no oem was avail). The reviews were good on the xj forum. Regardless, it's been working fine. Only been a couple years. Unfortunately that kind of one-off assessment really doesn't mean much. I didn't have any fitment issues.

If you can keep 1/4 a tank or more fuel in your truck's tank, most of the time, proportedly it helps cool the fuel pump and helps prevent an earlier pump demise. It makes sense the pump being on the bottom of the assembly.

If you are lucky, a new pump will do the trick and it'll be a quick, clean, and done, repair.
 
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GTXJosh

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Ended up being the pump. No start. No pump noise. Manually spray in fuel and runs. Confirmed no pump noise. Hit tank works. Pull pump. Confirm power as needed back there. Replace pump. Oem pump. Quality shop doesn’t mess around always like dealing with them because they generally suggest exactly the way I’d go at it.

With it being so quick, they just pulled the bed on the lift and didn’t charge the normal 1hr diagnosis time so saved $120 there. In the end I stopped in today because it was the day they said they might get to it if another customer engine was in (this is an engine rebuild shop that also has a few guys who will do generic non-full replacement things) so time open up. I stopped at their lunch break time as owner had phone in his hand to call me but someone was lost asking for google map directions for a while. We all laughed a bit about that. And he said it just got up in the left before guys went to lunch.

I took a couple kids to fast food, and next stop at a store had a call it was done I’d say a couple hours later so about 1.5-2hrs max from when they had it up. Starts right up. Throttle response seems a little smoother off idle so maybe it has been going for a while ‍♂️ I’m happy it is back and at under 180k miles on a 13 year old truck not a totally unexpected replacement item

Thanks for your comment on brand. I think the xj is similar to my zj design and I’ve been lucky so far in that my 94 hasn’t needed a replacement yet. Alway keep it from getting low too. I know those are a drop the tank for where it is. I always keep fuel pretty full in there but lately around half since I don’t drive it as much. 1/4 tank is empty as far as I am concerned in any vehicle
 

Ray Baumgarte

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I had that problem with my 2007. I stopped at a red light and it died - no restart. Had it towed to the shop (dealer) and ended up replacing the TIPM and the fuel pump at the same time. $900 for the TIPM, $300+ for fuel pump, and labor. I think I got out of there with about a $1600 bill. The relay was a built in and not replicable except for replacing the TIPM.
I also found online that bypass harness, only too late for me. 143K+ still running good. Tomorrow it gets a new water pump.
 
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