Gas vs. Diesel, 3.73 vs. 4.10, 2500 vs. 3500

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Farmer Fran

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Funny reading this, as we did the opposite. We went smaller trailer to retire in. For a multitude of reasons. But in your case i would certainly go 3500 sw diesel.
 
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CoRamGuy

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Thank you all for taking the time to respond. Truly appreciated. At this point I'm leaning towards the 3500 Bighorn Diesel Crew Cab 4x4 Long bed with 50 gal tank. That said, while I didn't specifically ask for input, I'm surprised that nobody commented on the fact that I plan to also use this vehicle as my daily driver with a relatively short commute to work. Seems to me that I might run into issues with the DPF system down the road if I rarely get the Cummins engine up to temp. This is a topic that I've also seen beaten to death in other threads with a lot on conflicting information. In fact, I've specifically reached out to the local dealerships for the "big 3" and spoken directly with their diesel service technicians and I still can't get a straight answer. The responses I've heard range from "You won't have a problem and the regen cycle will occur on every trip" to "Go with Gasoline otherwise you'll be in the service department every 3 months with DPF issues". So what's correct? This should be an area of fact... not opinion. If the majority of my driving will be 10 miles one way back and forth to work in slower moving traffic and only getting out and towing about once a month, will I run into issues with the DPF? What can I do to avoid it? For this question, I'm only looking for Diesel owners with hard practical real life experiences to reply. Perhaps I should start another thread?
 

Firebird

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Thank you all for taking the time to respond. Truly appreciated. At this point I'm leaning towards the 3500 Bighorn Diesel Crew Cab 4x4 Long bed with 50 gal tank. That said, while I didn't specifically ask for input, I'm surprised that nobody commented on the fact that I plan to also use this vehicle as my daily driver with a relatively short commute to work. Seems to me that I might run into issues with the DPF system down the road if I rarely get the Cummins engine up to temp. This is a topic that I've also seen beaten to death in other threads with a lot on conflicting information. In fact, I've specifically reached out to the local dealerships for the "big 3" and spoken directly with their diesel service technicians and I still can't get a straight answer. The responses I've heard range from "You won't have a problem and the regen cycle will occur on every trip" to "Go with Gasoline otherwise you'll be in the service department every 3 months with DPF issues". So what's correct? This should be an area of fact... not opinion. If the majority of my driving will be 10 miles one way back and forth to work in slower moving traffic and only getting out and towing about once a month, will I run into issues with the DPF? What can I do to avoid it? For this question, I'm only looking for Diesel owners with hard practical real life experiences to reply. Perhaps I should start another thread?
You most certainly can have issues with in town driving. Will you for sure have issues, not necessarily, but can you? Definitely
 

Farmer Fran

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Thank you all for taking the time to respond. Truly appreciated. At this point I'm leaning towards the 3500 Bighorn Diesel Crew Cab 4x4 Long bed with 50 gal tank. That said, while I didn't specifically ask for input, I'm surprised that nobody commented on the fact that I plan to also use this vehicle as my daily driver with a relatively short commute to work. Seems to me that I might run into issues with the DPF system down the road if I rarely get the Cummins engine up to temp. This is a topic that I've also seen beaten to death in other threads with a lot on conflicting information. In fact, I've specifically reached out to the local dealerships for the "big 3" and spoken directly with their diesel service technicians and I still can't get a straight answer. The responses I've heard range from "You won't have a problem and the regen cycle will occur on every trip" to "Go with Gasoline otherwise you'll be in the service department every 3 months with DPF issues". So what's correct? This should be an area of fact... not opinion. If the majority of my driving will be 10 miles one way back and forth to work in slower moving traffic and only getting out and towing about once a month, will I run into issues with the DPF? What can I do to avoid it? For this question, I'm only looking for Diesel owners with hard practical real life experiences to reply. Perhaps I should start another thread?
Let me ask you, why do you need a 10000+lb trailer to cruise around the USA with 2 people?
 

Gort

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FWIW, my neighbor pulls a 36' (IIRC) fifth-wheel with a 6.4L 2500 w/3.73:1 gears. He says that it does really well -- but that's in the northeast where our "mountains" are what the folks in Colorado probably call "speed bumps". We do have some significant grades, but probably not nearly as many or as long as you do in the Rockies.
 

man n black

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We live in Colorado (Steamboat) and pull a Cougar 31RLT. Don't let the name fool you..its really 35 feet. Ours is a bumper pull so YMMV here.

For pulling a trailer of any significant weight go with the Cummins all the way. Especially towing in the mountains. We have towed our 10k trailer (loaded) all over the Rockies / Sierra Nevada / Oregon, / Washington, / east and west Canada / Montana / Idaho / Dakotas / Utah / Nevada and all over down South too with our 2013 2500 Laramie CC Cummins 4x4. Don't pass on the heated seats..they are a godsend on long stints driving.

We have never had a problem with the Cummins engine or auto transmission, even running on 37 inch tires and 3.27 gears. Never have had not enough horsepower or torque. Never a problem on long downgrades with the OEM exhaust brake and OEM trailer brake controller. At OP, DM me if you want to discuss further.
 

Farmer Fran

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Maybe BC thats what they want? Who are we to down play how someone wants to travel just bc its not our style. This is America isn't it? Land of the free? Home of the brave?
Whoa take it easy, it was a legit question and one he answered.
 

81SHOVELHEAD

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Ok... I've seen separate discussions o these issues but can't find one where all are combined or that fit my specific circumstances. I'm hoping to come across some new pearls of wisdom to help me decide which way to go because I'm honestly stuck at this point. The only good thing is that my options are completely open at this time... probably why I'm stuck. LOL. I'm 56 and my wife is 54 and we live in Colorado. We've been towing a 2K lb. popup for a few years with a SUV. We know that the RV life is for us and we're looking to upgrade into a 5th wheel to take us into our retirement years and beyond. The 5th wheels we're looking at are the "Half Ton Towables" from Jayco/Eagle HT, Keystone/Cougar and Grand Design/Reflection. Dry Hitch Weights are between 1400-1800 lbs. and Towing Weights range from 11K-15K lbs. Despite how the RV companies market their products we know we can't get away with a half ton truck and we're looking mainly at the 2500 but also potentially 3500. I also don't want to be maxing out the trucks rated capabilities. This will be my first truck, but after doing the research and multiple testdrives I've settled on RAM. That said, the issues I'm stuck on are transferrable to a Chevy or Ford discussion as well. Based on our lifestyle today, the truck we purchase would be my daily driver back and forth to work and I would switch off with my wife from month to month so she gets accustom to driving it as well. Daily Mileage would only be 15-25 miles. The RV would only be pulled 10-12 times per year and within 2-4 hrs max from home base at least to start. As we approach our retirement years and beyond we're going to want to branch out, go further distances and take longer duration trips. Once retired, we envision seeing the entire country and driving long distances, dropping the 5th wheel in place for a month at a time and then using the truck to take day trips. This probably won't be the last vehicle I purchase, but I do want to keep it for 10-15 yrs and it will been to fit the long term lifestyle I just laid out.
I'm looking at the 2021 Rams but know by the time I make a decision I'll be into the 2022s. Big Horn Crew Cab 4X4 is what I've settled on and if fully loaded I can get everything I want... don't need the leather or heated rear seats that the Laramie offers. I'm not opposed to spending the extra cash on Diesel but would not get the HO if I move into the 3500.

So, here are my questions...
Gas or Diesel? In the 2500, if I go Diesel I'm sacrificing significant payload but gaining towing capacity and I understand the discussion around Diesel being best in the mountains
If Gas... 3.73 or 4.10 gearing? Going Gas would be giving me the additional payload and 4.10 gearing additional towing, but it seems it will be rough on the MPG
Short or long bed? 8' Bed is slightly better payload and I like the idea of a 50 gal tank but I'm afraid it will be too much truck for my wife and she wont want to drive it
Do I move into a 3500? A 3500 Diesel will squash all my concerns around payload or capacity but the leaf spring suspension will be rough as a daily driver

If I were to rank how I'm leaning, it would be...
1. 2500 Diesel Crew Cab Short Bed
2. 2500 Gas Crew Cab with 4.10 Gearing
3. 2500 Gas Crew Cab, 4.10 Gearing, Long Bed, 50 gal tank
4. 2500 Diesel, long bed, 50 gal tank
5. 3500 Diesel, no HO, no Dually

Any thoughts? I'm looking for input from the pros that have been doing this for a while. I've also heard it said in other discussions "I've met plenty of gassers that wish the went Diesel, but never the other way around"... so I'm also looking for the gassers in this forum to speak up and be honest about their decision.
Thanks all!
Have a 2015 2500 Hemi Ram rated to tow 12,850 with a payload of 3130 with the 6.5 bed. No issues towing our 2021 295RL Montana High Country 5th wheel. 34 ft . 11,300 empty weight & 2300 lb pin weight. Average 8.5 to 10.5 hand calculated mpg depending on headwinds. Truck has 373 gears.
 

man n black

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Whoa take it easy, it was a legit question and one he answered.
IMHO it's absolutely NOT a legit question. It's none of our business to ask a criticizing question about what anybody wants or thinks they want to do in whatever and your critical question of if the OP needed a 10k lbs trailer brought absolutely ZERO to the OPs discussion question of what engine he should spec on his likely Ram 2500 purchase to reliably pull said trailer.
 

Farmer Fran

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IMHO it's absolutely NOT a legit question. It's none of our business to ask a criticizing question about what anybody wants or thinks they want to do in whatever and your critical question of if the OP needed a 10k lbs trailer brought absolutely ZERO to the OPs discussion question of what engine he should spec on his likely Ram 2500 purchase to reliably pull said trailer.
Roger that, I will check out. Have a great day.
 

retired

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IMHO it's absolutely NOT a legit question. It's none of our business to ask a criticizing question about what anybody wants or thinks they want to do in whatever and your critical question of if the OP needed a 10k lbs trailer brought absolutely ZERO to the OPs discussion question of what engine he should spec on his likely Ram 2500 purchase to reliably pull said trailer.
I thought it was legit. If you think that is being critical you got problems lol.
 

ramffml

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I didn't necessarily see a problem with the question, but yes it can be extremely annoying to ask a question and have people wonder why you want to do it (very common in my line of work where we learn a lot using forums). Just answer the question, or don't.

I think part of the problem in this specific case was how it was phrased; "Let me ask you, why do you need a 10000+lb trailer to cruise around the USA with 2 people?" which can be interpreted as being a judgemental question; the judgement being, there is only 2 of you so get a smaller trailer. It may not have been intended to be judgemental, but it can definitely be interpreted that way.
 

Cactusmonkey

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I wish you the best of luck with deciding on the truck. If you should choose a short bed then by all means put the slider hitch in the bed. I don't know how long it will be before you retire and will be doing more travelling but the real concern will be the RV you choose. Most RV's are good for about 10 years. I have never kept one that long but know many people who have. Also this will be your first 5th wheel so the chances of picking the perfect one, first time may be slim. The truck will go deep into your retirement but not sure the RV will. You are looking at some good brands for sure but you may also want to check out the Artic Fox and Outdoors RV if you haven't already. Good luck and I hope you enjoy retirement as much as we have.
 

BossHogg

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Ok... I've seen separate discussions o these issues but can't find one where all are combined or that fit my specific circumstances. I'm hoping to come across some new pearls of wisdom to help me decide which way to go because I'm honestly stuck at this point. The only good thing is that my options are completely open at this time... probably why I'm stuck. LOL. I'm 56 and my wife is 54 and we live in Colorado. We've been towing a 2K lb. popup for a few years with a SUV. We know that the RV life is for us and we're looking to upgrade into a 5th wheel to take us into our retirement years and beyond. The 5th wheels we're looking at are the "Half Ton Towables" from Jayco/Eagle HT, Keystone/Cougar and Grand Design/Reflection. Dry Hitch Weights are between 1400-1800 lbs. and Towing Weights range from 11K-15K lbs. Despite how the RV companies market their products we know we can't get away with a half ton truck and we're looking mainly at the 2500 but also potentially 3500. I also don't want to be maxing out the trucks rated capabilities. This will be my first truck, but after doing the research and multiple testdrives I've settled on RAM. That said, the issues I'm stuck on are transferrable to a Chevy or Ford discussion as well. Based on our lifestyle today, the truck we purchase would be my daily driver back and forth to work and I would switch off with my wife from month to month so she gets accustom to driving it as well. Daily Mileage would only be 15-25 miles. The RV would only be pulled 10-12 times per year and within 2-4 hrs max from home base at least to start. As we approach our retirement years and beyond we're going to want to branch out, go further distances and take longer duration trips. Once retired, we envision seeing the entire country and driving long distances, dropping the 5th wheel in place for a month at a time and then using the truck to take day trips. This probably won't be the last vehicle I purchase, but I do want to keep it for 10-15 yrs and it will been to fit the long term lifestyle I just laid out.
I'm looking at the 2021 Rams but know by the time I make a decision I'll be into the 2022s. Big Horn Crew Cab 4X4 is what I've settled on and if fully loaded I can get everything I want... don't need the leather or heated rear seats that the Laramie offers. I'm not opposed to spending the extra cash on Diesel but would not get the HO if I move into the 3500.

So, here are my questions...
Gas or Diesel? In the 2500, if I go Diesel I'm sacrificing significant payload but gaining towing capacity and I understand the discussion around Diesel being best in the mountains
If Gas... 3.73 or 4.10 gearing? Going Gas would be giving me the additional payload and 4.10 gearing additional towing, but it seems it will be rough on the MPG
Short or long bed? 8' Bed is slightly better payload and I like the idea of a 50 gal tank but I'm afraid it will be too much truck for my wife and she wont want to drive it
Do I move into a 3500? A 3500 Diesel will squash all my concerns around payload or capacity but the leaf spring suspension will be rough as a daily driver

If I were to rank how I'm leaning, it would be...
1. 2500 Diesel Crew Cab Short Bed
2. 2500 Gas Crew Cab with 4.10 Gearing
3. 2500 Gas Crew Cab, 4.10 Gearing, Long Bed, 50 gal tank
4. 2500 Diesel, long bed, 50 gal tank
5. 3500 Diesel, no HO, no Dually

Any thoughts? I'm looking for input from the pros that have been doing this for a while. I've also heard it said in other discussions "I've met plenty of gassers that wish the went Diesel, but never the other way around"... so I'm also looking for the gassers in this forum to speak up and be honest about their decision.
Thanks all!
I'm doing now what you will be doing. I started acquiring my tow vehicle and fiver in 2015, retired in 2017, and been everywhere. This is what I did and what I would do differently.

The first thing my wife and I did was visit campgrounds and talk to campers about tow vehicles, campers, and dealers. That was quite an education.

Next, we purchased a fifth wheel. I went with a quality brand that has a rep for being well built since it was going to be pulled a lot, I didn't want an occasional use fiver. Yes, this is how they are rated.

Now that I had a fiver, I matched a tow vehicle that was comfortable with the size of the fiver, payload, and tow numbers.

After four travel seasons and closing off on 7 camping seasons, I think the groundwork I did paid off.

The only mistake I made was not getting a full-length bed. As mentioned in this thread, a short box fifth wheel cab will hit your truck's cab. I later added a sliding fifth-wheel hitch to solve the problem.

Here is what I ended up with. A Montana 3790 fifth wheel, a RAM 3500 Cummings with single rear wheels and standard output. I've got the Longhorn trim, the upgraded seating was well worth it after six-plus hours in the saddle.

Good lunch with your choices.
 

Bearcatrp

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Yep, had a 2017 3/4 ton Ram short box. After 3 close calls almost taking out my back window, I took advantage of the sweet deals on trade ins and bought a 2021 long bed Ram 3500. Couldn’t justify the extra expenses of a diesel. $600 plus a pop for oil change and filters change every 15000 killed me getting a diesel. A 6.4 with 8 speed should surfice for towing 6-7 times a years for my 35 foot 10,000 lb 5th wheel. Looked into a slider but after towing through the passes in Montana with a 6 speed and a 6.4 gas engine, would never do that again. Nice thing about long beds, has a 50 gallon tank.
 

BossHogg

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Yep, had a 2017 3/4 ton Ram short box. After 3 close calls almost taking out my back window, I took advantage of the sweet deals on trade ins and bought a 2021 long bed Ram 3500. Couldn’t justify the extra expenses of a diesel. $600 plus a pop for oil change and filters change every 15000 killed me getting a diesel. A 6.4 with 8 speed should surfice for towing 6-7 times a years for my 35 foot 10,000 lb 5th wheel. Looked into a slider but after towing through the passes in Montana with a 6 speed and a 6.4 gas engine, would never do that again. Nice thing about long beds, has a 50 gallon tank.
$600 + for an oil change, I got a deal for you, I'll do it for $500 and include the fuel filters at no extra charge. That will give me about a $330 profit for an hour's work.
 

Firebird

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Dealer always charged me $500 for the oil change and filters, used to **** me off
 

Riccochet

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For the cummins dealers charge $150 for the oil, $180 for the 3 filters and 2 hours labor. So, yeah, $600.

Always cheaper to do it yourself. But, most people don't want to do it themselves, or have the time/tools to do it themselves.
 

Irishthreeper

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Ok... I've seen separate discussions o these issues but can't find one where all are combined or that fit my specific circumstances. I'm hoping to come across some new pearls of wisdom to help me decide which way to go because I'm honestly stuck at this point. The only good thing is that my options are completely open at this time... probably why I'm stuck. LOL. I'm 56 and my wife is 54 and we live in Colorado. We've been towing a 2K lb. popup for a few years with a SUV. We know that the RV life is for us and we're looking to upgrade into a 5th wheel to take us into our retirement years and beyond. The 5th wheels we're looking at are the "Half Ton Towables" from Jayco/Eagle HT, Keystone/Cougar and Grand Design/Reflection. Dry Hitch Weights are between 1400-1800 lbs. and Towing Weights range from 11K-15K lbs. Despite how the RV companies market their products we know we can't get away with a half ton truck and we're looking mainly at the 2500 but also potentially 3500. I also don't want to be maxing out the trucks rated capabilities. This will be my first truck, but after doing the research and multiple testdrives I've settled on RAM. That said, the issues I'm stuck on are transferrable to a Chevy or Ford discussion as well. Based on our lifestyle today, the truck we purchase would be my daily driver back and forth to work and I would switch off with my wife from month to month so she gets accustom to driving it as well. Daily Mileage would only be 15-25 miles. The RV would only be pulled 10-12 times per year and within 2-4 hrs max from home base at least to start. As we approach our retirement years and beyond we're going to want to branch out, go further distances and take longer duration trips. Once retired, we envision seeing the entire country and driving long distances, dropping the 5th wheel in place for a month at a time and then using the truck to take day trips. This probably won't be the last vehicle I purchase, but I do want to keep it for 10-15 yrs and it will been to fit the long term lifestyle I just laid out.
I'm looking at the 2021 Rams but know by the time I make a decision I'll be into the 2022s. Big Horn Crew Cab 4X4 is what I've settled on and if fully loaded I can get everything I want... don't need the leather or heated rear seats that the Laramie offers. I'm not opposed to spending the extra cash on Diesel but would not get the HO if I move into the 3500.

So, here are my questions...
Gas or Diesel? In the 2500, if I go Diesel I'm sacrificing significant payload but gaining towing capacity and I understand the discussion around Diesel being best in the mountains
If Gas... 3.73 or 4.10 gearing? Going Gas would be giving me the additional payload and 4.10 gearing additional towing, but it seems it will be rough on the MPG
Short or long bed? 8' Bed is slightly better payload and I like the idea of a 50 gal tank but I'm afraid it will be too much truck for my wife and she wont want to drive it
Do I move into a 3500? A 3500 Diesel will squash all my concerns around payload or capacity but the leaf spring suspension will be rough as a daily driver

If I were to rank how I'm leaning, it would be...
1. 2500 Diesel Crew Cab Short Bed
2. 2500 Gas Crew Cab with 4.10 Gearing
3. 2500 Gas Crew Cab, 4.10 Gearing, Long Bed, 50 gal tank
4. 2500 Diesel, long bed, 50 gal tank
5. 3500 Diesel, no HO, no Dually

Any thoughts? I'm looking for input from the pros that have been doing this for a while. I've also heard it said in other discussions "I've met plenty of gassers that wish the went Diesel, but never the other way around"... so I'm also looking for the gassers in this forum to speak up and be honest about their decision.
Thanks all!
We just finished a 7,000 mile trip towing a 34 foot fiver, with a 2021 2500 w/6.4 Hemi. The truck has 4.10 gears and came with factory prepped 5th wheel. The RV weighs 8400 dry and has a hitch weight of 1250. My Ram performed extremely well- strong, stable and reliable. In South Dakota during long climbs with a head wind she wanted to crank up to almost 4K rpm to maintain speed but those times weren’t frequent. Mileage was about what you would expect, with an average of 9.5-10 mpg. I’m glad I have the 4.10’s and glad I didn’t spend another $9k on the diesel, to be honest. The extra torque would have been nice a few times but the added cost for maintenance, fuel cost and huge loss in payload simply weren’t worth it for me. If you are looking at a very large and heavy fiver the Cummins might be needed but keep an eye on hitch weight since the diesel payload is only 2400 lbs.
All that said, a few general comments:
- gas is VERY expensive out west. The worst case was $4.19 at a Flying J on I15 in Utah
- Most gas stations in higher elevations have gas ratings at 85 or 86 octane. It was cheaper but I would not use it
- Too many people are towing RV’s too fast, like 75-80. It doesn’t matter that your truck can do that, it’s a matter of not being able to respond to the unexpected or other drivers’ stupidity. Slow down!

I hope this helped a little.
 
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